Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep telling you guys it's all Digital now, so when older film is restored to Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray those Files will be put on Servers for Streaming access. It will be transparent access whether Streamed from Blu-ray, UHD Disc, or Streaming Server. Movie quality will all be the same, the only difference will be the Access.

Originally Posted by tele1962

And when Blu Ray or Physical media no longer exists, what then. Do you honestly think streaming companies will care less about the restoration of older films. What then for the smaller independents like Criterion, Arrow etc?

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The expensive restorations are for the collectors who are willing to pay high prices for individual titles. If physical media goes away the number of collectors will drastically shrink and it won't be worth it for any studio to put a lot of time or money into restorations.

While the studios have attempted to get collectors to buy digital, they've mostly been unsuccessful. Physical media still makes up more than 75% of media purchases (not rentals or subscriptions).

Don't worry, the Collectors will be okay, they will just have to pay a lot more. Restoration of old Film and Movies is about supply and demand, if enough people want an Old Classic it will be Restored to the Media of the times. That's why as supplies go down prices go up, I'm hanging on to some of my Discs to get the high prices a Collector is willing to pay.

[Cranston37]

In the U.K., digital sales pass physical sales for the first time...

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ime-2016-39396

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Cranston37

In the U.K., digital sales pass physical sales for the first time...

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ime-2016-39396

Why would they consider Netflix as sales?

*

[Blaze_Chamberlin]

Digital media is alright, but I'm still a physical media person through and through.

[Rickyrockard]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Why would they consider Netflix as sales?

You mean because you're effectively renting it from Netflix - one month at a time?

I think they include rentals in their stats, whether physical or digital.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Rickyrockard

You mean because you're effectively renting it from Netflix - one month at a time?

I think they include rentals in their stats, whether physical or digital.

Revenue would have been a better term. Sales implies buying something... usually.

*

[ilovenola2]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep telling you guys it's all Digital now, so when older film is restored to Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray those Files will be put on Servers for Streaming access. It will be transparent access whether Streamed from Blu-ray, UHD Disc, or Streaming Server. Movie quality will all be the same, the only difference will be the Access.

Disagree 1000%!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I keep telling you guys it's all Digital now, so when older film is restored to Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray those Files will be put on Servers for Streaming access. It will be transparent access whether Streamed from Blu-ray, UHD Disc, or Streaming Server. Movie quality will all be the same, the only difference will be the Access.

Originally Posted by ilovenola2

Disagree 1000%!

You can disagree all you want, even though New Orleans is a great town. The facts are these Digital Files can be stored and played back in many forms. We already know for Cinema Hard Drives are used for their Digital Projectors. So what are Digital Providers' Servers, just Hard Drives loaded with Digital Movies. Hence Streaming Providers bringing us HD and UHD Movies, at top PQ and Sound to our Home Theaters. High Solid Bandwidth is needed for proper Streaming, so Fiber is the top choice.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You can disagree all you want, even though New Orleans is a great town. The facts are these Digital Files can be stored and played back in many forms. We already know for Cinema Hard Drives are used for their Digital Projectors. So what are Digital Providers' Servers, just Hard Drives loaded with Digital Movies. Hence Streaming Providers bringing us HD and UHD Movies, at top PQ and Sound to our Home Theaters. High Solid Bandwidth is needed for proper Streaming, so Fiber is the top choice.

Thing is these large companies will not i can assure you invest in older titles getting the love and attention that the independent labels give many of their releases. So what are we left with in the future as i said before " a digital mess" and the only films that might look half decent will be the the Hollywood CGI fodder that is being turned out. So i say again how can this be the future.

PS
UHD Blu Ray has surpassed all expected sales forecasts and looking at CES this year Blu Ray and Physical media is still on the up and up.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You can disagree all you want, even though New Orleans is a great town. The facts are these Digital Files can be stored and played back in many forms. We already know for Cinema Hard Drives are used for their Digital Projectors. So what are Digital Providers' Servers, just Hard Drives loaded with Digital Movies. Hence Streaming Providers bringing us HD and UHD Movies, at top PQ and Sound to our Home Theaters. High Solid Bandwidth is needed for proper Streaming, so Fiber is the top choice.

