Dolby TrueHD is it being over-hyped?

[Steeb]

Originally Posted by GasCat

I have a few questions:
What receivers are capable of using TrueHD?

Any receiver capable of receiving 5.1 PCM over analog or HDMI, assuming your player decodes DTHD.

Originally Posted by GasCat

What players are capable of using TrueHD?

The vast majority of the players sold: PS3, Panny (both versions), New Samsung (I think)... there may be more, I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by GasCat

Isn't this just another way for Dolby Labs to make money?

Um... no. It's a way for us to get losslessy compressed soundtracks.

Originally Posted by GasCat

Isn't this something that was started with the HD-DVD camp because they don't have 50 GB to play around with?

Um... no. DTHD is basically MLP (what was used in DVD-A) with some Dolby extras thrown in. Also, let's not forget that currently there are a ton of BD-25 discs out there, so 50GB is not guaranteed. Plus, eventually we could see BD titles with HD PiP (basically two 1080p HD streams to contend with,) which would make DTHD even more attractive.

Originally Posted by GasCat

Can someone give me the cons of using PCM?

1. It eats up space that could be used for other things (better PQ, extras, etc.)
2. It eats up bandwidth that could be used for other things (better PQ, extras, etc.)
3. It doesn't scale down like the advance codecs can (ie. if you only have 5.1 PCM and you use an optical connection, you only get 2.0 channels.)
4. It's easier to get better tracks (20/48 or 24/48 instead of 16/48) with an advanced audio codec, since PCM would take up way more space and bandwidth (like on Ghost Rider, where the DTHD track was 20/48 compared to the 16/48 PCM track.)
5. A BD-50 could have several DTHD tracks (for different languages) while they would never be able to get away with multiple PCM tracks (they might be able to squeeze in a second, but certainly not a third or fourth.) In fact, I think there's a BD title that's been announced that has two DTHD tracks - one in English and one in another language (Spanish?)

As for sound quality, assuming all other factors are equal (ie one track's not 16/48 while the other is 24/48,) uncompressed PCM = DTHD = DTS-HD MA.

Lossless audio codecs are the future - PCM is just a stop-gap measure. Better get used to it...

[ClaytonMG]

Which Blu-Ray players at this point don't decode Dolby TrueHD? The first Samsung doesn't, but are there any others?

[Steeb]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Which Blu-Ray players at this point don't decode Dolby TrueHD? The first Samsung doesn't, but are there any others?

The first Pioneer doesn't either. I don't know about the Sharp player or the LG combo player.

Edit - I meant Philips, not Sharp. Thanks, dobyblue.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Steeb

The first Pioneer doesn't either. I don't know about the Sharp player or the LG combo player.

Edit - I meant Philips, not Sharp. Thanks, dobyblue.

There's a firmware update either en route or already released for the first Pioneer player as well.

[dobyblue]

The Philips.

[ClaytonMG]

So the Philips and Samsung, right? I believe the first Pioneer had a firmware upgrade to decode it...

[cajmoyper]

Excellent explanation Steeb.

[Memnoch]

Onkyo 605 and 805 are supposed to process DolbyTrueHD. But this is kind of in debate. I have a PS3 that decodes it, then sends it via PCM to the receiver. I think that is how it works. So the 605 isn't really decoding anything. But supposedly, one of these days, there will be BD players that would send an undecoded source to the 605 to decode. I frankly don't give a shit how it works. My 605 sounds awesome and better than my last av receiver. NIN: BYIT BD is DolbyTrueHD and it sounds amazing on it. That's all that matters to me. All these nerds can argue back and forth until they are blue in the face about this crap. I did a lot of research on HDMI v1.3 before I bought any of my stuff and I feel I did the best I could with everything on the market at the time. Everything looks and sounds flawless, so I'm happy.

Samsung HL-T6189S
Onkyo 605
PS3
Wii

Damn skippy.

[coolwavepic]

For me I don't care what the sound is in as long as the SOUND DESIGN is excellent. I think that is the key right there.

