The Criterion Collection

[Banned User]

In regards to my feelings of In A Lonely Place. IMO I don't think the film is trying to be an apologist film. Its a dark bleak film all around. The Bogart character is flawed which is a lot more interesting and true to life. Bogart is a likable actor playing against type as a horrible person, but a character type that does exist in real life and does have relationships and good qualities on top of being deeply flawed. He's more or less a Jekyll and Hyde character who's alcohol abuse and violent nature stem from his self loathing.

The agent and characters around Bogart are lying to themselves and making excuses for his behavoir because in real life that's what many people do for a variety of complicated reasons. The film doesn't explore these reasons, though probably due to the characters own flaws.

I think you can come to the conclusion the film is apologetic because you expect the standard hollywood formula where its suppose to be sad that the two lovers don't end up in the end like Casablanca, but the film is a better film because it uses this expectation on top of your hatred of the character's actions to twist your feelings. Should you be like the agent and friends of Bogarts and make excuses for him or should you hate him and be glad she got away? Because you are conditioned to expect the Casablanca ending, but loathe the character, it leaves you with a lot of deep questions and opposing feelings.

You don't question at the end that Bogarts character is sad he didn't get married to her because he does love her. Just because he is a piece of trash doesn't change how he feels or thinks. Just like you don't question the women knows she is getting away from a violent man even though she does love him.

No one is asking you to like or feel sorry for the character or their ultimate departure from each other. You are bringing that own baggage into your assesment of the film. Beating a woman is a horrible violent act, but is it impossible to have any sympathy for him without apologizing for his actions? Had he been a drug abuser or thief instead would he have then been redeemable? Clearly these are personal questions. If you are looking for clear and cut black and white characters this is the wrong film to watch. In A Lonely Place is one of Bogarts best roles because he doesn't play his typical clear cut good guy or bad guy. Those kind of characters make for really boring cinema IMO and leave nothing for discussion.

As everyone should be well aware Ray had just left his wife and was shooting the original ending, where Bogart strangles her, when it dawned on him "Romances don’t have to end that way. Marriages don’t have to end that way, they don’t have to end in violence. Let the audience make up its own mind what's going to happen to Bogie when he goes outside the apartment" then later in a interview Ray said "You do not know whether the man is going to go out, to get drunk, have an accident in his car, or whether he is going to go to a psychiatrist for help”

So the true ending is left up to the viewer. If you think the film is apologetic then Bogart gets drunk that night, drives off and dies in a car accident. Standard Hollywood bad guy gets his justice ending. Or he seeked help and solved his violence issues, quit drinking and became a successful playwright and lived happily every after always wondering about the women who he drove away those many years ago. Redemption ending.

That being said I much prefer the current ending to the original scripted one which seems typical bad guy kills women he loves and gets arrested. Close curtain. Boring.

[Dr. Zaius]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Fanny and Alexander is one of my most treasured blu-rays. I watch the television version every November or December.

If I were to ever produce a top 10 list it would make my final cut easily.

I do the same and try to watch it around Cristmas. But I change and watch at the different versions every two years and this year it's time for the theatrical version. I like both versions, but if I have to choose I would probably choose the tv version.

[blu-bry]

Originally Posted by monorail91

Working on my bi-annual Criterion binge of new titles (my "oh snap! it's 50% off sale time" period). Between Netflix discs and FilmStruck (xoxo) I'm leaning towards:

Yay:

• Blood Simple
• Fox and His Friends
• Only Angels Have Wings

Nay:

• Cronos
• Diabolique
• Sweet Movie

Either Way:

• La Cage aux Folles
• Cat People

Have more on track to see as the sale's still going on. FilmStruck has quite a few titles that were not available on Hulu, so definitely recommend checking out.

I really like "Diabolique", so if you haven't seen it you might want to check it out. It was a blind buy for me and I'm glad I got it.

[Banned User]

Diabolique is a masterpiece of cinema. While the ending doesn't have the same effect as it did when released there is no doubting its influence. It was arguably the most influential psychological horror film of its time and a huge influence on Hitchcock and Psycho. Even going so far as Clouzot had tacked on the film after the end (Fin) "Don’t be devils, don’t ruin the interest your friends could take in this film. Don’t tell them what you saw. Thank you for them.” Of note Les Diabolique means The devils.

Which is basically the same marketing ploy Hitchcock used on Psycho.

The collection really could use some more Clouzot. I keep hoping they will get the rights back to The Raven ( Le Corbeau ) one of my favorite Clouzot films. Anybody with Film struck want to check if that title is available on it?

Or at the very least release The Murderer Lives at 21 which was released by MoC a long time ago in a great print.

[blufellas]

If you had a chance to get The Third Man on DigiPack or clear case, both same price, which one would you get? (assuming you don't have it already) Thanks in advance.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by blufellas

If you had a chance to get The Third Man on DigiPack or clear case, both same price, which one would you get? (assuming you don't have it already) Thanks in advance.

Definitely the clear case version. I have the DigiPack version and a custom replacement case, but it's not the same.

I'm actually thinking of selling my version in favor of the 4K remaster released in the UK.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

To be clear - I am not faulting anyone for liking In a Lonely Place - If you love it, more power to ya.

