Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by SarahS

.... Nobody here gives a bleep about what happens in the UK or anywhere else. UK, Canada or anywhere else has never and will never set the standard for the US.

There are members on here from UK and Canada, so they may care, but otherwise you are correct the UV market in the US is different from elsewhere.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Dude give up your inccent crying over physical vs digital. It's not going anywhere. 38 Million and growing is one hell of a lot of accounts and that's in the US alone. Nobody here gives a bleep about what happens in the UK or anywhere else. UK, Canada or anywhere else has never and will never set the standard for the US.

What do you mean, set the standard? What standard? 38 million (looks like it's a lot less) is not that big a number. By far, more people are using subscription services. That's where the future lies (for Digital). You are living in a fantasy world if you think people are going to be buying movies through Vudu on a regular basis once codes go away. It's cheap as chips, and cheap always prove successful.

If we are talking about Digital, setting the standards will be Apple when they blow away Vudu and everyone else. It's coming and you know it's coming. Things are happening behind the scenes I believe.

Oh, and Bluray will be fine.

Finally, that's a real selfish attitude you have there. Our country is fine, so screw everyone else. Wouldn't like to be by your side in a war lol.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Greyman

This article says 28 million UV accounts which is probably world wide, so 38 million Vudu accounts is not likely.

Also, many millions of those accounts maybe inactive. Means nothing those numbers.

[Steedeel]

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/what-s-...rong-1-4956436

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier.

These articles are becoming more frequent.

https://www.recode.net/2017/5/5/1555...v-shows-social

Maybe the sky is falling for movies and premium tv. Knew they would try this shit once Digital reared its ugly head.

Movies will end up catering to teens and twenty sonethings EVEN more. I can see it now.

You control the ending! You guide your favourite character from beginning yo end! It's movies but you are in charge! Coming soon, interactive movies. Ready to follow you and fit into YOUR LIFESTYLE. Watch on mobile, watch, tablet, laptop and even at home!

Lol, if anyone doubts this is coming, be aware that Twitch, HBO, Facebook etc are all apparently putting money into this and hiring content creators. There is to be a new interactive version of The twilight Zone, a interactive version of War Games and many more shows.

Like I said, for films the way we all love them, the sky might just be falling. For REAL!

Cheers digital,great job.

[master gandhi]

Not everyone who uses VUDU also uses UV. Many people may not even see the purpose of UV. If all you use is VUDU, UV is pretty irrelevant, unless you want to share your movies with friends/family and/or have UV-enabled movies on FandangoNow and/or Flixster.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What goes up, must come down. . Vudu haven't got other countries to fall back on. If it starts diving n U.S, its gone. Like I said, the test will be when codes are gone.

Originally Posted by SarahS

Dude give up your inccent crying over physical vs digital. It's not going anywhere. 38 Million and growing is one hell of a lot of accounts and that's in the US alone. Nobody here gives a bleep about what happens in the UK or anywhere else. UK, Canada or anywhere else has never and will never set the standard for the US.

Lighten up on Old Steedeel, he is one of the few that thinks Discs are not Digital Movies and puts them on the same level as Film. When in fact it's all Digital now, the Codec for Digital HD and Disc are the same. Disc is just a Storage Device, and like I have been saying we are headed towards Media Servers whether on Streaming Provider, Subscription Service, ISP, or Local. Digital HD is here to stay, Discs will fade to a Distant Memory!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Lighten up on Old Steedeel, he is one of the few that thinks Discs are not Digital Movies and puts them on the same level as Film. When in fact it's all Digital now, the Codec for Digital HD and Disc is the same. Disc is just a Storage Device, and like I have been saying we are headed towards Media Servers whether on Streaming Provider, Subscription Service, ISP, or Local. Digital HD is here to stay, Discs will fade to a Distant Memory!

Maybe in your house, not mine.

[echopulse]

If you have a Vudu account, and you buy movies from any studio that supports UV, you must have a UV account. A UV movie will not play unless it's connected to a UV account. Vudu automatically creates one for you when you join if you don't have one. So it's not likely that there are more Vudu accounts than the number of UV accounts.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You are living in a fantasy world if you think people are going to be buying movies through Vudu on a regular basis once codes go away.

You're saying that people buy movies because they get free movies and if they stop getting free movies they'll stop buying movies. You know that doesn't make a lick of sense, right? When has that ever been true?

Codes will likely coexist with physical until physical is dead and buried. Codes were originally promotional to jumpstart electronic sales. Electronic sales are now established. Soon the rationale will flip as physical sales continue to plummet. Fewer customers will buy movies without codes so they'll keep packing them in to provide support to the shrinking disc market.

Look at the numerous disc rereleases with codes. VUDU puts InstaWatch on old catalog discs that don't even have pack-in codes. They're trying to support those disc sales with codes, not support electronic sales with discs. There are more codes now than ever, not fewer.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Like I said, for films the way we all love them, the sky might just be falling. For REAL!

