A Brighter Summer Day (1991)

[Ray Jackson]

Am I the only who thinks it would've been better with a score?

...original music is quite often the most effective way of infusing a slow-moving story with emotion and energy.

[llj]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

Am I the only who thinks it would've been better with a score?

...original music is quite often the most effective way of infusing a slow-moving story with emotion and energy.

Well, it would just be odd for a Yang film to have a drowning score.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by llj

Well, it would just be odd for a Yang film to have a drowning score.

Doesn't have to be drowning or over-the-top Hans Zimmeresque.

Wim Wenders' Alice In The Cities has this little, understated acoustic guitar theme that plays at various points throughout the film.

...and it really makes all the difference imo.

Would be a different film without that guitar music.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by llj

I sense this film is destined to become the underrated one in Yang's oeuvre as more people voice their displeasure at its flaws. I think it's just a great film, warts and all.

I believe most people consider ABSD to be Yang's masterpiece.

[llj]

Originally Posted by Fabs

I believe most people consider ABSD to be Yang's masterpiece.

Most *critics*. And that's before it was even released in the U.S. for the first time on a home format. But I'm getting a lot of people lately complaining about how it doesn't measure up to YiYi or the Terrorizers. Not just here, but on twitter and other film forums.

[Ray Jackson]

I finished this last night.

The

[Show spoiler]killing of Ming at the end was definitely a surprise. I did not see that coming. Why do you think he did it?

And why was Ming such a promiscuous you-know-what?

[DVD Phreak]

I just watched this and LOVED it. To those who think this is another one of those slow, artsy, dragged on, nothing-going-on dramas, I say this: You know the proverbial phrase "you miss the boat?" Well, you guys miss the HARBOR.

The film's pace is nothing remotely resembling slow, because the plot moves swiftly from one scene or one shot to another. There is no "hold that thought and let's meditate a while" moment anywhere. Every shot, every line, every moment MOVES the story along. It is simply a LONG story. That DOESN'T make it "slow". The storytelling is not at break-neck speed, but it is not slow either. The plot moves along at a realistic pace because the film depicts REALITY here. The plot never really stops moving, so it does not really "drag". Name me a scene that drags. Name me a scene where the filmmaker protracts the action on the screen just to draw out the moment. Yang clearly intends to depict REALITY here. Every action feels real, the way it would occur in real life. Name me a scene where Yang creates an artificially drawn out moment like the ones in "L'Avventura", or in "The Graduate" when Benjamin runs towards the camera in an agonizingly slow pace, or the many scenes of Benjamin driving around with Simon & Garfunkel songs on the soundtrack, stopping the plot dead on its track? I'm not criticizing "The Graduate" or "L'Avventura here, because I love those drawn-out moments. It's just that we have to be clear that "A Brighter Summer Day" DOES NOT DRAG. It's sad that just because the film is long, some of you think it MUST drag without carefully looking at the evidence. And to an earlier poster's point, Yang DOES add music, in the form of the many Western songs sung by the characters in the film. And note that all the song sequences are not just nice noise on the soundtrack, but they have "story points" in them. So there you have it: The film isn't slow, doesn't drag, and has plenty going on. If anyone differs, please show me the evidence.

In other words, I think "A Brighter Summer Day" is PACKED with a plot-rich story that, under Yang's masterful hand, plays out in engaging and entertaining ways. And I intend to watch it again soon.

[DVD Phreak]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

I finished this last night.

The

[Show spoiler]killing of Ming at the end was definitely a surprise. I did not see that coming. Why do you think he did it?

And why was Ming such a promiscuous you-know-what?

If you know the film's Chinese title, then it wasn't a surprise. Ming's behavior was seen as

[Show spoiler]positive and progressive because, as she told Si'r, she went from guy to guy because she didn't like how all the guys tried to change her. And that was really the whole point of the film. Some people are drawn towards positive things and try to get away from negative things, while some people are the opposite.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by DVD Phreak

I just watched this and LOVED it. To those who think this is another one of those slow, artsy, dragged on, nothing-going-on dramas, I say this: You know the proverbial phrase "you miss the boat?" Well, you guys miss the HARBOR.

