PlayStation 5 Launches Nov 12 $399/$499 Nov 19 £359/£449

[BigSexyKevinNash]

PS4 today isn't even worth it lol.

Greatness awaits I guess.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by BigSexyKevinNash

PS4 today isn't even worth it lol.

Greatness awaits I guess.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Like, WTF!? I just got my PS4 like last year. =/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

The article is worthless, just some guy's clickbait headline; it's not news. It just dawned on him that Scorpio is coming, which obviously leads to PS5 launched in 2018. I'd sooner lock the tread than merge it with anything of substance.

To be fair though, the guy who predicted that was apparently spot on with the slim and Pro.

[home888]

PlayStation 5?

I'd buy it!!!!

Just hope the lineup is good. I'd never buy a Nintendo system again or even an Xbox after the security feature scam with the always on camera for weirdos, the no physical media issue they tried to pull, etc.

Still waiting on Kingdom Hearts 3 from Disney/Square. Only because it looks so neat and very playable. Word on it is good but it might take a long time for it to come out. It it's even out for PlayStation 4; I don't know yet.

PlayStation 4 Pro is fun; the Sony OLED is a great 2017 tv and the Sony 4K player is the best player in the world right now!

Sony does make the best setups in the world for me!!!! :cool

[doctor_who]

No UHD disc player, no buy.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The huge patches and the games not exceeding 50GB are related. A few games have exceeded 50GB but they made up the difference with patches. Uncharted 4 didn't include any multi-player on the disc because they already filled up the entire disc. Whether or not most games need 50GB is irrelevant: some games will and Sony won't want to limit games to 50GB, especially since Microsoft will obviously support 100GB discs on their next console as they've already upgraded their current system with a capable drive.

Most people are completely unaware of how little the price difference is between a UHD capable drive and regular Blu-ray drive. Therefore Sony was easily able to use the excuse that they were saving money by not including it in the PS4 Pro, even though the real reason was that they wanted to push their own digital content. But if there is already a UHD capable drive in the system then they won't have that excuse.

Nobody sees Nintendo systems as media players so they were easily able to leave out DVD and Blu-ray support. But Playstations are seen as media players so arbitrarily locking out Ultra HD Blu-ray playback on a capable drive would be bad precedent.

Best guess because I still have not found any information on differences between HD Blu-ray drives after 2011 and UHD drives is this: The encryption between drive and TEE over the USB or Sata bus is probably HDCP 2.2 as is every other modern streaming DRM. The older drives can not support HDCP 2.2 and the Trusted Platform Module Standard required for the server update Keys. Best guess on the cost difference is well under $10.

Consoles may not require this and it's possible that a game disk does not require HDCP 2.2 DRM so all PS4s can support retroactively 66 & 100GB sizes.

ALL PS4s use the GPU for codecs and those GPUs do not support DRM so Playready 3's SL3000 required for UHD blu-ray is not supported.
Infinity Fabric supports encrypted memory and protected Virtual machines and would support SL3000 for UHD BLu-ray if Ryzen and Navi are used in a PS5.

[Himmel]

Backwards Compatible PS5 Likely Coming 2019 Says Top Analyst


http://screenrant.com/playstation-5-...ds-compatible/

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Himmel

Backwards Compatible PS5 Likely Coming 2019 Says Top Analyst


http://screenrant.com/playstation-5-...ds-compatible/

Multiple support for Holiday 2018 just like the PS4 was Holiday 2013. Updated efficientgaming.eu a few weeks ago still has a 2019 Tier (Jan 2019) which is likely a new PS4 as the XB1 X is Holiday 2017.

[Steedeel]

It don't be 2018. 2019 at the very earliest.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It don't be 2018. 2019 at the very earliest.

It gets confusing; Holiday 2019 for 2020? or Holiday 2018 for 2019?

The efficientgaming.eu website has a Jan 2019 power tier with which Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony have agreed to comply or rather Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony have volunteered to comply with the Power Tier they publish to Efficientgaming.eu.

It's not likely a XB1 as the XB1 X is releasing Holiday 2017 and Holiday 2018 is too early for them to have a successor to the XB1 X. Nintendo has gone with much lower power hardware so the next Nintendo is not likely 70 watts for Navigation and Media. That only leaves the PS4 or 5.

