Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Steedeel, you and I may not see things eye to eye but we have some great discussions. I never felt this Thread was a Poll, but why one would pick Digital HD or Physical. Of course there are benefits to both, but I feel Digital HD should not be put down. It has come a long way from the beginning of this Post. So if people prefer Disc, that's fine just don't put Digital HD down that's all I ask!

And no one is forcing either of you to contribute to a thread without being able to back up your facts. If you aren't willing to put in the effort how can you expect any of us to take either one of you seriously? You can't ask someone to do something you aren't willing to do yourselves. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. Neither formats are the beginning or ending of the each other. What more is there to discuss? I'd encourage you both to go back and re-read how this thread got started to understand what the OP was asking.

[GuyIncognito]

They both suck...go see a play

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

They both suck...go see a play

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You don't have to spout positive, but don't be so negative. Like I have always said, it's all Digital now so it shouldn't really matter. I say you either Stream from a Disc or you Stream from a Server. Movies put on a Disc or put on a Server are still Digital, so where is the downfall. I really can't see a difference, because we are talking about the same thing Stored on a Disc or Stored on a Server......Same, Same!

You saying this over and over again doesn't make it true.

As has been stated before, the biggest issue is that with Digital HD/streaming, you are reliant on the company on the other end to maintain their servers, and not have any issues with the studios and so forth that they work with that could effect the content that you purchase.

With disc, that is not an issue.


As for the rest of this, while the quality of digital streaming, particularly picture quality, may be improving (the audio quality still has a LONG way to go), until when and if the file being streamed is literally the exact same file being released on the disc with no additional compression/reduction for the version being streamed, and until the infrastructure to allow a file of that size to be streamed with no dips in quality while viewing... with having internet access of that speed not being cost prohibitive for most average people (i.e. the cost needs to be close to what they are paying now), and data caps aren't an issue... THEN at least in regards to the quality, you will be right. While digital distribution is improving, I still think we are a LONG ways off for digital to offer an exact 1:1 experience that the disc counterpart offers.


Saying that it's "all digital" and therefore "it's all the same" is like saying that "it's all pizza" no matter where you go to get a pizza from. Sure, they are all made from some variation of dough, sauce, cheese, and a choice of toppings, but if you order roughly the same pizza (i.e. same type of crust with the same toppings) from 10 different pizza places, to some extent or another you are likely going to have 10 different experiences in how each of them tastes. Some may be more similar than others, but short of ordering from two different locations of the exact same chain that follows the exact same standards at all locations, you are unlikely to get two pizzas that are completely or even very close to being identical in how they taste.



I do think Steedeel is often WAY over the top with his long term concerns (i.e. large sized TVs going away, most people watching movies on phones and watches). But your counterpoints really aren't much better.

[The_Donster]

^^You bring up an interesting point Dynamo. I utilize both. I buy what I know I'm going to watch more than every so often and stream the rest. Like your Pizza analogy, not all internet is created equal depending on where you live. I'm very fortunate, it is pretty decent in my area. I have friends in various around the United States that aren't as fortunate. So while I'm ready for a move, I'm hoping it is to an area that has decent internet to accommodate my streaming. Otherwise I'll be upping my BD rental through Netflix or buying more physical.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

And no one is forcing either of you to contribute to a thread without being able to back up your facts. If you aren't willing to put in the effort how can you expect any of us to take either one of you seriously? You can't ask someone to do something you aren't willing to do yourselves. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. Neither formats are the beginning or ending of the each other. What more is there to discuss? I'd encourage you both to go back and re-read how this thread got started to understand what the OP was asking.

It’s naive of you to think that the thread would take the direction you think it should.

I do back up my facts. I have already been proven right about my prediction of UV going away. I even stated Disney’s KeyChest would take over. That’s without any insider knowledge. The point was argued but I certainly didn’t get folks acknowledging it. For the other stuff, it’s a bit hard to back up as it’s in the future. I’m not Marty Mcfly. It’s predictions and this forum is full of them. If you mean the HMV stuff, it’s sad that you and others can’t take someone’s word.