[Show spoiler]
The film's pace is nothing remotely resembling slow, because the plot moves swiftly from one scene or one shot to another. There is no "hold that thought and let's meditate a while" moment anywhere. Every shot, every line, every moment MOVES the story along. It is simply a LONG story. That DOESN'T make it "slow". The storytelling is not at break-neck speed, but it is not slow either. The plot moves along at a realistic pace because the film depicts REALITY here. The plot never really stops moving, so it does not really "drag". Name me a scene that drags. Name me a scene where the filmmaker protracts the action on the screen just to draw out the moment. Yang clearly intends to depict REALITY here. Every action feels real, the way it would occur in real life. Name me a scene where Yang creates an artificially drawn out moment like the ones in "L'Avventura", or in "The Graduate" when Benjamin runs towards the camera in an agonizingly slow pace, or the many scenes of Benjamin driving around with Simon & Garfunkel songs on the soundtrack, stopping the plot dead on its track? I'm not criticizing "The Graduate" or "L'Avventura here, because I love those drawn-out moments. It's just that we have to be clear that "A Brighter Summer Day" DOES NOT DRAG. It's sad that just because the film is long, some of you think it MUST drag without carefully looking at the evidence. And to an earlier poster's point, Yang DOES add music, in the form of the many Western songs sung by the characters in the film. And note that all the song sequences are not just nice noise on the soundtrack, but they have "story points" in them. So there you have it: The film isn't slow, doesn't drag, and has plenty going on. If anyone differs, please show me the evidence.

In other words, I think "A Brighter Summer Day" is PACKED with a plot-rich story that, under Yang's masterful hand, plays out in engaging and entertaining ways. And I intend to watch it again soon.

I have no interest in trying prove anything to you or anyone else.

To each his own and your take is fine with me.

It felt slow to me because the story was unnecessarily long in my opinion. There's simply no way that this story needed four hours to be told. Very few, if any films truly need four hours to tell a story and this isn't one of them imo. If The Godfather II, a story that unfolds over the course of multiple generations on multiple continents didn't need four hours, then there's no way I'll ever be convinced that A Brighter Summer Day needed four hours.

I'm not going to go back and look for "evidence" of scenes that were too long or could've been cut entirely because that's subjective and quite frankly, there weren't that many scenes that really stood out to me one way or the other. Perhaps it seemed too long because there weren't that many scenes that really struck me as being great scenes in any sense--dialogue, acting, editing or otherwise. Not to mention the fact that there was no musical score, which as I've already said, was a mistake in my opinion. Original music and/or soundtracks provide a film with energy. Especially one of this length.

It's not a bad film and there are some good things in it.

But it simply didn't draw me in the way it's drawn others in.

...and that's how I feel about it.

[malakaheso]

^^It's a film that falls between two stools. It's not really a character driven piece, since we don't get a lot of character development, nor is it particularly successful as an allegory because it's too simplistic. Notice how nobody is able to offer a defense of what the film is really about other than repeat the mantra they read from other journalists that it's a film about the growing pains of Taiwan? That's great and all, but so what? There is nothing universal about it. Great films are capable of finding the universal in the specific. ABSD fails to do that.

I have no problem with long films, even long symbolic ones---Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players is one of my favourite films, it runs at 230 mins, has no score and is ostensibly a film about modern Greece which finds a universal meaning in a culturally specific context--but I felt that ABSD was not compelling enough on any level (story, aesthetics etc) to really grip me. Satantango is twice as long as A Brighter Summer's Day yet it felt so much more interesting. It was the product of a unique, if terminally grim, worldview. ABSD denies us emotional identification while offering very little in return for our efforts. In short, it functions as an 'intellectual film' that encourages a strong level of viewer detachment but it doesn't actually give us any ideas to actually mull over and chew on.

I don't think it's a major work of cinema. It might be a major work of Taiwenese cinema, but I don't believe it is a great work of actual cinema. I also find the Taiwenese New Wave directors to be quite underwhelming in general, but that's just me. I do like Yang though, and ABSD is the worst film of his that I've seen so far.

If people think it's great, that's fine, but just keep in mind that we don't all think it's less of a film than you do because we have short attention spans.

