Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, Brick and Mortar Stores are having a hard time with certain Products like Blu-rays and DVD's. It's easier and better pricing when you shop OnLine. Here again, people don't want to pay Market Price, they feel Movies are way over priced. For a recent release Blu-ray is around $20 and UHD $25, but people want to pay way less. So most of the stock of Movies just sets there until the price goes down. I think for a recent release people want to pay around $10 or $15 for a Blu-ray or UHD. You will only get that pricing when the Movie is older or on a good sale. So that's why I feel Physical will fade away because of the pricing, better pricing for Digital. So if the Disc People want Physical to last then they have to start paying Market Price, otherwise it will fade for sure.

What makes physical profitable is that customers are willing to pay more for physical media than digital. Many aren't willing to pay $20 or $25 for Blu-ray but even less are willing to pay anywhere close to that for digital.

I've been buying physical media for over 20 years and price trends haven't changed much in that time. New releases launch for around $20. They pretty quickly drop to $10. Most titles drop to around $5 within a year or two. All 3 of those examples are "market price", they are the price that both buyers and sellers can agree on.

I see no reason why those trends wouldn't continue. Raising prices will mean less sales and therefore less profits overall. Dropping physical media will mean less sales at lower prices and therefore less profits overall.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, Brick and Mortar Stores are having a hard time with certain Products like Blu-rays and DVD's. It's easier and better pricing when you shop OnLine. Here again, people don't want to pay Market Price, they feel Movies are way over priced. For a recent release Blu-ray is around $20 and UHD $25, but people want to pay way less. So most of the stock of Movies just sets there until the price goes down. I think for a recent release people want to pay around $10 or $15 for a Blu-ray or UHD. You will only get that pricing when the Movie is older or on a good sale. So that's why I feel Physical will fade away because of the pricing, better pricing for Digital. So if the Disc People want Physical to last then they have to start paying Market Price, otherwise it will fade for sure.

Originally Posted by veritas

They do pay market price the market price that just happens to be $5 to $15 dollars. Consumers have almost an equal say in what the market price is and it would be foolish for the studios to ignore that. The studios can probably raise the cost of physical but most physical buyers are price elastic and the studios will lose billions trying to do it which is why prices tend to stay the same or go lower not higher. It also doesn't help that their are multiple studios and any time one of them raises prices the others mercilessly steal market share.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

What makes physical profitable is that customers are willing to pay more for physical media than digital. Many aren't willing to pay $20 or $25 for Blu-ray but even less are willing to pay anywhere close to that for digital.

I've been buying physical media for over 20 years and price trends haven't changed much in that time. New releases launch for around $20. They pretty quickly drop to $10. Most titles drop to around $5 within a year or two. All 3 of those examples are "market price", they are the price that both buyers and sellers can agree on.

I see no reason why those trends wouldn't continue. Raising prices will mean less sales and therefore less profits overall. Dropping physical media will mean less sales at lower prices and therefore less profits overall.

See both of you feel that $5 is a good price for Physical, and that will be the reason for it's Demise. I sell on eBay, and that is my bottom price with shipping, far from Market. If you guys are in the delusion that Discs should sell from $5 to $10, that's the reason Physical will fail. You guys blame Digital, but you should really take a realistic look at what you are saying. If it's all about Dollars and Cents to you, just think about the Studios and Distributors. It's all about Return on Investment, No Return, No Investment!

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See both of you feel that $5 is a good price for Physical, and that will be the reason for it's Demise. I sell on eBay, and that is my bottom price with shipping, far from Market. If you guys are in the delusion that Discs should sell from $5 to $10, that's the reason Physical will fail. You guys blame Digital, but you should really take a realistic look at what you are saying. If it's all about Dollars and Cents to you, just think about the Studios and Distributors. It's all about Return on Investment, No Return, No Investment!

But you are one guy selling things on ebay here and there, having ebay and paypal fees taken out, and then having to pay a relatively standard prices for shipping.

