PLEASE HELP ME CHOOSE BETWEEN THESE 2 HDTV's:

[colgra01]

48hz flicker? can anyone tell me if this is a legitimate concern? what is it exactly?

[LifeOfAPirate13]

Plasma baby! Even though I dont own a panny I love my samsung plasma! Def the way to go for blacks!

[RIPSeanTaylor21]

Originally Posted by LifeOfAPirate13

Plasma baby! Even though I dont own a panny I love my samsung plasma! Def the way to go for blacks!

+1

[JR8300]

I love the XBR series LCDs...while the XBR6 easily has the best black levels outside of the (LED) series LCDs the 120 Hz processing was in it's infancy and is not as good as what is seen in the newer models. The deep color calibration options are a calibrators dream.

The Panny is awesome...great blacks and picture. The bells and whistles aren't there though. Also, you don't have many options to improve the color accuracy.

Still my vote goes to the Panny, if you were looking at the XBR 7 or 8 it would be a different story. Get the Panny.

[GoYanks]

Originally Posted by JR8300

I love the XBR series LCDs...while the XBR6 easily has the best black levels outside of the LNT81F series (LED) the 120 Hz processing was in it's infancy and is not as good as what is seen in the newer models. The deep color calibration options are a calibrators dream.

The Panny is awesome...great blacks and picture. The bells and whistles aren't there though. Also, you don't have many options to improve the color accuracy.

Still my vote goes to the Panny, if you were looking at the XBR 7 or 8 it would be a different story. Get the Panny.

plus you can always pay the $300 and get a custom calibration which goes a long way... of course this would be after the 100 hrs burn in period.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by colgra01

48hz flicker? can anyone tell me if this is a legitimate concern? what is it exactly?

1080P displays that display the image at 60HZ still looks very good with BLU-RAY. To experience the maximum quality of the BLU-RAY format a TV needs to be able to accept a 1080P/24 signal and be able to refresh the image on the screen at either 48HZ, 72HZ, 96HZ, 120HZ, 240HZ, or higher multiplies of the original frame without adding 3:2 pulldown. In the movie theater 35mm film and 70mm film is encoded at 24fps and flashed on the screen at 48HZ, 72HZ or other multiplies of 24fps. TV's that refresh 1080P/24 signals at 60HZ will produce a 3:2 pulldown judder during camera pans and the image will look more like 60HZ video compared to a more natural film look. All 1080P Pioneer plasma screens properly display 1080P/24 at 72HZ to give the image a natural film look that eliminates judder that is part of the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown process.
When Panasonic came out with the 800U and 850U they added a 48HZ mode for film purist so that one can enjoy 1080P/24 at 48HZ. The problem is some people do not like the 800U and 850U since a "flicker" or "unwatchable flicker" is present at 48HZ. It is unknown if Panasonic will fix this issue with a firmware update.
Contrast ratios, and black levels are more important issues with picture quality compared to true working 48HZ refresh mode. The Panasonic 800U and 850U are good 60HZ displays that will give you the full advantage of 1080P at 60HZ, but if you want to take advantage of 1080P/24 signals the Pioneer Plasma displays and a few Hitachi Plasma displays are the ones to own.

[colgra01]

Guys I looked at the Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro 111 at best buy tonight...WOW. It is over my initial budget but on sale for 3999 and with three years no interest financing available , it almost seems like a no brainer. It also seems to be at least a few years future proof and the best out there.

Thoughts? I do feel guilty spending that, but considering a few years back when crappy 720 p plasmas were over 5 k , this doesnt see as bad.

[colgra01]

Guys, had to bump this, do you think it is worth it for me to spring for the Kuro? I watch a lot of TV, movies, sports, etc (rehearsing my explanation to the wife LOL) Thoughts?

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by colgra01

Guys, had to bump this, do you think it is worth it for me to spring for the Kuro? I watch a lot of TV, movies, sports, etc (rehearsing my explanation to the wife LOL) Thoughts?

Have this set. I paid $4600 in July. Outstanding performer. You will not be disappointed. I am really happy with mine. It is the top of the line from the Top maker of Plasmas. When it was installed by the people from my Audio shop they could not believe how much easier it was for set-up than the generation earlier. They were also really impressed with the Blu-ray performance as am I.

Rich

[Toptube]

Originally Posted by colgra01

Guys I looked at the Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro 111 at best buy tonight...WOW. It is over my initial budget but on sale for 3999 and with three years no interest financing available , it almost seems like a no brainer. It also seems to be at least a few years future proof and the best out there.

