Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Since when? I have never had a film go missing. Also I have all my digital collection on five hosting platforms. Should one ever go away. Also movie collecting is a sickness and this way I can also hide my sickness.

Digital distribution is very new at this point. Do you really expect all of your movies will still be available for decades when they aren't making a profit? Thousands of physical movies have gone out of print but the used market prevents any of them from being unavailable. But a used market doesn't exist for digital distribution. When movies are no longer officially offered because they are unprofitable or there are licensing disputes they'll become completely unavailable.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Since when? I have never had a film go missing. Also I have all my digital collection on five hosting platforms. Should one ever go away. Also movie collecting is a sickness and this way I can also hide my sickness.

Just pay attention and you will see digital movies vanish from your collection once in a while. I only have 200 movies but I have noticed movies disappearing not showing up and refusing to play 4 separate times this year personally. First vudu glitches out and some movies vanish from peoples collections. Then sony videos authorization broke making sonys videos unplayable for a few hours. Then disney and iTunes stopped talking to each other. Their was also a vanishing copy of the aladdin sequals some people had last year and a few times where peoples hd movies turned into sd movies due to the way company handled the rights.

I don't use my digital copies that often but the servers are actually rather prone to errors if you pay attention. I think one of the major distributors has a major screw up where multiple films vanish from peoples accounts around 4 times per year going off personal experience but if I used digital more often I am sure the number would go higher.

[master gandhi]

I support digital because I hate movies and want them to be taken away from me and stop getting made. That's my ultimate goal. Oh yeah, and convenience. I hate movies and I love convenience. I'm the opposite of disc lovers, who love movies and loathe convenience. I suck. Plus, I'm lazy.

Oh wait, no. You almost convinced me that was true. Dang, I'm so gullible. I'll fall for anything. I love movies and convenience, but after reading the counter-arguments, I was thinking I must be evil. Glad I remembered I'm not. That would've made for a crappy rest of my life.

Moral of this snarkiness. Can you both love digital and love movies? Yes. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

They call us lazy. What have we called them? Not sure. Keep hurling insults at us. It seems to be working.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

So you're saying digital supporters aren't lazy. Cool! Thanks for the support!

I wasn't involved in the discussion about laziness, my post was meant to be separate from that. There are a lot of people that don't do those things I mentioned, and only stream off of Netflix and/or a few other streaming services, so laziness can certainly apply to them.

Now back to the people that do waste a lot of their time setting up home servers, ripping discs, searching for and downloading files etc, just to avoid such things as piracy warnings, a lot of these individuals are pirates, which I do not condone. Can you honestly say that you don't have any pirated content on hard drives and devices in your home, and have paid for everything? Because I can.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by randian

Apparently a lot of people like DVDs since Walmart has gotten rid of most of their blu-rays in-store.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Blurays are rivals to their Vudu digital copies, it would make sense. Also, isn't Walmart a store where people buy mostly cheap goods? DVD's would also make sense.

I don't know about your WalMart, but ours has a lot of Blu-rays. They do have a large collection of B-Movies DVD's, but their Blu-rays are still in display. WalMart use to be like an up-scale K-Mart, but not anymore they sell all kinds of Goods and their SuperStores rival any Market Place.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I wasn't involved in the discussion about laziness, my post was meant to be separate from that. There are a lot of people that don't do those things I mentioned, and only stream off of Netflix and/or a few other streaming services, so laziness can certainly apply to them.

Now back to the people that do waste a lot of their time setting up home servers, ripping discs, searching for and downloading files etc, just to avoid such things as piracy warnings, a lot of these individuals are pirates, which I do not condone. Can you honestly say that you don't have any pirated content on hard drives and devices in your home, and have paid for everything? Because I can.

Yes, I'm anti-piracy too. I buy and/or redeem my digital copies. If I convert a disc to digital it's via VUDU's Disc-To-Digital program. When that doesn't work, I wait for a sale/coupon code.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by veritas

Just pay attention and you will see digital movies vanish from your collection once in a while. I only have 200 movies but I have noticed movies disappearing not showing up and refusing to play 4 separate times this year personally. First vudu glitches out and some movies vanish from peoples collections. Then sony videos authorization broke making sonys videos unplayable for a few hours. Then disney and iTunes stopped talking to each other. Their was also a vanishing copy of the aladdin sequals some people had last year and a few times where peoples hd movies turned into sd movies due to the way company handled the rights.

I don't use my digital copies that often but the servers are actually rather prone to errors if you pay attention. I think one of the major distributors has a major screw up where multiple films vanish from peoples accounts around 4 times per year going off personal experience but if I used digital more often I am sure the number would go higher.