Major retailers deal in bulk to some extent or another. If Walmart or Best Buy are selling titles for around $5 each, while the studios get their cut, these retailers aren't dealing with ebay and paypal fees and the like. I know some retailers allow for paypal to be used, but I would imagine that they get negotiated lower fees. Even if that's not the case, the fees still aren't as big of a factor for them.

Then even for Amazon or the websites of stores like Best Buy and Walmart, when they ship items out, they have negotiated bulk rates that they pay for that. Free shipping typically comes with either a minimum spending threshold or some other kind of catch (i.e. paying for prime service, or spending enough with Best Buy to reach Elite status). Walmart will soon be experimenting with offering free shipping on all items on their site with no catch, sign up, etc. I'm curious on how long they can hold out doing it, but if they are able to do so and still turn a decent profit, then they must have good negotiated shipping rates.

The point is that you can't compare you selling on ebay to major retailers that sell physical media and assume the cost of doing business per unit/title is the same.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See both of you feel that $5 is a good price for Physical, and that will be the reason for it's Demise. I sell on eBay, and that is my bottom price with shipping, far from Market. If you guys are in the delusion that Discs should sell from $5 to $10, that's the reason Physical will fail. You guys blame Digital, but you should really take a realistic look at what you are saying. If it's all about Dollars and Cents to you, just think about the Studios and Distributors. It's all about Return on Investment, No Return, No Investment!

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But you are one guy selling things on ebay here and there, having ebay and paypal fees taken out, and then having to pay a relatively standard prices for shipping.

Major retailers deal in bulk to some extent or another. If Walmart or Best Buy are selling titles for around $5 each, while the studios get their cut, these retailers aren't dealing with ebay and paypal fees and the like. I know some retailers allow for paypal to be used, but I would imagine that they get negotiated lower fees. Even if that's not the case, the fees still aren't as big of a factor for them.

Then even for Amazon or the websites of stores like Best Buy and Walmart, when they ship items out, they have negotiated bulk rates that they pay for that. Free shipping typically comes with either a minimum spending threshold or some other kind of catch (i.e. paying for prime service, or spending enough with Best Buy to reach Elite status). Walmart will soon be experimenting with offering free shipping on all items on their site with no catch, sign up, etc. I'm curious on how long they can hold out doing it, but if they are able to do so and still turn a decent profit, then they must have good negotiated shipping rates.

The point is that you can't compare you selling on ebay to major retailers that sell physical media and assume the cost of doing business per unit/title is the same.

I know, I'm at the bottom of the food chain, and the Blu-rays I'm selling are several years old. I sell recent releases and popular Movies at Buy-it-Now or Best Offer, and I keep lowering the price until it sells, and $5 is the Rock Bottom Price. So if I'm not making money at this price, I'm sure Studios and Distributors aren't either. The thinking is just make more and sell at lower prices, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot more that goes into the cost of Movies, and just stamping out more and selling them for a few dollars is not going to cut it.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know, I'm at the bottom of the food chain, and the Blu-rays I'm selling are several years old. I sell recent releases and popular Movies at Buy-it-Now or Best Offer, and I keep lowering the price until it sells, and $5 is the Rock Bottom Price. So if I'm not making money at this price, I'm sure Studios and Distributors aren't either. The thinking is just make more and sell at lower prices, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot more that goes into the cost of Movies, and just stamping out more and selling them for a few dollars is not going to cut it.

A huge number of people are buying Blu-ray/digital combo packs (including you apparently) so that's what will keep being made. Whether they're being bought primarily for the digital copy or primarily for the Blu-ray is irrelevant; combo packs sell well so the studios will keep making combo packs.