In essence, I believe Digital will ultimately prove to be a bad thing. I see Disney and Apple’s domination of the future landscape squeezing out more ‘adult’ drama and entertainment. I see a very restricted blockbuster slate of superheroes and space adventures dominating EVEN MORE than they do now going foreward . I see lack of choice as a very bad thing and Digital kicked all this off. I know some will say ‘that could happen with a disc based world’. No, no it ******* wouldn’t. Netflix has opened up a world of all you can eat content but juggernauts like Disney and Apple will topple such services with their own. As a devout lover of all kinds of film and especially dark thrillers/Horror, I see a huge back cloud on the horizon. That cloud is pixelated and it’s about to spawn rain that will wash away the films I want to see. Maybe that might just be the Sky I see falling. Just don’t go complaining guys if the entertainment you crave becomes scarce, you will have brought it on yourselves.

Goodbye for now.

[Dunk the Lunk]

Everyone talks about streaming but to me ‘digital’ also includes download services such as kaleidescape. Blu-ray quality digital download. UV compatible. Potential for digital upgrades. Their service has all the advantages of both physical and digital. The major disadvantage is cost of their equipment, however if this type of service is successful it should push Netflix, Apple et al to increase the quality of their download services.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

^^You bring up an interesting point Dynamo. I utilize both. I buy what I know I'm going to watch more than every so often and stream the rest. Like your Pizza analogy, not all internet is created equal depending on where you live. I'm very fortunate, it is pretty decent in my area. I have friends in various around the United States that aren't as fortunate. So while I'm ready for a move, I'm hoping it is to an area that has decent internet to accommodate my streaming. Otherwise I'll be upping my BD rental through Netflix or buying more physical.

You bring up a good point, moving if Internet will be high on your list it sounds like it will be a Hit or Miss. I have moved several times in a few decades, and the last time Internet was a big deciding factor. Having Retired from AT&T gave me a good grounding for the Internet, and strong belief in Hard Wired Cat5. So I went from DSL, and running my own Cat5 to having my next two homes with Pre-Wired Structured Cat5 and FTTH in my last move. So my question, are you going to give Internet a big consideration?

I know many people feel getting Fiber as an Infrastructure is a pipe dream, but that is far from the truth. Like I said, back in 2000 I moved from the Bay Area California with DSL to Palm Desert and all I had available was Dial-Up. Well that didn't stop me from wanting better Internet with more Bandwidth. So my Community of 5000 homes had an HOA that was agreeable to form an Internet Group to find Providers to give us Faster Internet. Within a year we had both Time Warner Cable and Verizon FiOS offering us their Services. So if you put Internet at the top of your Priority List, it's possible to get whatever you want. So I set the bar at Fiber when I left Palm Desert, having FiOS there and looked for a Fiber Provider in ST George.

[talkingpictures]

How much does broadband packages cost in the US and what speeds do you guys receive? The UK isn't great for broadband speeds, unless you have fibre. I used to have 3mbps download until I got fibre and now it's something like 50-55 mbps. Plus switching providers when the contract finishes helps to keep costs low. Rival providers always have deals for new customers so the end cost isn't too much.

[Batman90]

Originally Posted by talkingpictures

How much does broadband packages cost in the US and what speeds do you guys receive? The UK isn't great for broadband speeds, unless you have fibre. I used to have 3mbps download until I got fibre and now it's something like 50-55 mbps. Plus switching providers when the contract finishes helps to keep costs low. Rival providers always have deals for new customers so the end cost isn't too much.

I got gigabyte internet the best is $100 and I only really have 2 choices for unlimited internet Como or Charter and Charter is not gigabyte internet so I would be paying the say price for the best package. Then I have satellite Internet in my area and I canceled it after only having it 2 weeks.

[talkingpictures]

Originally Posted by Batman90

I got gigabyte internet the best is $100 and I only really have 2 choices for unlimited internet Como or Charter and Charter is not gigabyte internet so I would be paying the say price for the best package. Then I have satellite Internet in my area and I canceled it after only having it 2 weeks.

Is that $100 per month?

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by talkingpictures

Is that $100 per month?