Were these movies that you say disappeared from some peoples accounts purchased or codes redeemed directly through the service that they disappeared from? For example if a movie disappeared from someone's Vudu library, was that movie purchased directly through Vudu or was the UV code redeemed directly through Vudu? What about Disney and iTunes that you say stopped talking to each other, were those Disney movies purchased directly through iTunes or was the DMA code redeemed directly through iTunes? Is this a problem with UV linking and DMA linking? Also let's say if a person redeem his UV code through Flixster and it ported over to Vudu, Flixster a few years later goes out of business, will that UV movie also disappear in his Vudu library if that happens?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Were these movies that you say disappeared from some peoples accounts purchased or codes redeemed directly through the service that they disappeared from? For example if a movie disappeared from someone's Vudu library, was that movie purchased directly through Vudu or was the UV code redeemed directly through Vudu? What about Disney and iTunes that you say stopped talking to each other, were those Disney movies purchased directly through iTunes or was the DMA code redeemed directly through iTunes? Is this a problem with UV linking and DMA linking? Also let's say if a person redeem his UV code through Flixster and it ported over to Vudu, Flixster a few years later goes out of business, will that UV movie also disappear in his Vudu library if that happens?

These are great questions that I'd like to know the answers to as well. DMA and UV are meant to safeguard our movies in a way, I thought. So if you bought a Disney movie on VUDU and VUDU goes out of business, it would still be in your DMA account, and therefore accessible through other linked services. Same thing with UV. I would hope/assume that a code redeemed via Flixster/FandangoNow would add the movie to your UV collection permanently, even if those services went out of business. I know you can get a movie refunded from VUDU and other places, so those would then be removed from your UV, but my guess is that VUDU would be actively de-authorizing that title in your collection. Hopefully I'm right. I'll admit there are some unknowns when it comes to digital.

[Steedeel]

The fact you even have to ask these questions should tell you everything.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

I love that with my Vudu account in can put a movie in and me, my parents, my friends, and my in-laws all can watch the same collection of movies. I watch a movie with my parents every single weekend and finding what they want to watch can be difficult....With discs damn near impossible. I would bring a handful of movies and none fit what they feel like. With VUDU just log in and look for whatever the hell you want to watch. Similar principal while going over our friends place. When we're home we only watch discs (I don't have internet at home...Only my phone). However even I can see the benefits of the VUDU collection.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Your multidisc player? What do you think I am talking about. Are you saying you wouldn't bother with streaming if you had a multidisc player for a decent price? If you are, I don't believe you. It's just inventing excuses to justify the exceptance of far inferior quality for the sake of a few seconds. I'm sorry but it is just laziness IMO. Do you honestly see it as a hardship to have to put a disc in a player? I mean you still have to search through your digital collection as well.

I can answer this honestly. I was very interested in the blu-ray multi-disc changers. However, they were prohibitively expensive. I even gave Kaleidescape a peek, until I saw that their stuff was even more expensive than the Sony changers.

It's not just about the "physical activity" of putting a disc into a player. When I want to watch a movie, I usually don't know exactly what I want to see. It's much more convenient to open an app and browse my collection than go over to my BD/DVD spinning tower and look at the discs. The point is, I go from browsing to watching much faster with digital than I do with physical media, and that's what is important to me.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Your multidisc player? What do you think I am talking about. Are you saying you wouldn't bother with streaming if you had a multidisc player for a decent price? If you are, I don't believe you. It's just inventing excuses to justify the exceptance of far inferior quality for the sake of a few seconds. I'm sorry but it is just laziness IMO. Do you honestly see it as a hardship to have to put a disc in a player? I mean you still have to search through your digital collection as well.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Digital distribution is very new at this point. Do you really expect all of your movies will still be available for decades when they aren't making a profit? Thousands of physical movies have gone out of print but the used market prevents any of them from being unavailable. But a used market doesn't exist for digital distribution. When movies are no longer officially offered because they are unprofitable or there are licensing disputes they'll become completely unavailable.

See my main complaint are these people that put down Digital HD because they don't have a proper set up. Just in the time this Tread has been going BitRates have been going up, if a Provider can deliver UHD Streaming at 25+Mbps it can provide higher BitRates for Digital HD too. So if you are judging Video Quality on Downloads or Speeds less than 50mbps plus over a Wireless Connection, then you have no justification for your comments. Cinema Theaters Stream to their Digital Projectors from Secure Servers, there is nothing stopping Streaming Providers to do the same. So there are more to Digital HD than convenience, Video and Sound Quality are approaching Disc faster than we know.