I will be so disappointed if in five years we're all still living in reality instead of being restricted to watching interactive movies on phones and watches.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You are living in a fantasy world if you think people are going to be buying movies through Vudu on a regular basis once codes go away. It's cheap as chips, and cheap always prove successful.

iTunes, Vudu, and Amazon have frequent digital sales. Digital movies go on sale on those services for $4.99-$7.99 frequently. I've been buying digital movies from iTunes frequently these past couple of months at those prices. If codes stop getting supplied with blu-rays, there mostly like will still be movies that go on sale from those services. I think many people that are into digital won't mind spending $4.99 on a digital movie when the regular price is $14.99. Now buying digital movies at regular price, I don't think many people would do that on a regular basis, and they would just buy the blu-ray if they want to own the movie or just rent it from Red Box or rent it digitally from one of the services or check if it's on Netflix or Amazon Prime Video.

[BlakkMajik3000]

I think Steedeel's point, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is nobody really knows what will happen with digital once that's the "standard" way to purchase movies.

Right now, digital retailers have a lot of incentive to have sales because they are still competing with a pretty robust physical market. Will they still have movies for $4.99, $7.99, $9.99, etc. once the physical option is removed? You need to research the term "captive audience", because I think that applies to this scenario.

Further, how many people, including yourself, value digital movies at a $14.99 or $17.99 price point? Even as a big supporter of digital, it's really hard for me to justify paying more than 8 or 9 bucks for a movie that isn't on disc.

Let's not be naive here. Digital has gotten a big shot in the arm thanks to both digital codes and D2D, and I say this as someone that has benefited from both aspects. It is within reason to speculate that once the barriers to digital movie ownership return (i.e. no D2D and no codes), the digital movie scene (EST specifically) will fall like a rock.

I think codes will hang around for a while at least, because if codes are phased out, people will just go back to buying BDs at best, and piracy at worst. Digital gives studios the kind of control they desire, so they won't rock that boat if they can help it. If anything, I see some kind of UV/DMA combined locker coming soon. Right now, consumers still have to choose a provider they want to stick with. UV doesn't have the providers that most people use, but most of the studios, while DMA has the providers most people use, but not the other studios. It should get interesting once there is a locker system that is both supported by all the major EST providers and has the movies by all the major studios.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

Right now, digital retailers have a lot of incentive to have sales because they are still competing with a pretty robust physical market. Will they still have movies for $4.99, $7.99, $9.99, etc. once the physical option is removed? You need to research the term "captive audience", because I think that applies to this scenario.

Even if the physical market disappears, there still would be competition between the digital services.

[randian]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Even if the physical market disappears, there still would be competition between the digital services.

The appearance of competition is an illusion. The digital services don't control their prices, the studios do. That's why you never see iTunes and Vudu respond to each other's sales.

That's why I'm not convinced the studios actually object to a decline in physical sales, and are perhaps even the architect of it. Physical sales are a true competitive environment, with retailers setting their own prices and frequent price matching. Nobody as aggressively predatory as most movie studios are (Sony being one of the worst in my opinion, in both their movie and music divisions) would tolerate that.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

I think Steedeel's point, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is nobody really knows what will happen with digital once that's the "standard" way to purchase movies.

If the studios think prices are inelastic they'll be in for a rude surprise. But I don't think they're stupid. With digital they've reduced the middleman's cut and they've unburdened themselves of manufacturing costs. That gives them a lot of flexibility when it comes to reducing prices, not raising them. We've been seeing that.

And as they say, the cure for high prices is high prices. Nobody has to entertain themselves with a purchased movie. Plenty of alternatives. They're not a captive audience.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

You're saying that people buy movies because they get free movies and if they stop getting free movies they'll stop buying movies. You know that doesn't make a lick of sense, right? When has that ever been true?

Codes will likely coexist with physical until physical is dead and buried. Codes were originally promotional to jumpstart electronic sales. Electronic sales are now established. Soon the rationale will flip as physical sales continue to plummet. Fewer customers will buy movies without codes so they'll keep packing them in to provide support to the shrinking disc market.

Look at the numerous disc rereleases with codes. VUDU puts InstaWatch on old catalog discs that don't even have pack-in codes. They're trying to support those disc sales with codes, not support electronic sales with discs. There are more codes now than ever, not fewer.


I will be so disappointed if in five years we're all still living in reality instead of being restricted to watching interactive movies on phones and watches.

No, I am saying the market is there because people are getting films on the cheap. Do you think films can remain that cheap yet still have a thriving market? Of course they can't. Especially now that Vudu is just about a one country company. There is no value to codes outside America.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

I think Steedeel's point, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is nobody really knows what will happen with digital once that's the "standard" way to purchase movies.

Right now, digital retailers have a lot of incentive to have sales because they are still competing with a pretty robust physical market. Will they still have movies for $4.99, $7.99, $9.99, etc. once the physical option is removed? You need to research the term "captive audience", because I think that applies to this scenario.