[firstlast]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

I don't think it's a major work of cinema. It might be a major work of Taiwenese cinema, but I don't believe it is a great work of actual cinema. I also find the Taiwenese New Wave directors to be quite underwhelming in general, but that's just me. I do like Yang though, and ABSD is the worst film of his that I've seen so far.

Pretty much agree with all these points. I actively dislike Tsai Ming-liang. However, everything Hou Hsiao-Hsien made from 1985 to 2001 is extraordinary, world class.

[malakaheso]

Hou is a little cold for my taste, but I definitely prefer him to Tsai.

I like two Tsai films, but he is pretty dull really.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

I do like Yang though, and ABSD is the worst film of his that I've seen so far.

If people think it's great, that's fine, but just keep in mind that we don't all think it's less of a film than you do because we have short attention spans.

Everything you said here, I agree with 100%. Yang is one of my favorite directors, but ABSD doesn't have what I've come to love from Yang. The Terrorizers is in my top 5 films of all time, and Yi Yi in my top 15... yet I wouldn't put ABSD in my top 100. It's a good film technically, but seeing as it comes in between those two Yang films I mentioned, I would come to expect something on the same level of photography, but it doesn't. I can't really recall any shots or sequences that I loved or thought beautiful. Also, I didn't feel connected to the characters, like I did in those other two. A lot of the 4 hours, I just sat there with no emotional response.

A lot of this is subjective, but coming as everything I've seen from Yang so far I have loved, I expected some of those similarities in ABSD.

[DVD Phreak]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

If The Godfather II, a story that unfolds over the course of multiple generations on multiple continents didn't need four hours, then there's no way I'll ever be convinced that A Brighter Summer Day needed four hours.

It's not how long a film runs, nor is it how much content a film should have in any given running time. It is whether there is any *wasted* moment in its running time, and neither film does. Every film is entitled to use any amount of running time, provided that it doesn't use its running time wastefully.

After the first few minutes of watching ABSD I thought like you do, believing there had got to be subpar moments somewhere. I kept trying to find any drop-off in quality and I couldn't even find a moment with even a slight drop. The film remains true to itself and maintains the same unique tone throughout: a stark depiction of a fairly nihilistic world through the lens of a dispassionate observer.

[DVD Phreak]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

^^It's a film that falls between two stools. It's not really a character driven piece, since we don't get a lot of character development, nor is it particularly successful as an allegory because it's too simplistic. Notice how nobody is able to offer a defense of what the film is really about other than repeat the mantra they read from other journalists that it's a film about the growing pains of Taiwan? That's great and all, but so what? There is nothing universal about it. Great films are capable of finding the universal in the specific. ABSD fails to do that.

Why must you find labels and criteria for movies? You are quoting journalists yourself when you say films should "find the universal in the specific". A film can be great in any manner the filmmaker wants.

Originally Posted by malakaheso

I have no problem with long films, even long symbolic ones---Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players is one of my favourite films, it runs at 230 mins, has no score and is ostensibly a film about modern Greece which finds a universal meaning in a culturally specific context--but I felt that ABSD was not compelling enough on any level (story, aesthetics etc) to really grip me. Satantango is twice as long as A Brighter Summer's Day yet it felt so much more interesting. It was the product of a unique, if terminally grim, worldview. ABSD denies us emotional identification while offering very little in return for our efforts. In short, it functions as an 'intellectual film' that encourages a strong level of viewer detachment but it doesn't actually give us any ideas to actually mull over and chew on.

I don't think it's a major work of cinema. It might be a major work of Taiwenese cinema, but I don't believe it is a great work of actual cinema. I also find the Taiwenese New Wave directors to be quite underwhelming in general, but that's just me. I do like Yang though, and ABSD is the worst film of his that I've seen so far.

If people think it's great, that's fine, but just keep in mind that we don't all think it's less of a film than you do because we have short attention spans.

I disagree that ABSD has no emotional identification. It just depicts emotion in different ways. It is subdue for a reason, dispassionate for a reason, and looks like cinema verite at times for a reason. As long as it is TRUE TO ITSELF, which it is throughout, and we must admit that *that* is its emotional identity. Would you be more satisfied if there were a scene with two guys walking in a desolate road with the wind blowing debris all around them, complete with tracking camera shot and moody B&W photography? That is simply NOT the identity of ABSD. The film is subdue in order to show the quiet desperation of a world in which the inhabitants have yet to wake up from the nightmarish moral bankruptcy that can transform, seemingly *imperceptibly* (hence the subdue style), a child into a cold, psychotic killer. As in many films, style often *is* the substance, and it is no truer than in ABSD. The film uses the dispassionate perspective very well for this particular subject matter.