I think we run into a problem with the term digital. CDs, DVDs, Blu Rays, they all contain only digital information. However, the end product is a physical copy.

I, personally, enjoy digital media. I do not (often) enjoy streaming media.

Just because something is digital doesn't mean it can't exist in a physical form. It can be on a disc or a hard disc. It can still be something that is "owned" by someone rather than something you can secure "access" to.

Streaming from Netfux or Vudu is far lower quality than Blu Ray and if you don't have a good system you may not notice or you may be someone who like to watch movies while reading books or Txt-ing.

One BIG reason I prefer my media to by physical is I can keep it. People get very confused about streaming stuff. Every month some one gets paid to write an "article" about the movies you better watch because they are leaving the streaming service on Netfux or Amazon. Every month someone writes about which games are "free" on Playstation plus. There are no free games on playstation plus... it's subscription based active rental but people are easy to deceive.

The push to move media to servers and give only "licenses" to users is not something I like. Maybe I'm paranoid but I like to go spend time with my media without having to go online and have my ID checked.

-Brian

[bhampton]

And,

There is a push in many tech industries to simply let people access stuff but never own it.

I don't believe you can "own" a supported version of M$ office. Current (supported) versions are rented or subscribed to. You can own Apachie OpenOffice. You can't buy OpenOffice because it's free but you can own it.


I may seems to be getting off topic but I'm not. Someone who keeps a streaming subscription active isn't owning the content but actively renting the content and rental agreement can change at any time.

a little bit of confusion on the part of the end user is all that's needed to change the culture and ultimately change the landscape of the industry. And, generally people either aren't good at math or they don't choose to read the fine print.

I'm glad I lived in a period where movies and music were available as something you could actually own.

Embrace this streaming crap at your own risk.

Edit - But wait , ... I own 388 movies on Vudu .. what's with that ? ... Well, Yes, ... I do redeem the streaming copy when I buy Blu. My neighbor can then watch my stuff without borrowing my discs. I know someone who is so against streaming he destroys the digital copy code rather than give it away but I'm not that way. I do realize though my so called "owned" movies can disappear at any time. It has actually happened in iTunes when Beauty and the Beast was removed for a while from the store and from any possibility of download. I also realize that Vudu may decide it wants to show ads before I can watch the stuff that I own... far fetched ? not at all.



-Brian

[master gandhi]

You mean like the ads that play at the beginning of many Blu-rays?

I definitely get the resistance to digital streaming. It might not be smart to fully embrace it and completely rid yourself of physical media yet (I haven't sold any of my many Blu-rays). It's probably still best to balance the two until things are figured out more by the industry. If the industry ever decides to be on the same page with one standard, like a universal DMA-type account across all platforms, and a guarantee that your digital copy won't be taken away from you in your lifetime, that would probably satisfy most consumers.

But as it stands, I try to live in the now, and just enjoy what I have while I have it. I do waver back and forth about being all-digital or digital-plus-physical. The most recent physical copy I got was The Secret Life of Pets because TopCashBack reimbursed me completely for it (and I also own 7 UHD BDs). The most recent digital purchase was for Don't Breathe (for $7.99).

I do find myself also watching movies that are about to leave a subscription streaming provider, such as HBO GO. I watched The Great Outdoors last weekend on that app because it's said to be expiring. I was watching the Rifftrax Live of Sharknado Monday night with my wife, and had to pause it to finish it Tuesday, but on Tuesday, it had expired so it was gone. Not even purchasable. Just gone completely from Amazon Prime. So we watched Rifftrax Live of Sharknado 2. Heh

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

You mean like the ads that play at the beginning of many Blu-rays?

Don't tell anyone but I convert ALL of my collection to MKV and I don't even remember the ads before the Blu Rays or the FBI warning or anything like that.

Plus the best audio stream and the sub title track I want is all preset for me.

All on a server 40TB and growing.

In essence --- I have a digital copy .... just not the shit HDX version.

