Star Wars: The Original Trilogy (1977-1983)

[Moviefan2k4]

There's plenty of people who like the prequels, myself among them. But I think one problem is it simply became popular, for people with an entitled mentality to whine like crazy when Lucas didn't do as they wished. I've said this many times: if you really think George Lucas raped your childhood, then you didn't have much of one to begin with.

And for the record, I'm no blind Lucas worshiper, either. A New Hope was released just three years before I was born, so I'm a second-generation fan of the series. I was almost 19 when The Phantom Menace premiered; I liked it then and still do now. Yes, there's things in all the films I'd have done differently...but those choices aren't mine to make. What I can do is conduct myself responsibly instead of whining like a spoiled brat, and make statements with my wallet if things get too bad for me to justify supporting Lucasfilm's efforts.

[stvn1974]

The word "entitled" gets thrown around a lot about those of us who don't like what Lucas did with the Prequels and Special Editions. I don't think the people who use it even know what it means most of the time. I think the Prequels are terrible films and what Lucas did to the OT is wrong, not sure what I am supposed to feel entitled to.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

The word "entitled" gets thrown around a lot about those of us who don't like what Lucas did with the Prequels and Special Editions. I don't think the people who use it even know what it means most of the time. I think the Prequels are terrible films and what Lucas did to the OT is wrong, not sure what I am supposed to feel entitled to.

Simply put, your own way instead of Lucas', or whoever currently owns the series' rights. I've seen the speech Lucas made to the Feds trolled on threads around here for a while, where he was upset about outside forces altering movies after-the-fact...but I fail to see what's so horrible about any filmmaker re-editing their own work later, and offering it to people in place of the previous version. For all the complaints I've seen about that, most people still buy the films anyway, further supporting Lucasfilm and defeating their own aims. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that none of us deserve anything. We don't own the films, and if any studio or filmmaker were determined to shelve their work permanently, there's not a thing we could do to stop them. It really comes down to either speaking with your wallet, or shutting up...because that's what most studios understand. The main reason the UOTs haven't been released, is because not enough people want them badly enough to boycott the studio over it.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

The word "entitled" gets thrown around a lot about those of us who don't like what Lucas did with the Prequels and Special Editions. I don't think the people who use it even know what it means most of the time. I think the Prequels are terrible films and what Lucas did to the OT is wrong, not sure what I am supposed to feel entitled to.

I think that term is regarding the people who felt that the prequels weren't what they wanted or expected. Even if they had been executed perfectly, they still wouldn't have been happy with them, as it wasn't what they were looking for. So those fans felt entitled, like they'd been promised something specific since ROTJ, and they didn't get it. Cue the whining and the Lucas raped my childhood comments.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

...and the Lucas raped my childhood comments.

Want some fire, strawman?

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by octagon

Want some fire, strawman?

[octagon]

The only people who ever drag out the 'raped my childhood' canard do so to knock it down.

That's a textbook examples of a strawman.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

There's plenty of people who like the prequels, myself among them. But I think one problem is it simply became popular, for people with an entitled mentality to whine like crazy when Lucas didn't do as they wished. I've said this many times: if you really think George Lucas raped your childhood, then you didn't have much of one to begin with.

And for the record, I'm no blind Lucas worshiper, either. A New Hope was released just three years before I was born, so I'm a second-generation fan of the series. I was almost 19 when The Phantom Menace premiered; I liked it then and still do now. Yes, there's things in all the films I'd have done differently...but those choices aren't mine to make. What I can do is conduct myself responsibly instead of whining like a spoiled brat, and make statements with my wallet if things get too bad for me to justify supporting Lucasfilm's efforts.

Stop...please. You are covering this ground again? You are not even old enough to be in the original Star Wars 1st generation fandom. He wrecked Star Wars in 1997 for us. Nuff said.

Now when the day comes that an official HD release of the Unaltered Original Trilogy comes out I'm sure we will forgive and love again. But until that day comes in Harmy we trust and no other!

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Stop...please. You are covering this ground again? You are not even old enough to be in the original Star Wars 1st generation fandom. He wrecked Star Wars in 1997 for us. Nuff said.

