Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Jumpman]

Downloaded Files have to be compressed to make for efficient downloads, but Streaming Video BitRate with Vudu depends on your Bandwidth. They have been increasing the BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. So if you have FTTH the BitRate can be as good as Blu-ray. Vudu is in the process of scheduling a survey with me, and I will find out more on this subject.

I'll be honest, I didn't really know that. I figured the download would be of the same quality as the streaming version. I'm strictly iTunes when it comes to Digital HD and I go back and forth between streaming directly from iTunes or over my home network. It never really occurred to me that the download over my home network might not be as great as quality as streaming directly from iTunes.

For reference, I'm working with 350mbps download speed.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

I'll be honest, I didn't really know that. I figured the download would be of the same quality as the streaming version. I'm strictly iTunes when it comes to Digital HD and I go back and forth between streaming directly from iTunes or over my home network. It never really occurred to me that the download over my home network might not be as great as quality as streaming directly from iTunes.

For reference, I'm working with 350mbps download speed.

They are the same exact same files, none of the services that provide both downloads and streaming use different files for each.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

They are the same exact same files, none of the services that provide both downloads and streaming use different files for each.

That I get. I'm responding to the idea that the nitrate might be higher while streaming than on a download.

[whipnet]

SO basically if the material is good enough, it'll make Blu-ray, if it's crap it won't and remain digital only. Sounds like a business plan to me. (not being sarcastic)

*

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

That I get. I'm responding to the idea that the nitrate might be higher while streaming than on a download.

It isn't. Alchav is making stuff up.

The only way streaming will ever overtake the video and audio quality of physical media is if physical media stops improving. With how well Ultra HD Blu-ray is selling (3 times better than Blu-ray did when it launched) that doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by whipnet

SO basically if the material is good enough, it'll make Blu-ray, if it's crap it won't and remain digital only. Sounds like a business plan to me. (not being sarcastic)

*

But it isn't based on "good enough". It's based on "popular enough". Plus if a company that is highly focused on digital owns the content then it may remain digital only regardless of quality or popularity. Very few of the Amazon Originals have made it to physical media despite many of them being both popular and critically acclaimed.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It isn't. Alchav is making stuff up.

The only way streaming will ever overtake the video and audio quality of physical media is if physical media stops improving. With how well Ultra HD Blu-ray is selling (3 times better than Blu-ray did when it launched) that doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

I find it interesting that everyone says UHD is outselling Blu in comparison when Blu launched because I run the media department at my BB store and UHD doesn't move...like at all. I've sent more back than I've seen sold honestly.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

But it isn't based on "good enough". It's based on "popular enough". Plus if a company that is highly focused on digital owns the content then it may remain digital only regardless of quality or popularity. Very few of the Amazon Originals have made it to physical media despite many of them being both popular and critically acclaimed.

Touché. Popular is a better word used there.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It isn't. Alchav is making stuff up.

The only way streaming will ever overtake the video and audio quality of physical media is if physical media stops improving. With how well Ultra HD Blu-ray is selling (3 times better than Blu-ray did when it launched) that doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

I find it interesting that everyone says UHD is outselling Blu in comparison when Blu launched because I run the media department at my BB store and UHD doesn't move...like at all. I've sent more back than I've seen sold honestly.

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

It's obviously variable bit rate, but there is still a maximum. If you have a fast enough connection you will receive the file they're hosting in its original form, but that file is still a lower bit rate than Blu-ray and a drastically lower bit rate than Ultra HD Blu-ray.

If you can get concrete information that Vudu has bit rates of over 60 Mbps (like Ultra HD Blu-ray) then you'll have a case. Regardless of how fast of connection the customers have it's very expensive to host and stream 50GB to 100GB files and there is no evidence that is what Vudu is doing.

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

Don't you think if they could deliver the bit rates you claim they would brag about it?

Don't you think if they were constantly upgrading their files they would fix all their problems with aspect ratios?

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

Originally Posted by Greyman

This has been gone over numerous times, Vudu may have great picture quality, but your statements are not accurate.

From August, 2016
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post12594681

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't know why you guys are in such denial, Vudu with it's Variable BitRate has the ability to Stream Blu-ray Quality Video. If you have FTTH, and are set up properly there is no reason to believe the BitRate for Blu-ray and HDX can't be the same. Vudu Servers are massive, and able to hold and Stream large HDX Files giving full Blu-ray Quality BitRate.

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

There are absolutely not the same. From VUDU Engineering:

Blu-ray far exceeds 9Mbps, with rates that target between 15-25Mbps and peak at 40Mbps. UHD discs peak at 108Mbps.

VUDU's HDX offers roughly twice the bitrate of iTunes (4.5-5Mbps) and nearly 4x other UV providers (2.5Mbps). HDX is very good and I prefer VUDU over Blu-ray for other reasons but pretending it's equivalent to Blu-ray is silly.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

Are you going to interview someone at VUDU? I'm curious how you seem to know already about the full potential of their variable bitrate when you apparently haven't gotten their official response on it yet.

I have 100 mbps internet, but VUDU still shows more compression than Blu-ray on my TV, and I use a Roku set top box for the app. One thing that could be negatively affecting my experience to an extent is that I don't have it plugged directly to the modem via Ethernet. I have my Roku connected via WiFi. But according to Speedtest, my WiFi typically stays above 50 mbps. My modem is too far away for me to plug it in directly, but it's still very close to the TV. Maybe 12 feet away?

UHD is very niche. I don't see that doing better than Blu-ray in the long run. Most people aren't clamoring for something better than HD at home. Sure, videophiles are excited about it, but even then it's not like the studios/manufacturers are making it easy to adopt this new format. There's HDR, Dolby Vision and several other things to consider and/or adjust on your TV, assuming your 4K TV even has those features included. Mine doesn't.

