Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[MifuneFan]

Kino has just announce plans to release The Spiral Staircase (1946) on Blu-ray!

Originally Posted by MisterLime

Coming Soon on DVD and Blu-ray!
Oscar Nominee: Best Supporting Actress (Barrymore)

The Spiral Staircase (1946) Starring Dorothy McGuire, George Brent, Ethel Barrymore, Kent Smith, Rhonda Fleming, Elsa Lachester and Sara Allgood - Based on a Novel by Ethel Lina White (The Lady Vanishes) - Shot by Nicholas Musuraca (Out of the Past, Cat People) - Directed by Robert Siodmak (Criss Cross, Cry of the City)

[donald.brown]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Kino has just announce plans to release The Spiral Staircase (1946) on Blu-ray!

Although this is one of my favorite movies, it is not a film noir.
It's a lean, mean suspense shocker!

[Akijama]

The Spiral Staricase is as much of a noir film as Night of the Living Dead.

It's straight up thriller. Using Wikipedia and personal blogs as a guide to noir film is not the smartest idea out there, just saying.


It's just a matter of time before every classic/B&W movie get labeled as noir.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Akijama

The Spiral Staricase is as much of a noir film as Night of the Living Dead.

It's straight up thriller. Using Wikipedia and personal blogs as a guide to noir film is not the smartest idea out there, just saying.


It's just a matter of time before every classic/B&W movie get labeled as noir.

Not sure what your deal is. I haven't seen the film, but when The Great Owl, and noirjunkie are both excited for its release among others, and commented on it, comes from a director known for noir, and the fact that various sources point to it being noir, I felt it was safe to be added. If it's not, then it can be removed just as easily.

The thread has been around for 3+ years, and your slippery slope fear mongering has not happened, nor do I see it ever happening

[Akijama]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Not sure what your deal is. I haven't seen the film, but when The Great Owl, and noirjunkie are both excited for its release among others, and commented on it, and the fact that various sources point to it being noir, I felt it was safe to be added. If it's not, then it can be removed just as easily.

The thread has been around for 3+ years, and your slippery slope fear mongering has not happened, nor do I see it ever happening

The deal is: not every black & white movie should be referried to as noir. The definition of noir film is already muddled as it is. That is and was the whole point.

Believe me, I don't care what titles are you including in the OP, or you personally consider as a noirs, just pointing out the obvious. In other words, if you're perceiving this as some kind of a personal attack, that's solely your problem.

And, I'm sure that mighty Great Owl and that other dude are getting excited about a lot non-noir titles as well.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Akijama

The deal is: not every black & white movie should be referried to as noir. The definition of noir film is already muddled as it is. That is and was the whole point.

Believe me, I don't care what titles are you including in the OP, or you personally consider as a noirs, just pointing out the obvious. In other words, if you're perceiving this as some kind of a personal attack, that's solely your problem.

And, I'm sure that mighty Great Owl and that other dude are getting excited about a lot non-noir titles as well.

Please point to me where is every black and white movie is being referred to as noir? Logically speaking, for someone who has not seen the film, do you not see why I would think it may be a noir based on what I said? Even Kino's announcement lists noir credits of other films done by the director and cinematographer in their announcement. Other members have also stated seeing it, one on a noir bender, so it's not like I'm saying "oh it's a b/w film, therefore it's noir". This is an ever evolving list that relies on feedback. I'm certainly no expert, nor ever claimed to be. People give suggestions all the time, and I have no problems whatsoever changing things.

There's zero need for your kinds of posts however. Your previous post, as well as this one comes off pretty smug, and even a little disrespectful to other respected members on here. Again, don't know what your deal is today, but maybe go out and get some fresh air or something.

[The Great Owl]

Here's a good case for The Spiral Staircase to be considered film noir.

Here's another good case for The Spiral Staircase to be considered film noir.

At the least, it's a "noir-stained" film. A great many of the titles that I have in the film noir section of my collection are noir-stained, in the same way that many of the titles, especially Olive Films and Kino Lorber titles, listed as film noir on this site are merely noir-stained.

[oildude]

The Spiral Staircase has frequently been referred to as a film noir psychological thriller and as an example of an atypical film noir. As Owl would say, it is noir-stained. Eddie Muller has even screened it at his Noir City festival.

It is listed on many film noir lists and in several of my film noir books, including this one:



Page 102, among noir films for 1946 that include Gilda, Deadline at Dawn, and The Blue Dahlia.

It most definitely qualifies for this thread, where there are similar atypical films and noir-stained entries.

[tommasi]

Originally Posted by tallrichard

Blood on the Moon is my favorite Western Noir...I never realized there were enough western noirs to write a book about the subject.

Doesn't have to be, every book on film noir includes hundreds of films that don't belong.

[jetthead]

I haven't seen the film myself but, for what it's worth, Spencer Selby lists The Spiral Staircase as a noir in his book Dark City The Film Noir.