[Markgway]

I have The Terrorizers and Yi Yi but haven't watched them yet.

I really didn't like A Brighter Summer Day and so put those at the bottom of the pile.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by DVD Phreak

It's not how long a film runs, nor is it how much content a film should have in any given running time. It is whether there is any *wasted* moment in its running time, and neither film does. Every film is entitled to use any amount of running time, provided that it doesn't use its running time wastefully.

After the first few minutes of watching ABSD I thought like you do, believing there had got to be subpar moments somewhere. I kept trying to find any drop-off in quality and I couldn't even find a moment with even a slight drop. The film remains true to itself and maintains the same unique tone throughout: a stark depiction of a fairly nihilistic world through the lens of a dispassionate observer.

You make some interesting points.

I recently saw The Human Condition for the first time and was blown away by it. If you view it as one film, it's 9 1/2 hours long and I was never bored or underwhelmed at any point.

I just didn't feel the same way watching ABSD.

The only scene in the movie that I can remember thinking was really great was the scene when

[Show spoiler]the Little Park Boys slaughter their rival gang as payback for the murder of Honey.

I like the way he shot that.

Other than that...not many scenes really stood out to me.

That doesn't mean it's not a great film.

...people see things differently.

[DVD Phreak]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

The only scene in the movie that I can remember thinking was really great was the scene when

[Show spoiler]the Little Park Boys slaughter their rival gang as payback for the murder of Honey.

I like the way he shot that.

I would also add the brilliantly edited moment when Si'r smashes his teacher's light bulb with a baseball bat. We don't actually see the act of smashing, but we see the lingering shots of the smashed light bulb and the stunned teachers. Significantly, we don't see the reaction of Si'r's father. Same way with the scene you mentioned: Yang shows you certain things, but not other things. It is this sticking to his guns by Yang that impresses me.

Si'r's father is someone who gives Si'r basically a slap on the wrist when he repeatedly gets in trouble in school, and yet beats his elder son savagely because he stole a watch! So when Si'r smashes the light bulb, we don't need to see his reaction, because we know already. The values of these people are so out of whack that they are blind to the troubles around them, and they open their eyes only to see the effects of the tragedies. And what better way to show how "systematic" and "usual" these troubles are than using a dispassionate, subdue, almost cinema verite-like style of storytelling? Yang even adds a subtle dig of the usual filmmaking techniques by way of having Si'r telling the film director, "Do you even know what you film is real or not?" That moment is a little too obvious for me, but it emphasizes Yang's idea that people are often too rigid to the "traditional values" and blind to the real troubles around them.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by DVD Phreak

The film is subdue in order to show the quiet desperation of a world in which the inhabitants have yet to wake up from the nightmarish moral bankruptcy that can transform, seemingly *imperceptibly* (hence the subdue style), a child into a cold, psychotic killer.

Yes, but I found this completely unconvincing.

It's interesting that its defenders are talking about how subtle and nuanced the film is yet it leads to such an extreme and exaggerated conclusion. To me the tone of the film was completely wrong for this kind of arc. It's something that is best suited for a more polemical film. Each to their own, but for me he picked the wrong approach to the material.

As for your point about quoting journalists, finding the universal in the specific is a common feature of great stories across the board, regardless of the medium. It's what makes films resonate beyond cultural borders. All I ever hear is 'yeah, it's a film about the growing pains of Taiwan as a nation', but that's the only meaning they find it. The film also expresses a suspicion of authority, but in a way that seems like a hoary cliche from the 60's. The film is set in the 60's, yes, but it was made decades later. It reminded me of The White Ribbon in this respect.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by Markgway

I have The Terrorizers and Yi Yi but haven't watched them yet.

I really didn't like A Brighter Summer Day and so put those at the bottom of the pile.

You should give them a chance. They are not like A Brighter Summer Day.