Since the latest efficientgaming.EU update was a few weeks ago there shouldn't be any hardware issues with a release 15 months from now...it should be ready to risk tapeout in 3-4 months with full production Q2 2018.

This Playstation console should have the features mentioned in 2012. http://mandetech.com/2012/01/10/sony...uta-interview/

There was much confusion in 2012 due to the Sony CTO Tsuruta interview on the PS4. It was expected there would be "Stacked Memory" (HBM) in the PS4 due to his and other Industry sources. Could this all have been about the 2018 PS4 as he said some of what they wanted in the PS4 was 5+ years away = 2013 + 5 = 2018 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505495

Depends on Cost as the larger Vega GPUs were supposed to use HBM 2 but they used GDDR5 for the XB1 X. HBM3 is supposed to be cheaper and Navi is supposed to use next generation memory. Infinity Fabric allows flexibility in the memory used.



https://www.slideshare.net/Slide_N/p...tainment-world

HDMI 2.1 spec calls for 4K@120FPS with 3D 240FPS which is the rumored PS5 spec with 300 FPS mentioned by the Sony CTO in 2012 and a Sony VP of technology in 2011 mentioning Glass less 3D needing 5 1080P streams (5X 60FPS = 300FPS) and Stacked memory needed for this bandwidth (cited above).

VR = 4K 3D with UHD Blu-ray drive specs = 6X = 4X + Depthmap (2X). HEVC 10 has extensions for 3D
All 3D streaming will move to the UHD standard using depthmap as it's 50% more efficient than HD's framepacked 3D.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

The article is worthless, just some guy's clickbait headline; it's not news. It just dawned on him that Scorpio is coming, which obviously leads to PS5 launched in 2018. I'd sooner lock the tread than merge it with anything of substance.

Originally Posted by http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/Games_Consoles_Self-Regulatory_Initiative.pdf

Tier 1 Effective from 1st January 2014 >> PS4 1.8 TF 28nm

Tier 2 Effective from 1st January 2016 >> PS4 second version 28nm Global Foundries process

Tier 3 Effective from 1st January 2017 >> PS4 slim and Pro 14nm Polaris

Tier 4 Effective from 1st January 2019 >> PS4? or PS5 7nm Navi

The above are Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo statements on power used by Game Console releases by Node/GPU changes that impact performance and power, they Match up 100% with Sony PS4 model Releases.

The Following is a slide from AMD on Sweet spots by resolution. They match up with the PS4 resolutions; 2013 PS4 and 2016 PS4 Pro with PS5 not yet released. Notice FPS @ 4K for VR is 240 FPS



People may not have noticed but the PS4/XB1 are getting AMD GPUs (PS4 Liverpool with 2014 GPU features, PS4 Pro Polaris, XB1 X Vega) abet with mods before they are released by AMD as dGPUs for PCs. They need consoles to have Game developers optimizing for AMD GPUs and then porting to the PC.

Tier 1 Effective from 1st January 2014 >> 2013 PS4 1.8 TF 28nm Liverpool with 2014 GCN features

Tier 2 Effective from 1st January 2016 >> PS4 second version 28nm Global Foundries process

Tier 3 Effective from 1st January 2017 >> PS4 Pro 14nm Polaris

Tier 4 Effective from 1st January 2019 >> PS4 7nm Navi >> PS5 if ZEN CPU used

Macquarie Capital Securities analyst Damian Thong recently predicted a 2018 release date for the PS4 follow-up.

However, in an interview with German site Golem.de (via VG247), Sony's Shawn Layden suggested the wait could be much longer.

Layden said that it would "probably be some time" before the PS5 is released, which suggests that talk of a 2018 launch is premature.

THE Efficientgaming.eu power tier confirms a new Console Holiday 2018 but is it a PS4 Pro+ with Navi or 2018 PS5 with Zen is unclear.

I am leaning toward PS5 as Navi supports Infinity fabric and that allows DRM secure processes which support Playready 3 SL3000 so even if the GPU is used for Codecs, the Navi GPU can support DRM for UHD Blu-ray. It's also probable that it will have a HDMI 2.1 port to allow 4K glassless 3D and higher res VR goggles which are the reason for the Sony 2012 CTO stating 300FPS would be supported by the PS4. Recent posts are speculating 240FPS support by the new PS4/5.

http://mandetech.com/2012/01/10/sony...uta-interview/ Needs HBM3
https://www.slideshare.net/Slide_N/p...tainment-world Needs HBM3
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58352/...yst/index.html

[Suntory_Times]

^ What tends to happen often at the start of a console generation is games actually get made for pc first then ported to consoles, this even goes for console exclusives (such as Ryse Son of Rome, which was pc developed then ported to console) along with multiplatform games (like the crew).