As for Movies being available this has nothing to do with profitability, just like a Disc when a Format is released it remains out there on the Servers. The problems come in when a Format change is needed, then older Movies may not be updated.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

These are great questions that I'd like to know the answers to as well. DMA and UV are meant to safeguard our movies in a way, I thought. So if you bought a Disney movie on VUDU and VUDU goes out of business, it would still be in your DMA account, and therefore accessible through other linked services. Same thing with UV. I would hope/assume that a code redeemed via Flixster/FandangoNow would add the movie to your UV collection permanently, even if those services went out of business. I know you can get a movie refunded from VUDU and other places, so those would then be removed from your UV, but my guess is that VUDU would be actively de-authorizing that title in your collection. Hopefully I'm right. I'll admit there are some unknowns when it comes to digital.

When I unlinked my Vudu account to my UV account i would be missing movies from the codes not redeemed through Vudu but another UV provider until I relinked my Vudu account to my UV account. I wonder if something like this would happen if Flixster, Paramount, Sony, Fandango, Disney went out of business or their digital movie services dropped since I have a few UV movie codes redeemed through those providers and a few DMA codes redeemed through Disney but they are all linked to my Vudu account?

[on and on]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I think a lot of digital supporters are. Why else would they give up quality and control for extra convenience?

most people never cared for quality. hasn't always been what's quick/smaller and more convenient winning ???

passive kids are passive and just go along with whatever put in front of them/what takes the least effort tine/what's cheaper or just go along with everyone says at the time. remember all those people that just repeated mp3 at a bitrate of 128 was as good as a cd. did they even do a rip at higher bitrate to test for themselves ? nope...they even listen to different rips to hear a difference ?? guess they couldn't do that either.

put somehow we got past the 128 rip days.you know, once everyone else changed.(and it said alot of the change with the public had more with hard drive space getting cheaper/than sound quality) *sigh*...



i mean cassettes took the market from vinyl back in the day.(when do we get a movie about that ??)who says cassettes are better now ???

how many of these digital copy people will ever once make their own digital copy ?? or even know it's possible to do so ??? *ha ha*

i know there's exceptions on this site. but with the general population/you know what i mean...

and i don't know if matters anyway everything look beyond beyond hi def on a phone screen anyway...

and yes it is win/win. i've won a few "i just opened the disc to get the digital code" type auctions on ebay.

i've even a few times been the person that selling just the digital code with no discs.

i don't do streaming blah blah not because i'm too pure,but because i don't care. don't have the energy...

if do streaming still gonna prefer the physical discs. and i'll likely want to buy the disc if the wallet allows...

so for me if i ever streaming it would be to see things i'm curious about and never seen. not to have a digital locker. with 5000 films.

and the people in this thread that mention plenty that they know don't buy physical media any more. is very believable. it's like it's the cool thing to say/do.

people with nice paying jobs/the income to buy discs. are the proudest to say they don'y own a cd or dvd or blu ray. nor do they want to own any...

[Steedeel]

All of the reasons for buying Digital are something I expect to hear from the masses, not members of this forum who are film fanatics/home cinema enthusiasts. Surely the highest quality deserves a little more time (as in a few seconds) it saddens me, it really does.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

I can answer this honestly. I was very interested in the blu-ray multi-disc changers. However, they were prohibitively expensive. I even gave Kaleidescape a peek, until I saw that their stuff was even more expensive than the Sony changers.

It's not just about the "physical activity" of putting a disc into a player. When I want to watch a movie, I usually don't know exactly what I want to see. It's much more convenient to open an app and browse my collection than go over to my BD/DVD spinning tower and look at the discs. The point is, I go from browsing to watching much faster with digital than I do with physical media, and that's what is important to me.

Convenient is becoming my most hated word of this decade. It isn't convenient to me to sacrifice A/V quality.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See my main complaint are these people that put down Digital HD because they don't have a proper set up. Just in the time this Tread has been going BitRates have been going up, if a Provider can deliver UHD Streaming at 25+Mbps it can provide higher BitRates for Digital HD too. So if you are judging Video Quality on Downloads or Speeds less than 50mbps plus over a Wireless Connection, then you have no justification for your comments. Cinema Theaters Stream to their Digital Projectors from Secure Servers, there is nothing stopping Streaming Providers to do the same. So there are more to Digital HD than convenience, Video and Sound Quality are approaching Disc faster than we know.

As for Movies being available this has nothing to do with profitability, just like a Disc when a Format is released it remains out there on the Servers. The problems come in when a Format change is needed, then older Movies may not be updated.