By the way, market price is the price for which a good or service is offered in the marketplace. If Blu-rays are frequently selling for $20 that's market price, if they are frequently selling for $5 that's also market price.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

A huge number of people are buying Blu-ray/digital combo packs (including you apparently) so that's what will keep being made. Whether they're being bought primarily for the digital copy or primarily for the Blu-ray is irrelevant; combo packs sell well so the studios will keep making combo packs.

By the way, market price is the price for which a good or service is offered in the marketplace. If Blu-rays are frequently selling for $20 that's market price, if they are frequently selling for $5 that's also market price.

I hope digital always comes with the blu's. I just want them to all drop the DVD

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

I hope digital always comes with the blu's. I just want them to all drop the DVD

Why? What's the harm in getting a free DVD with your Blu-ray?

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by veritas

If you fast forward or rewind Vudu has a very high chance of glitching the audio or subtitles out of sync to the picture and it doesnt recover from it until you reboot the stream.

Netflix has a few slight glitches but mostly it just makes the whole video rebuffer and its not very precise on small backward jumps. I would not call Netflix method of scrubbing much of a concern but it can be annoying if you want to rewind lets say 10 secs to rehear a joke (sometimes it wont work at all on small jumps like this).

Strange. I have never had this happen to me. Granted, I don't use subtitles, but the audio is never out of sync. Also, fast forward/rewind stops on a dime for me. Using Roku 3's and Ultra.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know, I'm at the bottom of the food chain, and the Blu-rays I'm selling are several years old. I sell recent releases and popular Movies at Buy-it-Now or Best Offer, and I keep lowering the price until it sells, and $5 is the Rock Bottom Price. So if I'm not making money at this price, I'm sure Studios and Distributors aren't either. The thinking is just make more and sell at lower prices, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot more that goes into the cost of Movies, and just stamping out more and selling them for a few dollars is not going to cut it.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

A huge number of people are buying Blu-ray/digital combo packs (including you apparently) so that's what will keep being made. Whether they're being bought primarily for the digital copy or primarily for the Blu-ray is irrelevant; combo packs sell well so the studios will keep making combo packs.

By the way, market price is the price for which a good or service is offered in the marketplace. If Blu-rays are frequently selling for $20 that's market price, if they are frequently selling for $5 that's also market price.

Wait let me get this straight, you want to Preserve the Art's and Physical but you don't want to pay for it. You're right the Market sets the Price, and I guess you guys feel it should be $5 for Blu-rays. I know my selling is a tiny window, but there isn't enough Profit Margin in selling Blu-rays for $5. Right now the Studios don't care whether your buying Blu-ray or Digital as long as you are buying the Movie. Like you I shop for the best price, mine has to do with Digital and yours Physical. The reason I buy Combo Packs are for the Early Release and to re-coup my money. If people only want to pay $5 for my Blu-ray, I won't re-coup my money so I will have to change that strategy. So I'm sure it will come down to shopping for the best price in Digital or Physical, and I feel Digital will win!

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Why? What's the harm in getting a free DVD with your Blu-ray?

It's pointless. It's 20 year old tech. Sometimes I just give those away. No need for me to have them.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by flyry

It's pointless. It's 20 year old tech. Sometimes I just give those away. No need for me to have them.

Well....if you give them away, then someone wants them and can use them. Lots of people still buy dvd's. Not me, lol, but lots of people still do.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So I'm sure it will come down to shopping for the best price in Digital or Physical, and I feel Digital will win!

Based on what? You're currently buying combo packs because they are the best price. What makes you think digital by itself will be the best price in the future?

It's cheaper for the studios to provide digital by itself but that isn't really relevant. The studios will charge however much they think people will pay. No titles are ever going to launch for $10 on any format because they don't want people to be used to that price. Nor will any titles launch for $50 on any format (like you predicted 8K discs will be) because hardly anyone would be willing to pay that.

Personally I buy a lot of UHD and Blu-ray 3D discs at or near launch and sell the included Blu-ray discs. From the studios' perspective that just means that UHD combos and Blu-ray 3D combos are selling well so that's what they'll keep making.