Now when the day comes that an official HD release of the Unaltered Original Trilogy comes out I'm sure we will forgive and love again. But until that day comes in Harmy we trust and no other!

Like I said, "entitled". Thank you for proving my point.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by octagon

The only people who ever drag out the 'raped my childhood' canard do so to knock it down.

That's a textbook examples of a strawman.

I'm not saying it's not representative of how many fans feel, but it's a pretty horrendous statement to express one's feelings towards a trilogy of films. I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're getting at, I don't use the phrase, and it's not representative of how I feel, but a lot of the prequel haters feel like that, as the film's weren't anything like what they were expecting or wanted.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Stop...please. You are covering this ground again? You are not even old enough to be in the original Star Wars 1st generation fandom. He wrecked Star Wars in 1997 for us. Nuff said.

Now when the day comes that an official HD release of the Unaltered Original Trilogy comes out I'm sure we will forgive and love again. But until that day comes in Harmy we trust and no other!

Well I'm old enough, and Lucas did not wreck anything for me. They are his creations and he can do what he did what he wanted. If people do not like it, do not watch the movies. Plenty of other movies to enjoy.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I'm not saying it's not representative of how many fans feel, but it's a pretty horrendous statement to express one's feelings towards a trilogy of films. I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're getting at, I don't use the phrase, and it's not representative of how I feel, but a lot of the prequel haters feel like that, as the film's weren't anything like what they were expecting or wanted.

Look, the prequels are dogshit. You can try and explain away all of the problems that are there but, in the end, you should admit that they're not only bad Star Wars films but bad films period.

I have lots of films that people would consider "bad" in my collection and I completely admit that. I own Superman 3 and 4. Jaws 3 and 4. I love em. But I'm also aware that they're bad movies. I OWN UP TO IT. Yet I love them anyway.

So I'd have no problems discussing the prequels if people would look at them for what they are. You can say that it's "just my opinion" but, Hell, doesn't that mean that we shouldn't look at The Godfather or Casablanca as classics?

If having an educated opinion makes me entitled...

Originally Posted by mwynn

Well I'm old enough, and Lucas did not wreck anything for me. They are his creations and he can do what he did what he wanted. If people do not like it, do not watch the movies. Plenty of other movies to enjoy.

Well, considering he only directed one of them, how about the other 2? And, just perhaps...people would like to watch the movies as they were originally released and stood for 20 years. Again, if you don't understand that, you're being purposefully naive and blind.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Look, the prequels are dogshit. You can try and explain away all of the problems that are there but, in the end, you should admit that they're not only bad Star Wars films but bad films period.

I have lots of films that people would consider "bad" in my collection and I completely admit that. I own Superman 3 and 4. Jaws 3 and 4. I love em. But I'm also aware that they're bad movies. I OWN UP TO IT. Yet I love them anyway.

So I'd have no problems discussing the prequels if people would look at them for what they are. You can say that it's "just my opinion" but, Hell, doesn't that mean that we shouldn't look at The Godfather or Casablanca as classics?

If having an educated opinion makes me entitled...

I didn't say you're entitled, but it's the way many of the fans reacted at the time, that they expected something, and got something else. But you're saying the prequels are "dogshit", I just can't agree with that. It's again a fan stating his/her opinion as fact, so basically everyone else who disagrees is wrong.

Do I think they are great films? No. They are extremely flawed, they are clunky, they have bad acting. But they also have a lot of good stuff in them, and the underlying story is compelling. They are ambitious, and they have a hell of a lot of imagination on display. So I can see what Lucas was aiming for with them, it's just the execution at times was poorly handled. Does that make them outright awful? For you, abso-god-damn-lutely, but not for me.

I also own Jaws 3 and 4, and Superman 3 and 4, and get a lot of entertainment out of them, but I also realise they are pretty terrible to varying degrees. But jeez, they're just films made to make a quick buck out of a couple of well known franchises.

The prequels were never that, they had a story to tell, and a legitimate reason to be made. So they are very different from other kinds of "bad" movies to me, and I don't even think there's any comparison between them and the previously mentioned franchise films.

