Ex Machina (D. Alex Garland)

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Yep. Fact. It is also impossible for a computer to ever "feel" as humans do. They can be programmed to mimic or behave as if they have feelings but they will never feel genuine emotions. That's reserved strictly for living beings. And it's not arguable.

and what exactly makes a "living being" distinct from a computer?

is there some magic in our programing being a combination of chemical and electrical rather than purely electrical?

emotions are just combinations of chemical compounds that cause different electrical reactions in our bodies. Dopamine, serotonin...etc. In real terms they're no different than computer programs or subroutines.

Just because a living thing wasn't "programmed" the way computer code is written doesn't mean it isn't programmed. All living beings EVER do is mimic other living beings that came before them.

Some default setting are hardwired into by the luck of the order of a bunch of Adenine, Thymine, Guanine, and Cytosine in our cells. But beyond that most "feeling" and "behaviors" are adapted and learned the same way we learn language.

"life" is not particularly special, and is not remotely uniquely the domain of biological structures, we just simply haven't YET created technological systems as complex as higher biological ones.

You don't have to get all religious or metaphysical to debate this. Even completely disregarding the idea of a "soul," most people still accept that higher forms of animal life are capable of feelings. If you wanna try to tell me that my dog doesn't have emotions I will laugh in your face.

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by spectre08

and what exactly makes a "living being" distinct from a computer?

is there some magic in our programing being a combination of chemical and electrical rather than purely electrical?

First we don't need to be plugged or run on batteries.
Second most of our "pieces" can't be made if we need to change them, we need to take them from someone else.

Originally Posted by spectre08

"life" is not particularly special, and is not remotely uniquely the domain of biological structures, we just simply haven't YET created technological systems as complex as higher biological ones.

There's no recipe to create something biological from scratch like we can do with any machine.

Originally Posted by spectre08

You don't have to get all religious or metaphysical to debate this. Even completely disregarding the idea of a "soul," most people still accept that higher forms of animal life are capable of feelings. If you wanna try to tell me that my dog doesn't have emotions I will laugh in your face.

Your dog does have emotions (they just aren't as complex as ours) and maybe even have a soul too.


BTW, why does everybody use spoiler tags, that movie's almost a year old.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

First we don't need to be plugged or run on batteries.
Second most of our "pieces" can't be made if we need to change them, we need to take them from someone else.

Because our system works on energy from chemical reactions. There are several other machines that are man made that are powered by chemical reactions as well.

A computer that's plugged into a gas generator is plenty similar.

There's no limitation in physics or chemistry that would prevent the creation one day of an AI that powered itself by ingesting and breaking down food.

As to your second point, this is a current limitation of science, one that we will inevitably overcome.

There's no recipe to create something biological from scratch like we can do with any machine.

again, yet. Just because we don't understand it, doesn't make it magic or special. "Life" is nothing but the combination of the correct atoms and the correct order. A biological being is the correct combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen the same way a computer is the correct combination of silicon and copper.

[quote[Your dog does have emotions (they just aren't as complex as ours) and maybe even have a soul too.
[/quote]

If a dog can have emotions then so can a sufficiently complex computer.

BTW, why does everybody use spoiler tags, that movie's almost a year old.

agreed

[spectre08]

As I've said repeatedly. Consciousness, and subsequently emotion, is nothing more than a consequence of the immense complexity and processing power of the brain.

There are over 100 trillion neural connections in a human brain.

The most powerful supercomputers in the world can only match a fraction of this.

But time solves all technological boundaries.

[Rodney-2187]

I think it's amazing Isaac Asimov was thinking of this stuff in the 1950's.

[JamesKurtovich]

I don't know why it took me so long to see this movie. I loved it.

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by spectre08

As I've said repeatedly. Consciousness, and subsequently emotion, is nothing more than a consequence of the immense complexity and processing power of the brain.

There are over 100 trillion neural connections in a human brain.

The most powerful supercomputers in the world can only match a fraction of this.

But time solves all technological boundaries.

Anyway I'm living in the present, none of us can predict the future, time may or may not change this. My point is half made, in 2016 a machine can't have emotions, period. But your explanations are making sense, it's just not at our door step yet.

I have the most advanced Roomba at home and it's stupid as hell, it makes me mad that in 2016 such a thing is the top of the line. We're not even close of being overcome by machines and that is a good thing.

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I don't know why it took me so long to see this movie. I loved it.

Same here, it was on my Netflix list for at least 3 months before I watched it!

Should I get the Blu-ray just for the extras?

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

Anyway I'm living in the present, none of us can predict the future, time may or may not change this. My point is half made, in 2016 a machine can't have emotions, period. But your explanation are making sense, it's just not at our door step yet.

I have the most advanced Roomba at home and it's stupid as hell, it makes me mad that in 2016 such a thing is the top of the line. We're not even close of being overcome by machines and that is a good thing.