Digital takes home entertainment in the other direction by simplifying the process. You can watch movies in HD on almost any platform with digital. All you really need is a halfway solid internet connection. If you're consistently above DSL speeds, you're golden. No discs, no hassle. It definitely has the potential to be better than physical media, and though it isn't there quite yet, I trust it'll get there. But it does require internet, where discs don't.

My wife and I like to play online games, so we'd want strong internet even if streaming wasn't out there. So it's not like we have good internet just so we can stream. Good internet is almost a necessity these days, especially for people who work from home, which I plan to someday.

Also, people that say VUDU far exceeds the quality of Amazon and iTunes are speaking more from past experience. I find the quality of those other streaming providers to be of the same standards as VUDU these days. I watched Mad Max Fury Road Black & Chrome Edition on iTunes the other day and it looked amazing to me. I'm pretty much always satisfied with iTunes quality. I'm satisfied with all three. But for me the real difference is in the extras department. iTunes runs circles sround the others when it comes to bonus features. That's one of my favorite things about home media. Getting to learn more about the movie, or just generally adding something extra to the overall experience. Just having the movie by itself in solid quality is nice, but having quality extras too is awesome.

If the iTunes version includes all the extras found on the Blu-ray, why do I need the Blu-ray? I considered myself a videophile in the past, which is why I bought a 4K TV a couple years ago, but now I'm more of a content guy. Of course I will someday upgrade my TV again, and I'll go for something that is cutting-edge, but I won't obsess over it.

One of the things that initially attracted me to Blu-ray were the exclusive extras, which Disney was big about. Now Disney seems to add exclusive extras to DMA over the Blu-rays themselves. If and when Disney begins releasing 4K Blu-rays, I don't really foresee them including exclusive extras. So far, no 4K Blu-rays have. I'm not sure that HDR/DV is enough to get me excited about 4K BD, especially since nobody knows how to properly calibrate their TVs for it at the moment. And I am definitely not going to be someone who is constantly re-calibrating my TV depending on what content I'm watching. No thanks.

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Thing is these large companies will not i can assure you invest in older titles getting the love and attention that the independent labels give many of their releases. So what are we left with in the future as i said before " a digital mess" and the only films that might look half decent will be the the Hollywood CGI fodder that is being turned out. So i say again how can this be the future.

PS
UHD Blu Ray has surpassed all expected sales forecasts and looking at CES this year Blu Ray and Physical media is still on the up and up.

Still no answer on this one from the Download fans. I guess unless it's the latest Avengers film it really does not matter.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Still no answer on this one from the Download fans. I guess unless it's the latest Avengers film it really does not matter.

I have seen a number of older titles on Hulu that were "remastered" by Criterion. I'm not sure if they're still on there, thought I read something about Criterion getting pulled, but...

For the record, I still buy physical (bought "The Accountant" on Blu-ray today). There's just something about having an actual physical copy. I'm the same way with music, would rather have a CD than a download.

I'd also rather pay one time and have access to the content forever than to pay a monthly rate for access.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Still no answer on this one from the Download fans. I guess unless it's the latest Avengers film it really does not matter.

Phantasm (Remastered) was released digitally ahead of the barebones Blu-ray. It looked pretty good. I'm sure people can appreciate a restored/remastered film digitally about as much as they do on physical media. Plus there's less overhead for the distributor if they release it digitally versus pressing thousands of discs and printing covers for them. I'm not saying the savings would be passed on to the consumer, but it saves the company money, which means it'll take less sales before they turn a profit. Of course, the question does remain whether more people bought Phantasm (Remastered) digitally or physically. Or whether people bought it because it was remastered or just because they wanted Phantasm in HD.

[master gandhi]

I stand corrected (by myself) on one part. The BD wasn't barebones.

[Rocket Richard]

I'm still for streaming, but cannot give up on my James Bond Blu ray Collection. Pretty sure I'll buy the 4K box set in the future. But until then, I am content with Netflix, etc....

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now who is making stuff up. I was talking about Vudu, I don't know about iTunes. Vudu has variable BitRate depending on your Bandwidth. I know they have been increasing their BitRate according to your Access and Bandwidth. They don't have anymore published BitRates, what they did have are several years old. When I talk to Vudu I will have more information.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Are you going to interview someone at VUDU? I'm curious how you seem to know already about the full potential of their variable bitrate when you apparently haven't gotten their official response on it yet.

I have 100 mbps internet, but VUDU still shows more compression than Blu-ray on my TV, and I use a Roku set top box for the app. One thing that could be negatively affecting my experience to an extent is that I don't have it plugged directly to the modem via Ethernet. I have my Roku connected via WiFi. But according to Speedtest, my WiFi typically stays above 50 mbps. My modem is too far away for me to plug it in directly, but it's still very close to the TV. Maybe 12 feet away?

I know Master, I just like to Tweak these Disc Lovers so I kind of Embellish the information I have. Vudu has contacted me for an Interview, maybe they have seen my Postings. I remember a statistical class I took in College, and you can do so many things with the right Stats. I love Streaming Video, and I know it's going to be the way of the Future. First Run Movies right to your Home Theater!

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know Master, I just like to Tweak these Disc Lovers so I kind of Embellish the information I have. Vudu has contacted me for an Interview, maybe they have seen my Postings. I remember a statistical class I took in College, and you can do so many things with the right Stats. I love Streaming Video, and I know it's going to be the way of the Future. First Run Movies right to your Home Theater!

What kind of interview? Will it be published/posted somewhere official or just on this forum?