Archived: Insiders Thread

[efralope]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

No doubt that SD extras really don't enhance the experience in terms of audio/video on an HD disc (although it really helps showcase the difference of high-def), but I think most people don't want to own 2 copies of every movie. A single definitive package on Blu-ray and/or HD DVD would help enthusiasts replace their DVD collections, and would give first-time buyers of the movie assurance that they don't need to spend more to get the complete experience.

As strange as it may sound, I'm not a sucker for extras and usually don't bother with them unless I love the movie, but psychologically there is something about not having a complete version that irks me (which is why I spring for 2-disc SE sets on DVD for a few dollars more).

As an example, I'd be much more confident in my purchase of the Pirates movies (extras from DVD + HD version of movie) than Kingdom of Heaven (no extras) because I don't fear the eventual double dip is going to be happening as soon.

That's not to say audio and video don't come first, but why not get the best of both worlds? Thank you for your input and allowing us to give feedback.

[PeterTHX]

^^^^

Paidgeek, I completely agree with what efralope said (except I am a sucker for extras).

I would love my BD to be the definitive edition. All extras from all previous versions, even if they're SD.

[jamen6]

Paidgeek, is their any upcoming promotion that's going to push Blu-Ray even more??? i.e. more commercials, etc.

Thanks for all of your information! You're great!

[onyxx]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

I have created a poll at: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=12325, please vote everyone!

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

What SPHE and perhaps other studios can do is to have SD extras as a seperate menu with the appropriate cards that warn users of a lower PQ than the feature. Maybe I'll start the poll but I think people would say, extras is cool so long as it doesn't affect the AQ and PQ.

As you may have noticed (or may not), newbies to BD sometimes complain that the movie does not present itself in full on their HDTVs. Of course, they don't understand about OAR with 2.39:1 movies on 16x9 screens. If only Warner had release Gone With The Wind would they get a reverse situation.

We here in the forum are all exasperated in explaining this to newbie. A sticky is not going to cut it because newbies like to open new threads! So I suggest that instead of us doing something about it, how about the studios do that for a change.

For 2.39:1 or wider movies, the studios can do short promos explaining OAR by using footages of the titles in question. Say Lawrence Of Arabia and Spider-man 3. The voice-over can be the same but the shots used are from LoA and Spider-man 3 respectively. Keep explaining OAR and 16x9 this way for the next five years and the studios can avoid the dual-inventory issues you guys have with P&S and WS DVDs. All BD studios should do this to get this message across.


fuad

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

Paidgeek, I understand this position. It would be good, as a minimum, if current and future "extras" developed for "day & date" releases could be done in hi def. For the DVD versions they could be down converted but for the Blu-ray version encoded in hi def. Thanks again.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

Paidgeek, I understand this position. It would be good, as a minimum, if current and future "extras" developed for "day & date" releases could be done in hi def. For the DVD versions they could be down converted but for the Blu-ray version encoded in hi def. Thanks again.

I agree with Paidgeek on this. Watching SD extras on an HD disc is highly unsatisfying.

[Chris Beveridge]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

If anything, I think it provides two very distinct things;

One is that it gives people like myself who bought the original a reason to really look at the upgrade. If I don't get to keep all the content I already have, then I'll just be happy catching the film itself either through HD VOD, pay channel or elsewhere.

THe other is the quality disparity. Being able to present both new HD extras alongside any existing SD ones highlights the visual differences in the formats and helps to sell this format better. Particularly when it comes to clips from the film itself as you get to see how different the quality really is.

[DaViD Boulet]

Paidgeek,

I LOVE the new Fifth Element. Watched it on my friend's JVC HD2K projector and saw no "ringing" as has been mentioned in a few reviews. Can you comment on the alegged "EE" on the new disc that some reviewers have noted (which I didn't see myself)?

Any insider:

any word on the first BD+ title? Any word on Fox?

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

What SPHE and perhaps other studios can do is to have SD extras as a seperate menu with the appropriate cards that warn users of a lower PQ than the feature. Maybe I'll start the poll but I think people would say, extras is cool so long as it doesn't affect the AQ and PQ.

fuad

The notices should not only be for different levels of Picture Quality, but also for different aspect ratios if the main feature (movie) is 16:9 and the extras are 4:3.