Further, how many people, including yourself, value digital movies at a $14.99 or $17.99 price point? Even as a big supporter of digital, it's really hard for me to justify paying more than 8 or 9 bucks for a movie that isn't on disc.

Let's not be naive here. Digital has gotten a big shot in the arm thanks to both digital codes and D2D, and I say this as someone that has benefited from both aspects. It is within reason to speculate that once the barriers to digital movie ownership return (i.e. no D2D and no codes), the digital movie scene (EST specifically) will fall like a rock.

I think codes will hang around for a while at least, because if codes are phased out, people will just go back to buying BDs at best, and piracy at worst. Digital gives studios the kind of control they desire, so they won't rock that boat if they can help it. If anything, I see some kind of UV/DMA combined locker coming soon. Right now, consumers still have to choose a provider they want to stick with. UV doesn't have the providers that most people use, but most of the studios, while DMA has the providers most people use, but not the other studios. It should get interesting once there is a locker system that is both supported by all the major EST providers and has the movies by all the major studios.

That is pretty much exactly what I mean. Right now, I am more than happy to pay £15 for a well produced package (Arrow, Criterion, Artificial Eye, BFI etc..) can Digital 'have it now ' folk say that? I don't think they can.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

If the studios think prices are inelastic they'll be in for a rude surprise. But I don't think they're stupid. With digital they've reduced the middleman's cut and they've unburdened themselves of manufacturing costs. That gives them a lot of flexibility when it comes to reducing prices, not raising them. We've been seeing that.

And as they say, the cure for high prices is high prices. Nobody has to entertain themselves with a purchased movie. Plenty of alternatives. They're not a captive audience.

Yeah right, that worked out well for digital games didn't it? They are asking £10 more for already expensive console games. The same will happen here.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

Further, how many people, including yourself, value digital movies at a $14.99 or $17.99 price point? Even as a big supporter of digital, it's really hard for me to justify paying more than 8 or 9 bucks for a movie that isn't on disc.

Who pays 14.99 for a digital film? Every single digital release out there can be had for 2.00 D2D, or paying 2-4 dollars on these boards for new codes of new releases and even on mailing lists of those that sell codes only. You might pay 7-10 dollars for a Disney Code but far, far cheaper than physical media. The most I have ever paid for a digital code (of my over 800 films) was the code I just bought last night for 19.99 (Fathers Day wal mart gift card was used on that puppy). It included 4 films The Man with no Name Trilogy and Hang Em High bundle. Anyway point being that digital is far cheaper than physical media. I had close to 3,000 BD's at one time and I can assure you that I paid a hella lot more for those physical discs that took up an entire floor to ceiling shelving unit in a room.

[twobelowpar]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Who pays 14.99 for a digital film? Every single digital release out there can be had for 2.00 D2D, or paying 2-4 dollars on these boards for new codes of new releases and even on mailing lists of those that sell codes only. You might pay 7-10 dollars for a Disney Code but far, far cheaper than physical media. The most I have ever paid for a digital code (of my over 800 films) was the code I just bought last night for 19.99 (Fathers Day wal mart gift card was used on that puppy). It included 4 films The Man with no Name Trilogy and Hang Em High bundle. Anyway point being that digital is far cheaper than physical media. I had close to 3,000 BD's at one time and I can assure you that I paid a hella lot more for those physical discs that took up an entire floor to ceiling shelving unit in a room.

Talk about missing the point. Where do you think your D2D and cheap codes are going to go as physical purchases dwindle or the studios simply decide to pull the plug on those features? For every digital code that is bought, a physical copy was sold somewhere. So as those dwindle, and digital grows in popularity, the codes are going to go up in price. It's already happening. I sell new release UV codes every week for $5-6 and sell out in only a couple days. As it stands now, the popularity of digital owes everything to physical still existing and providing these cheap secondary options.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

If the studios think prices are inelastic they'll be in for a rude surprise. But I don't think they're stupid. With digital they've reduced the middleman's cut and they've unburdened themselves of manufacturing costs. That gives them a lot of flexibility when it comes to reducing prices, not raising them. We've been seeing that.

And as they say, the cure for high prices is high prices. Nobody has to entertain themselves with a purchased movie. Plenty of alternatives. They're not a captive audience.

Digital has not reduced the middle mans cut if anything it in the long run will increase the middle mans cut as we now only have 3 or 4 major middle men in digital who each have a monopoly thanks to the closed garden system digital lends itself to. Its just way to much of a hassle for the average person to maintain amazon, vudu, iTunes, microsoft, google and youtube accounts. Most people will pick one or 2 at most if they go digital at all.

As far as manufacturing costs they won't have to ship it or create the disc but they will have to stream it to people ad infinitum or burn a lot of digital buyers which is why people are wary of digital (its in a major corporations nature to burn people for profit). The majority of the manufacturing cost though is still their for digital though they will still have to remaster and protect original masters of movies. They also so far have not found a way to resell remasters to previous digital buyers like they can for disc based media which means the demand for remasters when you go to a digital system is a lot smaller (when looking at possible paying customers).