What wires should I get

[tilapiah6]

I have purchased everything I need for the surround sound except the wires and banana plugs. I have both picked out at monoprice.com. I went with Open screw banana plugs and 12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire Cable - 50ft. I'm wondering if I should get a different type of speaker wire, or if I should stick with what I've picked out. My setup that I've purchased is 2 Polk Monitor 70s, 2 Polk Monitor 30s, a Polk CS2, the ED A2-300, and the Yamaha RX-V663.

[Beta Man]

shouldn't make a difference, just stick with what you got (or even a higher gauge (smaller wire) and you'll be fine.

[tilapiah6]

Yeah I'm wondering how much of a difference it would ultimately make. It's only a few bucks difference in price.....

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

Yeah I'm wondering how much of a difference it would ultimately make. It's only a few bucks difference.....

I'd probably go with "No discernable difference at all" the only difference in the spades/plugs is convenience, and the only difference you'll notice with 12G vs say 14 or 16G is in the fact that the 12G is going to be more work for you to hide the wires etc (since they're bigger) but if you're using plugs/spades there won't be any issues with connecting them.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I'd probably go with "No discernable difference at all" the only difference in the spades/plugs is convenience, and the only difference you'll notice with 12G vs say 14 or 16G is in the fact that the 12G is going to be more work for you to hide the wires etc (since they're bigger) but if you're using plugs/spades there won't be any issues with connecting them.

Cool, in that case I'll save my money. Thanks for the info.

[hagar852]

The insulation on the 16gauge wire fits inside the banana plug, where the 12gauge wire doesn't fit at all.. I have the 12gauge and my friend has the 16 gauge and that was much better with the banana plugs.. either way not a big deal.. just a heads up..

[Halcro 1]

Speaker cable makes a huge difference

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Halcro 1

Speaker cable makes a huge difference

I guess I'll take your word for it, because I know that I personally wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 12G and 16G copper wire cables connect to the Polk monitor series, or any other speaker, regardless of the amplifications....

I guess you don't think $5 Monoprice HDMI cables are as good as $200 HDMI cables in terms of Audio/Video ability?

[tilapiah6]

I went with 16 guage and the open screw banana clips.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I guess I'll take your word for it, because I know that I personally wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 12G and 16G copper wire cables connect to the Polk monitor series, or any other speaker, regardless of the amplifications....

I guess you don't think $5 Monoprice HDMI cables are as good as $200 HDMI cables in terms of Audio/Video ability?

That's not totally fair. I mean HDMI is digital. It's going to give you the exact same signal regardless of cost. Speaker wires are different, I just wasn't sure to what degree. As you said though, shouldn't be any difference with my Polks.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I guess I'll take your word for it, because I know that I personally wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 12G and 16G copper wire cables connect to the Polk monitor series, or any other speaker, regardless of the amplifications....

I guess you don't think $5 Monoprice HDMI cables are as good as $200 HDMI cables in terms of Audio/Video ability?

Cables in general can make a decided difference in sound that can be heard when using associated components. That is speaker, ICs, Coax, and Optical. I can only presume that HDMI cables will make a difference and I paid heavily for mine. One thing that many people will argue is that cables do not need any break in and that is very incorrect. The same can be said for electronic components and speakers as well.

Rich

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Cables in general can make a decided difference in sound that can be heard when using associated components. That is speaker, ICs, Coax, and Optical. I can only presume that HDMI cables will make a difference and I paid heavily for mine. One thing that many people will argue is that cables do not need any break in and that is very incorrect. The same can be said for electronic components and speakers as well.

Rich

The monoprice HDMI cables perform exactly the same as a 200 dollar monster HDMI cable. There is absolutely no difference in performance.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by hagar852

The insulation on the 16gauge wire fits inside the banana plug, where the 12gauge wire doesn't fit at all.. I have the 12gauge and my friend has the 16 gauge and that was much better with the banana plugs.. either way not a big deal.. just a heads up..

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Takes up to 12ga, so your statement is a little confusing. I use the closed screw type myself but I'm sure it'd fit fine.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by aramis109

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Takes up to 12ga, so your statement is a little confusing. I use the closed screw type myself but I'm sure it'd fit fine.

I spoke with a person who works for monoprice and he said you would have to strip the insulation for the 12 guage to work with the banana clips.