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Like, WTF!? I just got my PS4 like last year. =/

Well it's not like the ps4 will just go away. I personally doubt the ps5 will launch in 2018 (as in a whole new console, if it is just an iteration they call the ps5 I could see that happening). It would be a hard sell to many of the biggest playstation fans who just one years ago upgraded to the ps4pro, I suspect they'd want to leave at least 3 years between them. However 5 years until last gen was more or less the norm. What we don't want is more 8 year long generations, consoles simply will become far to weak relative to even the most modest of current hardware over such a long time (8 years is multiple lifetimes in computer hardware).

Technology moves fast and I would prefer them use an iterative model (preferably more like a pc in terms of older games not needing patches to run at higher resolutions etc). That said I wouldn't be at all shocked if the ps5 was more or less an iterative device with maybe some exclusives only on ps5 or similar. Meaning new ps5 (or whatever the call it) games wouldn't be shackled by past ps4's, but where essentially otherwise ps4's with more power.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I'm sure there will be new versions of Halo, Gears, and Forza ready to go when Scorpio is launched.

Believe it or not, playing third party games is what most people spend the majority of there time doing. The xbox one x is setting itself up nicely as a premium product and the best console for playing games in general. I also don't find exclusives to be what moves hardware. Look at xbox one's exclusives for the first year vs the ps4's. Sonys console had less, which where generally not received as well but the ps4 was still by far the better selling console.

Ultimately no one should be frothing at the mouth over exclusives, they are inherently not in the best interest of consumers and will only make up generally a small portion of games that interest someone. Which is one of my reasons i'm glad microsoft has essentially done away with exclusives (they are on two of the three major platforms now) and have opened up crossplay between them in many of there own titles. They have also called on opening up crossplay with sony, which I know people will say it is not in sony's best interest, and that's why they shoot it down. But it is in the consumers best interest, which is why such defences stated with joy that it isn't happening confuse me.

Early days but still promising moves. All sony did this gen was keep everything the same and lock up more exclusive games, release the budget vr system (awesome as it is, it is also the least impressive of the big 3 out there) and make people pay to play online. Which whilst there system is mostly solid, I never understood the overly positive attitude towards the ps4 this gen. It only took away (pay to play online) and didn't add anything back, I mean unless someone really thinks the online is running that much better then before.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Well it's not like the ps4 will just go away. I personally doubt the ps5 will launch in 2018 (as in a whole new console, if it is just an iteration they call the ps5 I could see that happening).

Technology moves fast and I would prefer them use an iterative model (preferably more like a pc in terms of older games not needing patches to run at higher resolutions etc). That said I wouldn't be at all shocked if the ps5 was more or less an iterative device with maybe some exclusives only on ps5 or similar. Meaning new ps5 (or whatever the call it) games wouldn't be shackled by past ps4's, but where essentially otherwise ps4's with more power.

HDMI 2.1 is needed for a next generation VR goggle and of course the Wireless technology AMD purchased for VR googles.

AMD buys Nitero wireless VR startup

If Sony has a new Wireless 4K VR goggle planned for 2019 then it's certain a new PS4/5 with Navi is in the works.

Sony patents Vive-like tracking system, hints at wireless PSVR Patent is quite descriptive. A scanning light beam is produced that the HMD picks up. Two emitting stations on either side of the room are needed. This produces a very accurate tracking for the controller or HMD.

AMD Conference call = new semi-custom win for 2018= PS5?

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by http://www.barrons.com/articles/amd-vaults-10-ceo-su-says-expect-another-semi-custom-project-in-2018-1501022700

su says there'll be another "semi-custom" chip win that will ramp in 2018, though she can't yet say who it's for.

PS5? If there was no semi custom win for 2018 then no new game console. Efficientgaming.eu Tier4 + AMD 2018 semi-custom win = Game Console VERY probably a PS5.