It just gets so, so, incredibly tiring every time the prequels are mentioned, that someone like yourself comes along and states their opinion as some kind of universal fact, in an extremely arrogant and condescending way. I don't think much of TFA, but I don't go around stating my opinion of it as fact, as if everyone who enjoys it is some kind of blind buffoon.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Well, considering he only directed one of them, how about the other 2? And, just perhaps...people would like to watch the movies as they were originally released and stood for 20 years. Again, if you don't understand that, you're being purposefully naive and blind.

Who is stopping you from watching them. The VHS tapes and laser discs are available. So because he did not direct them, they are not his creations?

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by aiman04

The masses? Kindly show us the statistics, how the survey was conducted, the scientific methods, and so on along with the audit report by PWC. So what are we talking about here, 6.9 billion out of 7 billion humans on the planet? Or only 10 out of 7 billion like the prequels? Enlighten us.

You're responding to a known troll and thread crapper, don't bother with them.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're getting at, I don't use the phrase,...

You used it like two posts ago.

Cue the whining and the Lucas raped my childhood comments.

What I'm trying to say is that the only people who use this pretty horrendous statement are people like you who use it as a way of criticizing people who bash Lucas.

Hence straw man.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Well, considering he only directed one of them, how about the other 2? And, just perhaps...people would like to watch the movies as they were originally released and stood for 20 years. Again, if you don't understand that, you're being purposefully naive and blind.

Just for the record, Lucas pretty much co-directed Return of the Jedi, since Richard Marquand had little (if any) experience with special effects. The only entry he left (mostly) alone was The Empire Strikes Back, but he still checked Kershner's progress every so often. But the fact still remains that both Kershner and Marquand were directors-for-hire, tasked with executing Lucas' vision to the best of their ability. Its very likely Spielberg was treated the same way, with his contributions to Revenge of the Sith.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

It just gets so, so, incredibly tiring every time the prequels are mentioned, that someone like yourself comes along and states their opinion as some kind of universal fact, in an extremely arrogant and condescending way. I don't think much of TFA, but I don't go around stating my opinion of it as fact, as if everyone who enjoys it is some kind of blind buffoon.

Just like it would get so incredibly tiring to try and defend Jaws the Revenge as something it's not. So I don't. I understand that it's an incredibly crappy movie that I happen to enjoy. Same for you and the prequels. Though I would argue that there's no dialogue or performance in Revenge that's as laughably bad as talking about sand.

Originally Posted by mwynn

Who is stopping you from watching them. The VHS tapes and laser discs are available. So because he did not direct them, they are not his creations?

Nothing at all. I've got my despecialized editions and refuse to watch the official blu's. They're worthless and shame on Lucas and Lucasfilm for not releasing the original films. It's pretty repugnant of them.

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Just for the record, Lucas pretty much co-directed Return of the Jedi, since Richard Marquand had little (if any) experience with special effects. The only entry he left (mostly) alone was The Empire Strikes Back, but he still checked Kershner's progress every so often. But the fact still remains that both Kershner and Marquand were directors-for-hire, tasked with executing Lucas' vision to the best of their ability. Its very likely Spielberg was treated the same way, with his contributions to Revenge of the Sith.

You can "pretty much" until the cows come home but the official record stands. He didn't direct them.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by octagon

You used it like two posts ago.

Cue the whining and the Lucas raped my childhood comments.

What I'm trying to say is that the only people who use this pretty horrendous statement are people like you who use it as a way of criticizing people who bash Lucas.

Hence straw man.

I don't use the phrase myself to describe my reaction to the films, I referenced other people using it at the time who hate them, there's a difference. I also said it was the fans who felt they were entitled to films they didn't get, who then used said phrase. I never said Lucas or the prequels are excempt from criticism, far from it, but I don't use the phrase as a way of criticising people who bash Lucas. I was talking about the reaction at the time, that phrase reflected the strong reactions that some fans had, thus, cue the whining and the Lucas raped my childhood comments.

But that hyperbolic statement only reflects the extreme view of some fans who hate the prequels, who I would say have an unhealthy hatred towards them and Lucas. So you can kindly bugger off with your patronising "people like you" crap, when I was clearly referencing the phrase to show how bloody nuts many of these "fans" are.

[aiman04]

Such a beautiful day.