[Big Daddy]

I copied this from my thread on A Guide to Optical, Coaxial, and Speaker Cables.

Resistance is by far the most important specification of a speaker wire. Low-resistance speaker wire allows more of the amplifier's power to energize the loudspeaker's voice coil. Resistance is affected by three factors: conductivity, length, and thickness.

CONDUCTIVITY
Electrical conductance is a measure of how easily electricity flows along an element. Its units are Siemens, which is the inverse of Ohms. Electrical conductance is related to the materials' conductivity according to the following formula:

G = σ . (A/L)

where:

G = the electrical conductance (Siemens)
σ = the materials conductivity (Siemens/Meter), it is the inverse of the material's resistivity
A = the object's cross-sectional area (Meter ^2)
L = the length of the object (Meter)

Resistivity in Ohm per Meter
Silver: 1.6 x 10^-8
Copper: 1.7 x 10^-8
Gold: 2.4 x 10^-8
Aluminum or Aluminium: 2.7 x 10^-8

Electrical Conductivity (s, Siemens/Meter) at 20 degrees (C)
Silver: 6.2 × 10^7, Highest electrical conductivity of any known metal
Copper: 6.0 × 10^7
Gold: 4.5 × 10^7, Gold is commonly used in electrical contacts
Aluminum: 3.8 × 10^7

LENGTH
If you double the length of a wire, you will double its resistance. This means that you will have to get a wire with better resistance or you will have to increase the power in order to get the same level of sound as the shorter wire.

THICKNESS (CROSS-SECTIONAL-AREA)
The resistance of a wire decreases as you increase its thickness (AWG, gauge number). The gauge number drops as the wire gets larger. As a general rule, you should use thicker (lower gauge number) wires for longer distances. High-power car audio systems using 2-ohm speaker circuits require relatively thick cables. The following table can be used as a guide. Also read Impedance & Sensitivity of a Loudspeaker.

Golden Rule: When you increase the gauge number of a wire by a factor of 3, its resistance will be doubled. For example, the resistance of an 18 gauge speaker wire is 4 times higher per foot in comparison to a 12 gauge wire (18 is 6 points away from 12).

Speaker Wire Material
Copper is the most commonly used material in speaker wires. Silver is a slightly better conductor and has a slightly lower resistance compared to the same gauge of copper wire. However, it costs a lot more and any advantage gained by using a better conductor can easily be compensated for with slightly thicker copper wire.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

The monoprice HDMI cables perform exactly the same as a 200 dollar monster HDMI cable. There is absolutely no difference in performance.

They may perform the same, but they may not sound the same. I have yet to try to compare the sound, but there are certainly differences in design, materials and connectors used by different makers. I have the Wireworld Silver Starlight 5 squared which are flat; Wireworld's HDMI cables are all flat and designed differently than any other manufacturer that I am aware of:

http://www.wireworldcable.com/pdfs/S...lightSheet.pdf

I would suspect that to hear and see the advantages of the higher end HDMI cables would require the higher end components to complement the cables.

Rich

[hagar852]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

I spoke with a person who works for monoprice and he said you would have to strip the insulation for the 12 guage to work with the banana clips.

That is what I was saying.. I have the solder-style plugs where the wire goes in at the end..

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I copied this from my thread on A Guide to Optical, Coaxial, and Speaker Cables.

Resistance is by far the most important specification of a speaker wire. Low-resistance speaker wire allows more of the amplifier's power to energize the loudspeaker's voice coil. Resistance is affected by three factors: conductivity, length, and thickness.

CONDUCTIVITY
Electrical conductance is a measure of how easily electricity flows along an element. Its units are Siemens, which is the inverse of Ohms. Electrical conductance is related to the materials' conductivity according to the following formula:

G = σ . (A/L)

where:

G = the electrical conductance (Siemens)
σ = the materials conductivity (Siemens/Meter), it is the inverse of the material's resistivity
A = the object's cross-sectional area (Meter ^2)
L = the length of the object (Meter)

Resistivity in Ohm per Meter
Silver: 1.6 x 10^-8
Copper: 1.7 x 10^-8
Gold: 2.4 x 10^-8
Aluminum or Aluminium: 2.7 x 10^-8

Electrical Conductivity (s, Siemens/Meter) at 20 degrees (C)
Silver: 6.2 × 10^7, Highest electrical conductivity of any known metal
Copper: 6.0 × 10^7
Gold: 4.5 × 10^7, Gold is commonly used in electrical contacts
Aluminum: 3.8 × 10^7

LENGTH
If you double the length of a wire, you will double its resistance. This means that you will have to get a wire with better resistance or you will have to increase the power in order to get the same level of sound as the shorter wire.