My (and the three people I viewed it with last night's) reading of the film is it is very much a domestic violence apologist film. If you have a different reading, by all means, present it and back it up.

My reading would be that the characters you see as apologists I see as enablers. Enablers exist. I don't see their purpose as justifying or mitigating Dix's violent tendencies. If anything, rather than mitigating blame they spread blame around.

And I don't share your take on Dix's ultimate fate either.

[Show spoiler]Whatever success he might have is pretty clearly hollow. Sure, he might have a successful screenplay on his hands but his own flaws have poisoned any chance he might have had at real happiness.

That might not be tragic in the classical Greek sense (his flaws aren't what made him great and his downfall isn't quite as dramatic - he basically ends up right where he started, bitter and alone) but it's pretty damn close.

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Definitely the clear case version. I have the DigiPack version and a custom replacement case, but it's not the same.

I'm actually thinking of selling my version in favor of the 4K remaster released in the UK.

It was released in Canada too if you want something Region A/closer to home.

[senseabove]

My favorite Clouzot/Hitchcock connections are the legends that either he was tight-fisted with Pierre Boileau and Thomas Narcejac, the authors who wrote the novel The Fiends, which Les Diaboliques was based on, so they took the rights elsewhere (i.e. to Clouzot) or that Clouzot beat Hitchcock to the dotted line for the rights by mere hours. But the best is that supposedly, after Hitchcock saw what Clouzot did turning The Fiends into Les Diaboliques, he immediately bought the rights to another book by Boileau and Narcejac, called The Living and The Dead, which became...

...wait for it...

[Show spoiler]Vertigo

!

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

It was released in Canada too if you want something Region A/closer to home.

Thanks for the information! Didn't know that!

[Scottie]

https://www.amazon.com/As-Tears-Go-M...s=wong+kar+wai

https://www.amazon.com/Days-Being-Wi...s=wong+kar+wai

Finally available to stream

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

It was released in Canada too if you want something Region A/closer to home.

I think you're thinking of The Man Who Fell to Earth. The 4K restored release of The Third Man has only come out in UK, Germany, and France I believe.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

What are everyone's thoughts on Cat People (1942)? I just got done watching it and am completely baffled as to why this is considered a classic? Aside from a couple very well done scenes (you know the ones) I really didn't get anything else out of it. Help me out here.

I had a similar feeling about The Black Cat (1934).

I actually liked Cat People more, but I can see where you're coming from, even as short as it was it still took some doing to find the right time to watch it all the way through.

I'm currently still looking for the right time to watch Curse Of The Cat People, I've started it a couple times, but didn't quite make it much more than half way either time. (And this one's a pretty short one too.)

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I think you're thinking of The Man Who Fell to Earth. The 4K restored release of The Third Man has only come out in UK, Germany, and France I believe.

You are correct. My sincere apology. Shows how much those 2 titles are linked in my brain.

Now that I'm talking about the correct film, it looks like that deluxe version of the UK 4k Third Man blu might be oop/sold out.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

https://www.amazon.com/As-Tears-Go-M...s=wong+kar+wai

https://www.amazon.com/Days-Being-Wi...s=wong+kar+wai

Finally available to stream

That $3.99 Fandor sub is a great deal too. It's my favorite streaming service

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by blufellas

If you had a chance to get The Third Man on DigiPack or clear case, both same price, which one would you get? (assuming you don't have it already) Thanks in advance.

I've got the Criterion digipak edition of The Third Man, but I would prefer to have the clear case. As is, I keep my Criterion disc in a clear replacement case while the digipak stays in storage.

Of course, I never watch the Criterion disc anymore. The 4K restoration on the StudioCanal disc is now the definitive edition of this movie to my eyes. I only keep the Criterion disc around because of the unique extras. Also, I bought the Criterion disc for $75 from a third-party Amazon dealer after a couple of years of searching, and I'll be goddamned if I'm going to sell it for pennies on the dollar after all of that effort.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by fdm

I had a similar feeling about The Black Cat (1934).

I actually liked Cat People more, but I can see where you're coming from, even as short as it was it still took some doing to find the right time to watch it all the way through.

I'm currently still looking for the right time to watch Curse Of The Cat People, I've started it a couple times, but didn't quite make it much more than half way either time. (And this one's a pretty short one too.)

Seems I'm a cat lover since I really like all of these (+ The Leopard Man for good measure). The Black Cat gives a rare sympathetic role to Lugosi; that fantastic house of the future, and the satanic cult and odd (kinky?) choices of wives by Karloff's character. What's not to like? The days of Pre-Code films were just about over when this was made but it either made it out before the enforcement or sneaked by and no one noticed.

[the sordid sentinel]

Watched The Third Man and Odd Man Out the last 2 nights. Carol Reed was quite the film maker, so much so that I am considering a blind by of Night Train to Munich down the road due to his involvement.

[zoodermin]

I noticed that the MGM Rebecca blu-ray is out of print. Could that mean an upcoming Criterion release?

[Majin Blu]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

I noticed that the MGM Rebecca blu-ray is out of print. Could that mean an upcoming Criterion release?

I hope so!