Just give me a 4K disc with the very best A/V quality. I guarantee your stuff isn't comparing to that. You will always be paying catch up, 8K disc will be next.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

When I want to watch a movie, I usually don't know exactly what I want to see. It's much more convenient to open an app and browse my collection than go over to my BD/DVD spinning tower and look at the discs.

That's what this page is for:

https://www.blu-ray.com/community/co...on.php?u=62784

Picking out the movie from a page like that is pretty much the same as picking it out from an app. Once I know what I want the act of finding the disc and putting it in the player takes less than a minute.

Originally Posted by alchav21

As for Movies being available this has nothing to do with profitability, just like a Disc when a Format is released it remains out there on the Servers. The problems come in when a Format change is needed, then older Movies may not be updated.

I've already stated that thousands of digital movies have been removed from sale. I guarantee that the studios still have copies themselves but if customers don't have access to them then what good does that do? Since you clearly don't believe me whenever I say that here's some examples:

https://www.amazon.com/Human-Target-...dp/B004CW7IV6/
https://www.amazon.com/Vicious/dp/B002TZPM2A/
https://www.amazon.com/The-Onion-Fie...dp/B00DFX6846/
https://www.amazon.com/Sleep-My-Love...dp/B01COK7Q0K/
https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Mick-...dp/B013JOUM92/
https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Floyd-Wall/dp/B00G3HTPIC/
https://www.amazon.com/Married-Chris...dp/B01N1S2VAR/
https://www.amazon.com/Contender-Joa...dp/B0034KATPO/
https://www.amazon.com/Hawks-Timothy...dp/B01A3WHCQY/
https://www.amazon.com/Love-Spell-Ri.../dp/B01CAYHSIA
https://www.amazon.com/Movies/dp/B002Q7AXPC/
https://www.amazon.com/Manifesto-Mis...dp/B01KER2EMK/
https://www.amazon.com/Mara-Wilderne...dp/B009TFF7XC/
https://www.amazon.com/House-Hunters...dp/B000H0UDD2/
https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Awake...dp/B009AK40XY/
https://www.amazon.com/Football-Fact...dp/B01AU1CI2G/
https://www.amazon.com/Second-Chance...dp/B00RNV4Y4C/
https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-the-Abyss/dp/B00CDUA2LW/
https://www.amazon.com/Bomber-Boys-F...dp/B001CJQHI2/
https://www.amazon.com/Lie-to-Me-Sea...dp/B00AUQ0BQC/
https://www.amazon.com/Extras-02/dp/B006GLN0PY/

You can see thousands more if you Google the following phrase exactly:

site:amazon.com "Our agreements with the content provider don’t allow purchases of"

[Steedeel]

Another issue I have is the constant experimentation with Digital. Take Netflix, it is obvious to me they are trying to shape their service for a mostly mobile future. Some of the noises they have made in the last six months proves that point. A while back, didn't Hastings say words to the effect of 'we see most engagement with the tv' now all the noises is of shows being reformatted to better fit the mobile experience and 'mobile is our biggest audience' type quotes.

I believe Apple and AT&T are also looking into interactive tv as well as Netflix.
They want 'choose your own adventure' style movies and tv.
So, not only have we moved from film to digital in our cinemas, they want us to abandon quality for convenience and finally, they want to rip the art out of my favourite style of storytelling, (film). They want to kill film altogether. This time next year, we will get blogs/articles asking if interactive tv is going to replace traditional film and tv' and this sorry cycle continues. I can see it now, instead of the wonderful psssive experience we have now, it will be pressing your remote or touchscreen every 40 seconds and having to decide on Twitter what you have to do, because ' like everyone else is, like doing that and it's so, like engrossing'

You Digital guys are driving us to this future and the early experiments have already started.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

That's what this page is for:

https://www.blu-ray.com/community/co...on.php?u=62784

Picking out the movie from a page like that is pretty much the same as picking it out from an app. Once I know what I want the act of finding the disc and putting it in the player takes less than a minute.

First of all, nice.

My main issue is that while I have my BD collection cataloged on the site, my tower is pretty much an unorganized mess. Usually when I buy a BD, I redeem the code, if applicable (if not, a-ripping we go), and put it on the shelf. So as I said, in my case, I go from browsing to watching faster with digital because I immediately hit "play" once I find something that interests me.

Another big advantage for me when it comes to digital is the fact I can watch whatever I want when I want. There are many movies I don't want my youngin to see, and unless I'm watching when she's asleep (so either really late at night or really early in the morning), not going to have much opportunity to watch the BD. 95% of the time, if I'm watching a BD, it's a Disney animated affair or something very family friendly.