[eidas]

The eternal 'What is film-noir' question will never be resolved perfectly. Unlike other genres, it's more than a genre. It's about style and mood, and also history. How ironic that a class of films so starkly seen in blacks and whites, should invariably be parsed with words of diluted grey. I think it's fine that Akijama plugs us back into a reality check of sorts. With all the noir afficianados on this board surprisingly few get into the nitty gritty of the movies themselves. The Great Owl now and then drops a line. Why doesn't everyone? It seems that if one and all rolled up their sleeves more often to discuss their favorite shot in the dark or kiss of death, that a natural consensus might set itself up as to the criteria of what makes a film noir. And without the need to defer to the experts. Even Eddie Muller can miss the ball with his talk about neglected 'ladies film noir' when in reality the bigger issue is the dearth of women's stories in cinema as a whole.

Although it may be impossible to draw a definitive line, when categories such as Brit-noir or Western-noir start to permeate the conversation something has gone too far. Neo-noir? Why not just call it 'Hommage-noir'. Imagine a scene from the vaults with a Julie Andrews in the bath singing a reprise of "The hills are alive...." only to be bludgeoned to death in the next instant (to our relief) by a hammer-toting homomaniac who flunked out of Cromartie High. Would the police procedural be labeled a 'noir-stained' musical or simply a musically-tainted thriller? No, you can only split a hair so fine.

There have got to be a minimum set of rules. So here are mine that i submit to the lion's den: Nothing before 1940 nor after 1959. To me film noir is a post-war phenomenon. It rose slowly in the early forties, peaked around 1945 and remained at cruise altitude for a decade before starting a descent that landed with the start of the 60s. 20 years, nice and neat. Film noir is an American gig. Produced and set in a mostly urban USA. Yes, I keep 'The Third Man' in my noir folder. A mistake, a hypocritical exception. But no Bollywood noir, no Fred Astaire noir, no Surf City noir. Finally, no technicolor noir, cinerama noir, 3D or dolby surround noir either. Nice toys, but let's keep to the period.

Anything else is debatable. And the rest of the conversation should be about Good-noir vs Bad-noir.

Keep up the good work work Toshiro.

[noirjunkie]

Wow, I certainly didn't expect such a debate to break out over including The Spiral Staircase in the OP. It is a typical noir? No. Does it have enough noir elements to be included in the OP? Yes.

[Akijama]

I'm pretty sure that 'noir elements' can be found in every single movie ever made.

There's isn't anything noir-ish about The Spiral Staircase, save for its B/W photography and that it contains some crime elements.

[CBHampson]

Originally Posted by eidas

There have got to be a minimum set of rules. So here are mine that i submit to the lion's den: Nothing before 1940 nor after 1959. To me film noir is a post-war phenomenon. It rose slowly in the early forties, peaked around 1945 and remained at cruise altitude for a decade before starting a descent that landed with start of the 60s. 20 years, nice and neat. Film noir is an American gig. Produced and set in a mostly urban USA. Yes, I keep 'The Third Man' in my noir folder. A terrible mistake, a hypocritical exception. But no Bollywood noir, no Fred Astaire noir, no Surf City noir. Finally, no technicolor noir, cinerama noir nor dolby surround noir either. Nice toys, but let's keep to the period.

Anything else is debatable. And the rest of the conversation should be about Good-noir vs Bad-noir.

Keep up the good work work Toshiro.

I pretty much agree with this, in an unusual way. I know many don't like to consider noir a genre in itself, but for films that meet the rules you laid out, I personally do. Films like Double Indemnity, Out of The Past, etc are
"FILMS NOIR" like Airplane! is a comedy or The Exorcist is a horror film. That said, when the aesthetics and themes of noir creep into other films, even when they nearly overwhelm them, I have no issue including the noir label in their description.

At least in my mind, it allows me to stretch what I consider noir, neo-noir, foreign-noir, etc while maintaining a baseline group of films that are themselves the definitive examples of the NOIR genre.

Of course, this is just one junkies take, and no one has the "true" answer as to what is and isn't noir.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Akijama

I'm pretty sure that 'noir elements' can be found in every single movie ever made.

Please stop. At this point, it just seems like you're trolling, and this thread has -- to this point -- remained blissfully free of that sort of conduct.

[jetthead]

Regardless of its "Noir creds", I will be purchasing The Spiral Staircase (and Another Man's Poison too!)

[MifuneFan]

Twilight Time (by way of HTF) have announced plans to release Inferno 3D (1953) on May 16th. Previously, the film has a region free UK release by the label Panamint Cinema. More details will be added when they come in.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by eidas

Great thread here. The eternal 'What is film-noir' question will never be resolved perfectly. (snip)

I'm inclined to paraphrase how author/critic Damon Knight defined science fiction: "Film noir is whatever I point to and say, 'That's film noir'."

[silverlakephil]

Today is Jack Palance Birthday, and I just finished watching Sudden Fear also starring the great Joan Crawford. A really excellent Noir. It should be in everyone's collection.

[eidas]

3D Inferno? Toshiro, it's as though you were taking dead aim at me: Brit director, in the desert, crappy technicolor and multi-dimensional image and sound. You've forced me to refine my earlier post. One non-negligeable plus of this movie at least is that you get to see Rhonda Fleming's tits in 3D. That said we're hardly in Porno-noir territory.

Ok, I'll take a stab at launching some fodder for a little weekend poll. Which film noir has the best writing/dialogue of them all. My candidate is Sunset Boulevard. Can you really top Billy Wilder?

@silverlakephil

Yep, Sudden Fear starts slow but picks up as it goes along. I'm especially attached to it as it was the first Hollywood film to have been made (partly) in the North Bay town where I grew up.