I look forward to LucasFilm (or whomever) getting a system of auxiliary information being provided in the data stream so that players and/or monitors do the right thing automatically to prevent stretch/squash.

Cheers!
-Jim

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

This has been one of those tough issues that tend to generate conflicting viewpoints. It is certainly possible to use the SD added value, and while it is not my decision, I am not in favor of the SD content from the DVD versions because I don't think it presents well on an HD disc. I would welcome a poll on this subject if you care to start one.

While I have my opinion (better to have them than not), just including them would help the scores on highdefdigest.com. For instance, this review of Immortal Beloved:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/immortalbeloved.html

points out that there are some SD extras on there and even mentions it in the "Final Thoughts" section.

It also mentions the ability to have the English subtitles in a different spot and I have a question there. Is it possible to give the user the ability to move the subtitles just about anywhere with BD-J? I thought I read that some HD DVDs had this feature with HDi.

--Darin

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by patrick99

I agree with Paidgeek on this. Watching SD extras on an HD disc is highly unsatisfying.

But, it's better than nothing.

Think of all those people who have/had bootlegs of material not available for sale. Heavy Metal in the early 90s, that Carpenter's movie made with Barbies, the Star Wars Christmas Special, etc.

Given the choice of something low quality and slightly unsatisfying versus not having anything at all, I think most people would pick low quality and slightly unsatisfying.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

If anything, I think it provides two very distinct things;

One is that it gives people like myself who bought the original a reason to really look at the upgrade. If I don't get to keep all the content I already have, then I'll just be happy catching the film itself either through HD VOD, pay channel or elsewhere.

THe other is the quality disparity. Being able to present both new HD extras alongside any existing SD ones highlights the visual differences in the formats and helps to sell this format better. Particularly when it comes to clips from the film itself as you get to see how different the quality really is.

Excellent points.

[Frode]

To add to what Chris said, the BD not having extras is particularly a problem for day and date releases of both BD and DVD. If the DVD has extras and the BD doesn't that makes the BD a much harder sell, and sends the wrong message. The new formats should ideally be an improvement in all aspects; audio, video and extras. If improvement for the extras isn't possible, then at least parity should be a minimum IMO.

[DaViD Boulet]

To add to what Chris said, the BD not having extras is particularly a
problem for day and date releases of both BD and DVD. If the DVD has
extras and the BD doesn't that makes the BD a much harder sell, and
sends the wrong message. The new formats should ideally be an
improvement in all aspects; audio, video and extras. If improvement for
the extras isn't possible, then at least parity should be a minimum IMO.

Precisely.

Regardless of whether any thread participants here do or don't enjoy bonus material, I hope we can all agree on this basic point. The BD should never be "less than" the commensurate SD DVD release... in any regard.

[CptGreedle]

Absolutely! I think that there should be more extras on a BD anyways, since we have to pay more for the discs in the first place.
But the extras should never drive up the price of the disc.

[monkyman]

When I pre-order a disc, I usually have no idea what, if any extras are included. I buy it for the movie. Now I do agree that the extras should be there for those that want them, as long as they don't compromise PQ or SQ.

[DaViD Boulet]

Please see my thread regarding 3-D potentiality with Blu-ray Disc.

I feel this is a very important issue that needs attention early in the life of BD-J:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=143122

[kurtlingle]

Insiders:

Thanks so much for your time and effort here.

I saw the "Official" announcement of the Denon BD player. Is this the product/news some were hinting at a number of weeks ago? Or is there more good news on the way?

Either way it's pretty cool that one more company is committed to the success of BD.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I would love my BD to be the definitive edition. All extras from all previous versions, even if they're SD.

If it were possible to eventually get HD extras, they wouldn't be definitive. In the future, when the economies are there to pay for restoration of film documentary elements and new documentary etc, HD extras could become available. Then, it becomes difficult to justify a re-purchase just because of the extras.

And sometimes it would mean require a move to a BD50 from a BD25, which also would impact the economics of the release. That is, we may not get a title because the BD50 cost couldn't be justified, or the replication lines are busy.

I see both sides of the argument. But, I can go buy the DVD for $5 - $7.50 if I want the DVD extras so much.

Gary