Same here, it was on my Netflix list for at least 3 months before I watched it!

Should I get the Blu-ray just for the extras?

ok, but the argument wasn't whether a computer with current technology could have emotion, but whether a computer could have emotion, period.

An AI with emotion is not impossible, in fact it is absolutely inevitable. It may be 10 years from now or it may be 100 years from now, but it is going to happen.

[Tuco_76]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

[Show spoiler]Anyway I'm living in the present, none of us can predict the future, time may or may not change this. My point is half made, in 2016 a machine can't have emotions, period. But your explanations are making sense, it's just not at our door step yet.

I have the most advanced Roomba at home and it's stupid as hell, it makes me mad that in 2016 such a thing is the top of the line. We're not even close of being overcome by machines and that is a good thing.



Same here, it was on my Netflix list for at least 3 months before I watched it!

Should I get the Blu-ray just for the extras?

Absolutely.

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by Tuco_76

Absolutely.

Thanks.

[tigertron]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I don't know why it took me so long to see this movie. I loved it.

Better late than never.

[Foggy]

Ex Machina — The Control of Information - YouTube

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Ex Machina — The Control of Information - YouTube

That was very cool. Thank you.

And I completely agree with him on how the intensity ramps up as we get nearer and nearer the end, and how that works fully in favor of the film.

I really need to watch tonight.

[KAOS-Theory]

I’ve been intrigued by AI and robotics for quite a while.

I even took an AI class in graduate school, however it was not much more than theory and some programming using AI specific software. The class was quite dry and I wished there was more of a human/emotional component to the course.

Some of my fondest memories of the 1960’s Get Smart television comedy were episodes which included Hymie the Robot. Hymie wanted to be friends with Max and was hilarious at simulated emotions, for example kissing Max on the check when Max inferred that Hymie was his best friend.

I’ve watched Ex Machina several times now and enjoy it more each time. I very much like the way Ava moves, her expressions, and each word she speaks. I may have become emotionally attached to Ava!

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by KAOS-Theory

I’ve been intrigued by AI and robotics for quite a while.

I even took an AI class in graduate school, however it was not much more than theory and some programming using AI specific software. The class was quite dry and I wished there was more of a human/emotional component to the course.

Some of my fondest memories of the 1960’s Get Smart television comedy were episodes which included Hymie the Robot. Hymie wanted to be friends with Max and was hilarious at simulated emotions, for example kissing Max on the check when Max inferred that Hymie was his best friend.

I’ve watched Ex Machina several times now and enjoy it more each time. I very much like the way Ava moves, her expressions, and each word she speaks. I may have become emotionally attached to Ava!

Just a word of warning, it didn't work out too well for the last guy who got emotionally attached to her.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by KAOS-Theory

[Show spoiler]I’ve been intrigued by AI and robotics for quite a while.

I even took an AI class in graduate school, however it was not much more than theory and some programming using AI specific software. The class was quite dry and I wished there was more of a human/emotional component to the course.

Some of my fondest memories of the 1960’s Get Smart television comedy were episodes which included Hymie the Robot. Hymie wanted to be friends with Max and was hilarious at simulated emotions, for example kissing Max on the check when Max inferred that Hymie was his best friend.

I’ve watched Ex Machina several times now and enjoy it more each time. I very much like the way Ava moves, her expressions, and each word she speaks. I may have become emotionally attached to Ava!

Originally Posted by Foggy

Just a word of warning, it didn't work out too well for the last guy who got emotionally attached to her.

Yeah, Foggy's right.

I think that, seriously for a minute, Vikander's ability to express so much through facial expressions and glances and tilts of the head -- it really doesn't even matter in the end what she says or doesn't say. There's just something that is both frightening and compelling about her. I suppose that's the brilliance of the film: It captures the way in which we look at each other, finding those who are troubling and frightening to be also lovely and fulfilling.

We have all either been in relationships like that, or known those who have. Is Ava using Caleb? Of course. But does she have a choice? That's the question. Is Caleb just a silly guy who falls for the pretty AI? Or is he honestly manipulated? Is there a difference?

Damn, this is a good movie.

[Ray Jackson]

Ava is basically a psychopath.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

Ava is basically a psychopath.

In the sense that she's programmed only to concern herself? Sure. She lacks empathy, compassion, or any human emotions. But she was programmed that way. It's not like she has a choice. That's why it's interesting. That's why the Turing test is part of the story.

[Leonidas King]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

In the sense that she's programmed only to concern herself? Sure. She lacks empathy, compassion, or any human emotions. But she was programmed that way. It's not like she has a choice. That's why it's interesting. That's why the Turing test is part of the story.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

In the sense that she's programmed only to concern herself? Sure. She lacks empathy, compassion, or any human emotions. But she was programmed that way. It's not like she has a choice. That's why it's interesting. That's why the Turing test is part of the story.

If she has truly achieved consciousness, then she does have a choice.