Thoughts? I do feel guilty spending that, but considering a few years back when crappy 720 p plasmas were over 5 k , this doesnt see as bad.

I'd get a Panasonic. Half the price for 95% of the quality. You can take the money saved and buy a Blu-ray player and several Blu-rays-----and STILL have money for other stuff.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by colgra01

48hz flicker? can anyone tell me if this is a legitimate concern? what is it exactly?

It's not a legitimate concern. It's the same flicker you see at the theater with a 48Hz projector (ie - any non-digital cinema)

48Hz is at a speed where you can see the frame rate in certain scenes with heightened contrast, like a bright sky behind a building in shadow.

It's "filmic" - it's the way it's supposed to look. It's a shame most of the people who normally know what they're talking about don't understand this.

If you don't like it, turn it to 60Hz. That's the way we've been watching DVD's for years.

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When Panasonic came out with the 800U and 850U they added a 48HZ mode for film purist so that one can enjoy 1080P/24 at 48HZ. The problem is some people do not like the 800U and 850U since a "flicker" or "unwatchable flicker" is present at 48HZ. It is unknown if Panasonic will fix this issue with a firmware update.

They won't, because it's NOT an issue, it's the way it is supposed to look.

Have you actually watched this at all? The reason why some people think it's unwatchable is because they have never seen anything like it outside the cinema.

Secondly it would be an absolute landslide of people that wouldn't have a clue whether they were looking at 1080p60 or 1080p72, one having 3:2 judder the other not, so the ultimate quality has far more to do with a plethora of other options that it does with the ability to correctly display 24Hz.

No idea why someone would get hung up on that as being anywhere near a top consideration when buying an HDTV.

[Musashi]

If there's no gaming to be done, OP would do well with a Kuro. Best pic I've ever seen. The Panasonic Viera 85u series will be good for me as it fared better on my gaming field tests than the Elite 151FD from Pioneer, but the Pioneer looks a lil better.

For your Blu player: I'd actually say to get a standard blu-ray player, again b/c of no gaming. A new one from any major CE should do well; read the tech specs on this site to help choose.

[GoYanks]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It's not a legitimate concern. It's the same flicker you see at the theater with a 48Hz projector (ie - any non-digital cinema)

48Hz is at a speed where you can see the frame rate in certain scenes with heightened contrast, like a bright sky behind a building in shadow.

It's "filmic" - it's the way it's supposed to look. It's a shame most of the people who normally know what they're talking about don't understand this.

If you don't like it, turn it to 60Hz. That's the way we've been watching DVD's for years.



They won't, because it's NOT an issue, it's the way it is supposed to look.

Have you actually watched this at all? The reason why some people think it's unwatchable is because they have never seen anything like it outside the cinema.

Secondly it would be an absolute landslide of people that wouldn't have a clue whether they were looking at 1080p60 or 1080p72, one having 3:2 judder the other not, so the ultimate quality has far more to do with a plethora of other options that it does with the ability to correctly display 24Hz.

No idea why someone would get hung up on that as being anywhere near a top consideration when buying an HDTV.

wow doby. I read a review that talked about the flicker and had a no idea that it was intentionally and actually 'filmic'. So much misinformation is spewed on the internet and sometimes from what would seem to be reputable places. I love my 750u... well it's technically my dad's, but I picked it out. When I buy my own set, it will definitely be from panny and in the 100's or 1000's. They make great plasma televisions.

[Pelican170]

My main worry about plasma's is image retention and i just read teh 800U's manual and it clearly gives a warning about this. has anyone had a problem with image retention? i do alot of gaming and dont wanna buy this is its going to be a problem...

[dobyblue]

Panasonic include that warning in all their plasma's, as does just about every plasma manufacturer other than Samsung I believe.

Yes image retention is a reality. If you experience problems with image retention and burn in on your CRT then you may well have the type of viewing patterns that will give you image retention and burn in on your plasma.

However, these sort of viewing environments generally involve 24-hour static images, like departure/arrival monitors at airport lounges.

It is not something I would concern myself with personally when choosing plasma vs. "other display".

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Panasonic include that warning in all their plasma's, as does just about every plasma manufacturer other than Samsung I believe.

Yes image retention is a reality. If you experience problems with image retention and burn in on your CRT then you may well have the type of viewing patterns that will give you image retention and burn in on your plasma.

However, these sort of viewing environments generally involve 24-hour static images, like departure/arrival monitors at airport lounges.

It is not something I would concern myself with personally when choosing plasma vs. "other display".

oh i see. so even if i did a 6 hr gaming session (which i would rarely rarely do) i would most likely be fine. good to know, thannsk..