[jeff_rigby]

Game Console Self-Regulatory Initiative (“SRI”) under the Ecodesign Directive (2009/125/EC) started in 2010 and was formally endorsed in April 2015

NEW for 2019

Originally Posted by http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/meetings_and_other_activities/2017_SRI_Review_Report_FINAL_5_July.pdf

The SRI should be reviewed in 2019 at the latest, or earlier if any Signatory announces specifications for a new console with improved computing performance (e.g. improved GPU performance), in which case the review should be completed within one year.

Manufacturers would prepare and submit sufficient information and justification for any such new category of consoles to the SRI Steering Committee and seek confirmation by the Commission before such review is triggered.

Once a review of any higher performing consoles (those either with improved graphical output
or with higher performing technical specifications for components such as CPU, GPU, and memory, compared to those presently defined in the VA) starts, a new category of console and corresponding requirements would be added to the SRI

Console categories NEW Category of consoles complying with above statement

The UHD category should be split into two to reflect consoles launched since the
start of the SRI, including available 4K modes which were not previously
covered in the SRI:

 UHD media capable:
“Game Consoles having potential of rendering video output with
resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) in addition to
capability defined for High Definition Console in media mode only”

 UHD gaming capable:
“Game Consoles having potential of rendering video output with
resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) in addition to
capability defined for High Definition Console in media and gaming mode”

Power caps should be revised as follows: (Tier 4 Jan 2019 = Holiday 2018)
 UHD media capable consoles & HD consoles:
o New tier 4 (2019)
 50 W HD navigation
 60 W HD media play
 UHD media capable consoles:
o New tier 4 (2019)
 50 W 4K navigation
 60 W 4K media play
 UHD gaming capable consoles:
o New tier 4 (2019)
 70 W HD navigation
 70 W HD media play
 70 W 4K navigation
 110 W 4K media play

With respect to the proposed 110 W power cap for 4K media play on UHD capable games consoles, the main Graphics Processor of the console SoC is required to achieve the level of rendering necessary, which results higher power consumption than HD media modes. GPU is still used for Codecs and larger GPU = more power even for Media.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

It gets confusing; Holiday 2019 for 2020? or Holiday 2018 for 2019?

The efficientgaming.eu website has a Jan 2019 power tier with which Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony have agreed to comply or rather Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony have volunteered to comply with the Power Tier they publish to Efficientgaming.eu.

It's not likely a XB1 as the XB1 X is releasing Holiday 2017 and Holiday 2018 is too early for them to have a successor to the XB1 X. Nintendo has gone with much lower power hardware so the next Nintendo is not likely 70 watts for Navigation and Media. That only leaves the PS4 or 5.

Since the latest efficientgaming.EU update was a few weeks ago there shouldn't be any hardware issues with a release 15 months from now...it should be ready to risk tapeout in 3-4 months with full production Q2 2018.

This Playstation console should have the features mentioned in 2012. http://mandetech.com/2012/01/10/sony...uta-interview/

There was much confusion in 2012 due to the Sony CTO Tsuruta interview on the PS4. It was expected there would be "Stacked Memory" (HBM) in the PS4 due to his and other Industry sources. Could this all have been about the 2018 PS4 as he said some of what they wanted in the PS4 was 5+ years away = 2013 + 5 = 2018 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505495

Depends on Cost as the larger Vega GPUs were supposed to use HBM 2 but they used GDDR5 for the XB1 X. HBM3 is supposed to be cheaper and Navi is supposed to use next generation memory. Infinity Fabric allows flexibility in the memory used.



https://www.slideshare.net/Slide_N/p...tainment-world

HDMI 2.1 spec calls for 4K@120FPS with 3D 240FPS which is the rumored PS5 spec with 300 FPS mentioned by the Sony CTO in 2012 and a Sony VP of technology in 2011 mentioning Glass less 3D needing 5 1080P streams (5X 60FPS = 300FPS) and Stacked memory needed for this bandwidth (cited above).

VR = 4K 3D with UHD Blu-ray drive specs = 6X = 4X + Depthmap (2X). HEVC 10 has extensions for 3D
All 3D streaming will move to the UHD standard using depthmap as it's 50% more efficient than HD's framepacked 3D.

Seems too soon to me. 2019 Q2 would be ideal

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Seems too soon to me. 2019 Q2 would be ideal

8 months makes a difference? Do you see some hardware issue?