-Brian

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by bhampton

There is a push in many tech industries to simply let people access stuff but never own it.

I don't believe you can "own" a supported version of M$ office.

Actually you can:

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store...ctID.323023800

It is true that many software companies prefer subscription models now, but this is mainly to secure a predictable income stream in order to finance development and maintenance of said software. This is obviously not directly applicable to movies. Movie subscription services like Netflix are popular simply because they are convenient and a lot less expensive than regularly buying Blu-rays. There is no grand conspiracy by the industry, it's just market forces.

I may seems to be getting off topic but I'm not. Someone who keeps a streaming subscription active isn't owning the content but actively renting the content and rental agreement can change at any time.

Yes. But you can buy a movie on iTunes, download it, and it's yours to keep. Again, I believe subscription services and rentals will be more popular in the future, but that is because most people outside of enthusiast circles like this forum don't put much value to "owning" movies.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I don't believe you can "own" a supported version of M$ office.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Actually you can:

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store...ctID.323023800

"For 1 PC": I wouldn't call that ownership.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Actually you can:

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store...ctID.323023800

It is true that many software companies prefer subscription models now, but this is mainly to secure a predictable income stream in order to finance development and maintenance of said software. This is obviously not directly applicable to movies. Movie subscription services like Netflix are popular simply because they are convenient and a lot less expensive than regularly buying Blu-rays. There is no grand conspiracy by the industry, it's just market forces.
Yes. But you can buy a movie on iTunes, download it, and it's yours to keep. Again, I believe subscription services and rentals will be more popular in the future, but that is because most people outside of enthusiast circles like this forum don't put much value to "owning" movies.

I'm not somebody who thinks our digital copies will just disappear but, if itunes or Vudu closes down what we downloaded wont be playable either....DRM.

[bubba111]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Only if your definition of owning.

If I own something -- an asset (car, boat, house, shirt, can of soup, Bluray) -- I can use it, donate it, trade it, leave it in a will to my children, or sell it.

If I have something in my possession that can never leave my possession legally -- what do I own?

Agreed.

I've moved mostly to digital but that is because I'm okay with NOT owning most of my collection (I find that I rarely watch a movie more than once). Keeping and still buying physical copies of certain Criterion releases, anime I know I'll rewatch, and around 50-100 of my favorite movies.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Only if your definition of owning.

If I own something -- an asset (car, boat, house, shirt, can of soup, Bluray) -- I can use it, donate it, trade it, leave it in a will to my children, or sell it.

If I have something in my possession that can never leave my possession legally -- what do I own?

When it comes to content, you never really "own" it. For example, you cannot legally make a copy of the content of a disc and then sell the disc.

But anyway, this is besides the point of the posting I replied to, because it was really about subscription vs. buying of digital movies, which is a matter of temporary vs. perpetual licensing.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

I'm not somebody who thinks our digital copies will just disappear but, if itunes or Vudu closes down what we downloaded wont be playable either....DRM.

You can remove the DRM. In may be illegal in the country you live in, but so is ripping a BD (since that also entails breaking DRM).

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

When it comes to content, you never really "own" it. For example, you cannot legally make a copy of the content of a disc and then sell the disc.

But anyway, this is besides the point of the posting I replied to, because it was really about subscription vs. buying of digital movies, which is a matter of temporary vs. perpetual licensing.

You don't own the content, but you own the disc. As long you own the disc the content owners have absolutely no way of taking the content away. When the content owners stop offering the content you can still access the content buy buying a used disc from one of thousands of people who own a disc. The disc is the license and it can't be taken away.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

You can remove the DRM. In may be illegal in the country you live in, but so is ripping a BD (since that also entails breaking DRM).

But you don't need to rip a Blu-ray to ensure it will work for a very long time. Since a Blu-ray has no online requirements the content owners can never stop any existing discs from working. With downloads when official support stops there is no (legal) way to buy or view the content. The download itself is not the license and all licenses for downloads can be revoked.

There is no such thing as "perpetual licensing" for a download. No company is going to support all of its content forever and they shouldn't have to. But they also shouldn't make products that require their continued support to function.