THICKNESS (CROSS-SECTIONAL-AREA)
The resistance of a wire decreases as you increase its thickness (AWG, gauge number). The gauge number drops as the wire gets larger. As a general rule, you should use thicker (lower gauge number) wires for longer distances. High-power car audio systems using 2-ohm speaker circuits require relatively thick cables. The following table can be used as a guide. Also read Impedance & Sensitivity of a Loudspeaker.

Golden Rule: When you increase the gauge number of a wire by a factor of 3, its resistance will be doubled. For example, the resistance of an 18 gauge speaker wire is 4 times higher per foot in comparison to a 12 gauge wire (18 is 6 points away from 12).

Speaker Wire Material
Copper is the most commonly used material in speaker wires. Silver is a slightly better conductor and has a slightly lower resistance compared to the same gauge of copper wire. However, it costs a lot more and any advantage gained by using a better conductor can easily be compensated for with slightly thicker copper wire.

There are differences in the sound and the performance of copper versus silver as well as the purity of each; additionally performance has been improved with long crystalline forms of the 2 metals, etc. But these are and become quite costly.

Rich

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

There are differences in the sound and the performance of copper versus silver as well as the purity of each; additionally performance has been improved with long crystalline forms of the 2 metals, etc. But these are and become quite costly.
Rich

Copper can oxidize, but contrary to common belief, even oxides of copper are conductive. I refer you to the following articles:

Stereo Review Dares to Tell the Truth (1983)
A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80.

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires."
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#reviewdares

"In the early 1980's, special speaker wires were beginning to appear on the market. Some of the claims were totally unbelievable and had prices to match. Realizing that wire resistance was the critical factor in speaker wire, Gordon Gow, President of McIntosh Laboratory, used a speaker cable demonstration to show there was no listening difference between these wires and plain line cord."
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#gordongow

John Dunlavy, who manufactures audiophile loudspeakers and wire to go with it, does think questioning is valid. A musician and engineer, Mr. Dunlavy said as an academic exercise he used principles of physics relating to transmission line and network theory to produce a high-end cable. "People ask if they will hear a difference, and I tell them no," he said.

Mr. Dunlavy has often gathered audio critics in his Colorado Springs lab for a demonstration.

"What we do is kind of dirty and stinky," he said. "We say we are starting with a 12 AWG zip cord, and we position a technician behind each speaker to change the cables out." The technicians hold up fancy-looking cables before they disappear behind the speakers. The critics debate the sound characteristics of each wire. "They describe huge changes and they say, 'Oh my God, John, tell me you can hear that difference,'" Mr. Dunlavy said. The trick is the technicians never actually change the cables, he said, adding, "It's the placebo effect."
http://www.sound.westhost.com/cables-p2.htm

A famous feud erupted between audio critic Tom Nousaine and Transparent Audio president Jack Summer. Eventually Summer declined to have his cables tested in the classic double blind ABX testing against other cheap cables.
http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html

Expensive%20Wires.jpg

Two sets of 25ft wires for left and right speakers would cost you over $58,000+Tax & Shipping or you can buy a well-equipped Corvette.

You can always buy a used high-end cable at substantial savings of several thousand dollars.
http://www.usedcable.com/cgi-bin/The...ny.storefront/

Additional References:
http://www.sherwoodusa.com/cc_qanda.html
http://pkant.htmlplanet.com/wiresfaq.htm
http://www.aperionaudio.com/AperionU...er-wiring.aspx
http://www.hometheaterfocus.com/acce...io-cables.aspx

[tilapiah6]

I guess the thing to remember is that speaker wire is easy enough to replace. If I'm not happy with my 16 guage (the back left speaker is going to require maybe 25 feed of it to reach going along the wall) I can always upgrade. Thanks to all of you for the input!