When you buy a Blu-ray / digital combo near launch and sell the included Blu-ray disc that has the same effect. From the studios' perspective Blu-ray / digital combos are selling well so that's what they'll keep making.

Since you're buying combos it turns out we're not even on opposite sides... we're buying the same things.

Originally Posted by flyry

It's pointless. It's 20 year old tech. Sometimes I just give those away. No need for me to have them.

So you'd prefer if the people you're giving them to didn't get free DVDs? What's the benefit of that?

[Member-353571]

Well Vudu has lost me as a customer. I lost access to a title I purchased. At least access to the quality level of the film I paid for.

I purchased the HD version of a movie called "Triangle". HDX was not an available option. Since they have removed HD, SD is now the only playback option. I and several others posted about this in their forums. Vudu's response? Quoted from FelipeF of Vudu, "The studio responsible for this title has gone out of business. No one else has claimed the rights for this content. There's no way to get a new encode for this title I'm afraid. SD will be the only quality available."

So in other words, "Oh well." I will strongly discourage anyone from buying from Vudu, and I know I never will again if I can't trust to have access to the movies I paid for.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wait let me get this straight, you want to Preserve the Art's and Physical but you don't want to pay for it.

Did you miss the part in his post where he points out that movies selling for $20 is market price? Not everyone is waiting for every movie to be $5.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wait let me get this straight, you want to Preserve the Art's and Physical but you don't want to pay for it.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Did you miss the part in his post where he points out that movies selling for $20 is market price? Not everyone is waiting for every movie to be $5.

No I got that point, but his ideal price is less than $20 and I think that is shared by a lot of people now. Like I said, I sell on eBay and no one wants to pay full price anymore. Closer to half or less, and they want Free Shipping.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

Well Vudu has lost me as a customer. I lost access to a title I purchased. At least access to the quality level of the film I paid for.

I purchased the HD version of a movie called "Triangle". HDX was not an available option. Since they have removed HD, SD is now the only playback option. I and several others posted about this in their forums. Vudu's response? Quoted from FelipeF of Vudu, "The studio responsible for this title has gone out of business. No one else has claimed the rights for this content. There's no way to get a new encode for this title I'm afraid. SD will be the only quality available."

So in other words, "Oh well." I will strongly discourage anyone from buying from Vudu, and I know I never will again if I can't trust to have access to the movies I paid for.

It looks like there is an HDX version on Vudu. I'm surprised they couldn't move you from HD to HDX, I think that's what usually happens. I wouldn't have bought it since it lacks UV rights, but you still should get HDX. Worse case HDX is $10.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

No I got that point, but his ideal price is less than $20 and I think that is shared by a lot of people now. Like I said, I sell on eBay and no one wants to pay full price anymore. Closer to half or less, and they want Free Shipping.

You can't really compare eBay sales to major retailer sales. Plenty of people are buying brand new copies at launch for $20 at Amazon, Best Buy, Target, or Wal-Mart. Why would they be willing to buy a used copy with missing parts on eBay for close to the same price?

[Member-353571]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

It looks like there is an HDX version on Vudu. I'm surprised they couldn't move you from HD to HDX, I think that's what usually happens. I wouldn't have bought it since it lacks UV rights, but you still should get HDX. Worse case HDX is $10.

I believe you're looking at a different movie. This is the one that's being discussed:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

I believe you're looking at a different movie. This is the one that's being discussed:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/?ref_=nv_sr_1

And here it is on VUDU, it's not available to purchase at all:

http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content/174890/Triangle

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So you'd prefer if the people you're giving them to didn't get free DVDs? What's the benefit of that?

I think I actually have a small pile of DVDs I haven't given away somewhere. I don't even like them in the case.

Besides anyone I would give it to is already on my Vudu ultraviolet plan and can see it because I always redeem my UV codes and they can watch it in HD