I am all for DTS-HD and TrueHD but you have to have a good movie with sound design. Two that come to mind is Titan AE and The Others. Two movies I hope to come to Blu-ray.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

Onkyo 605 and 805 are supposed to process DolbyTrueHD. But this is kind of in debate. I have a PS3 that decodes it, then sends it via PCM to the receiver. I think that is how it works. So the 605 isn't really decoding anything. But supposedly, one of these days, there will be BD players that would send an undecoded source to the 605 to decode. I frankly don't give a shit how it works. My 605 sounds awesome and better than my last av receiver. NIN: BYIT BD is DolbyTrueHD and it sounds amazing on it. That's all that matters to me. All these nerds can argue back and forth until they are blue in the face about this crap. I did a lot of research on HDMI v1.3 before I bought any of my stuff and I feel I did the best I could with everything on the market at the time. Everything looks and sounds flawless, so I'm happy.

Samsung HL-T6189S
Onkyo 605
PS3
Wii

Damn skippy.

We should see the first players to natively pass through TrueHD AND DTS-HD Master Audio before Christmas.

Personally I think if the option is there to pick up a good HDMI 1.3 receiver like the Onkyo 605, 675, 805, 875, or 905, Pioneer Elite's upcoming series 9 receivers or the upcoming Denon receivers, you should go for it. Why not match HDMI ports?

I'd rather have the option to let my designated receiver do the processing especially with the money I'll be spending on it, but in the case of the PS3 I don't think it's a big concern. They've managed to let the cell process DSD into PCM at 24/176.4 and at that sort of rate I'm pretty sure any audio processing they do inside the PS3 for Blu-ray is going to be top of the line also.

DTS expects DTS-MA decoding to be enabled on the PS3 through software before the end of the year.

[GasCat]

Is the sound coming from the current PCM tracks as good as the TrueHD tracks?

Can someone post some links to read more about Dolby TrueHD or is the Dolby site the simplest thing out there?

Why are these new Onkyo receivers which have TrueHD so highly acclamied if any receiver with HDMI will take the signal?

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Steeb

5. A BD-50 could have several DTHD tracks (for different languages) while they would never be able to get away with multiple PCM tracks (they might be able to squeeze in a second, but certainly not a third or fourth.)

Well, actually they have: Identity

Originally Posted by Steeb

As for sound quality, assuming all other factors are equal (ie one track's not 16/48 while the other is 24/48,) uncompressed PCM = DTHD = DTS-HD MA.

Correct.

[Steeb]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Well, actually they have: Identity

Yep, I forgot about that one (even though I own it I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.) It has both English and German PCM tracks. I'm glad I qualified my statement above with "they could probably squeeze in a second one..." Still, using an advanced audio codec would have allowed them to include a French PCM track (for the Canadians) as well. Note that while highdefdigest claims that the disc includes a French PCM track in addition to the English and German tracks, the cover says differently (and highdefdigest is notorious for getting audio specs wrong on these reviews.)

Originally Posted by dobyblue

There's a firmware update either en route or already released for the first Pioneer player as well.

I wasn't aware of that - thanks for pointing it out. That's great news for those that own the Pioneer and even more reason why DTHD should be more common on BD.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Steeb

Yep, I forgot about that one (even though I own it I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.) It has both English and German PCM tracks. I'm glad I qualified my statement above with "they could probably squeeze in a second one..." Still, using an advanced audio codec would have allowed them to include a French PCM track (for the Canadians) as well. Note that while highdefdigest claims that the disc includes a French PCM track in addition to the English and German tracks, the cover says differently (and highdefdigest is notorious for getting audio specs wrong on these reviews.)

Ah, I didn't know. I just remember it was on the news section on here that there will be 3 PCM tracks for Identity. Anyway, DolbyTHD or DTS HD-MA will be adopted by the studios in the long run (for the reason you stated).

[Steeb]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Ah, I didn't know. I just remember it was on the news section on here that there will be 3 PCM tracks for Identity. Anyway, DolbyTHD or DTS HD-MA will be adopted by the studios in the long run (for the reason you stated).

I just checked the disc to see what options would show up. The cover is correct and highdefdigest is wrong - there are only two PCM tracks: one in English, one in German.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Steeb

I just checked the disc to see what options would show up. The cover is correct and highdefdigest is wrong - there are only two PCM tracks: one in English, one in German.

Oh well, who cares about French anyway... j/k