Interesting information in the SRI I quoted: In 2009 Sony complained to the EU and Energy Star power boards about their proposals to limit Media power that would require separate hardware to support low power media. Sony likened it to providing an "Apple like" SOC @ $60 to the Console. They repeated the same in this SRI noting that the game console would use 110 watts for UHD Media. TVs and blu-ray players have power caps with blu-ray players around 27 watts.

The PS4 with ARM hardware and 256 MB DDR3 (Southbridge) that also has a True Audio DSP, only needs a codec ($10) to support low power media. The PS4 uses the APU's GPU for the codec and apparently the next generation will also. This Sony choice on older PS4s is why there is no UHD Blu-ray as the GPU is not DRM TEE Playready SL3000 secure. The older consoles may be secure enough to support ATSC 3.0 (UHD Capable and Games require no DRM) but not UHD Blu-ray. This is why there are new console categories with the older two being retired:

Retired after 2019
1) HD Console (XB1 up to the XB1 S)
2) UHD Capable (PS4) with resolutions up to or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) but NOT greater (Note the greater in the two new categories).

Greater than 4K below = HDMI 2.1 supports 4K/120 FPS and 8K (necessary for 4K VR Goggles and Glassless 1080P or 4K 3D on 8K TVs) The next PS4s using the GPU for codecs have no problem supporting 8K media. UHD Gaming capable is the second greater standard with it being understood that it also supports UHD or greater media also.

NEW

The UHD category should be split into two to reflect consoles launched since the start of the SRI, including available 4K modes which were not previously covered in the SRI:

 UHD media capable:
“Game Consoles having potential of rendering video output with
resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) in addition to
capability defined for High Definition Console in media mode only”

 UHD gaming capable:
“Game Consoles having potential of rendering video output with
resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) in addition to
capability defined for High Definition Console in media and gaming mode”

The XB1 uses low power ARM hardware for media but the codec and HDMI port can not support UHD until the XB1 S. We do not know what the XB1 X will support.

AMD APUs and dGPUs contain ARM low power media hardware to comply with Energy Star and EU power caps. I do not believe it costs AMD $60 to include this hardware. From 2013 AMD dGPUs and from 2014 AMD APUs (Carrizo forward) can support UHD low power media

Infinity fabric supports GPU and memory DRM so next generation can support UHD blu-ray DRM but power use is an issue unless they get a pass as a Game Console. South bridge ARM security hardware is a part of Infinity fabric so there likely will be no separate South bridge chip.

Blu-ray drives after 2011 likely can support UHD but have DRM issues one being the encryption between drive and TEE over USB or eSATA bus. That encryption likely requires HDCP 2.2 and Trusted Platform standards which only UHD spec drives can support.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Seems too soon to me. 2019 Q2 would be ideal

We both may be correct. Guess: Next PS4 is a step upgrade from PS4 Pro with UHD Media capable I went back to the SRI drafts and finally realized the power caps for 2019 define two separate UHD consoles and neither can be the PS4 Pro.

Originally Posted by efficientgaming.eu

 UHD media capable:
a. UHD media capable Console: Game Consoles having potential of rendering
video output with resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines)
in addition to capability defined for High Definition Console in media mode
only. Tier 4 60 watts for UHD Media.

 UHD gaming capable:
“Game Consoles having potential of rendering video output with
resolutions greater or equal to 4K (3840 pixels x 2160 lines) in addition to
capability defined for High Definition Console in media and gaming mode”
Tier 4 70 watts for HD media and 110 watts for UHD media

PS4 Pro does not have the DRM protections for UHD Media. If this is what is understood by Sony then the Pro is not a true UHD Media console, there is a UHD Media PS4 that does have UHD Blu-ray coming and since it does not need as powerful a GPU for 4K gaming it can come sooner. Tier 4 now has a UHD Media capable Power Cap of 60 watts and a UHD Gaming console with a power cap of 70 watts for HD media and 110 watts for 4K media. This confirms there are two separate definitions and the Tier 3 power caps for the PS4 Pro are higher than 60 watts in Media mode, that eliminates the Pro as one of the two consoles being released 2018-2019.

Holiday 2018 something greater than PS4 Pro with UHD media DRM
Holiday 2018 or sometime 2019 UHD Gaming capable with UHD Media DRM

This makes sense of the several conflicting rumors.