LOL, yeah a month talkingpictures. I think we pay around that, maybe a little more for our cable and internet plan? Wife keeps changing up the channels on me, which frustrates me since all I do is watch bds, streams and game in my room. We had HBO when I first got my KS8000, so I'd use the app. Then she changed plans to some crappy Encore service which was fine initially, but then Starz had a falling out with Xfinity and merged the two apps. Still, I have plenty to watch depending on my mood.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You bring up a good point, moving if Internet will be high on your list it sounds like it will be a Hit or Miss. I have moved several times in a few decades, and the last time Internet was a big deciding factor. Having Retired from AT&T gave me a good grounding for the Internet, and strong belief in Hard Wired Cat5. So I went from DSL, and running my own Cat5 to having my next two homes with Pre-Wired Structured Cat5 and FTTH in my last move. So my question, are you going to give Internet a big consideration?

I know many people feel getting Fiber as an Infrastructure is a pipe dream, but that is far from the truth. Like I said, back in 2000 I moved from the Bay Area California with DSL to Palm Desert and all I had available was Dial-Up. Well that didn't stop me from wanting better Internet with more Bandwidth. So my Community of 5000 homes had an HOA that was agreeable to form an Internet Group to find Providers to give us Faster Internet. Within a year we had both Time Warner Cable and Verizon FiOS offering us their Services. So if you put Internet at the top of your Priority List, it's possible to get whatever you want. So I set the bar at Fiber when I left Palm Desert, having FiOS there and looked for a Fiber Provider in ST George.

But how realistic is it for most people to make internet speed (at the level of streaming HD/UHD movies with no drops in quality) their top focus when moving? Maybe it was for you, being retired and all, and possibly not having other priorities that conflicted with it, but that's not necessarily going to be the case for most people.

People's reasons for moving vary, but some of the more common reasons for doing so include at least one or a couple/few of the following...

-Moving for a new job that requires relocating
-Moving to upgrade to a larger home
-Moving based on school districts to send kids to good schools
-Moving to be closer to family (presumably as a result of either the person/people moving now having previously moved away, or the family relocating elsewhere previously).
-Moving to save on costs/downsize (often when people get older and towards retirement, but also if someone ends up with a reduction in income and/or just wants to cut expenses to save more money).

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but those are the big ones.

These days unless someone is moving to some really remote, rural area or something akin to that, most areas have internet speeds that, even if not optimal for really high quality movie/TV streaming, are at least more than good enough for most other common internet uses, and still can be used for streaming - just not without dips in quality and the like. So it's not as if people are limited to choosing between absolute tops speeds or nothing at all.


If someone is moving to be closer to a new job, for example, then things like their commute and the cost of housing is going to be a bigger consideration than internet speed. If having the best internet speed means having a significantly longer commute and/or living in an area where the cost of housing is significantly higher, then internet speed likely will not take precedent.

Most people who live in areas with the top speeds probably moved there for other reasons and having that level of internet access available is just a coincidence, rather than because of them specifically planning their move around it.

If anything, the very idea of having to make that a consideration at all when moving is just another big knock against digital streaming IMO. While things may improve over time, we are a long ways off from the needed infrastructure being put in place in most/all areas to support that level of speed.

And since sticking with discs means just having to have electricity, and internet speeds not really being a huge concern, it's just another big plus for physical media that you don't have to relocate just to get the maximum picture quality from the source.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by talkingpictures

Is that $100 per month?

Originally Posted by The_Donster

LOL, yeah a month talkingpictures. I think we pay around that, maybe a little more for our cable and internet plan? Wife keeps changing up the channels on me, which frustrates me since all I do is watch bds, streams and game in my room. We had HBO when I first got my KS8000, so I'd use the app. Then she changed plans to some crappy Encore service which was fine initially, but then Starz had a falling out with Xfinity and merged the two apps. Still, I have plenty to watch depending on my mood.

Yes, I also pay $100+/mo but I have FTTH Internet and IPTV. I feel with Streaming and Cloud Services, everyone is going to need Fiber. So no one has answered my question. Is Fiber going to be at the Top of your List?

[bubba111]

No. As Dynamo of Eternia said, most people move for different reasons.

If you think people will change geographical locations just for faster Internet, you are just as disconnected from reality as Steedeel.

[talkingpictures]

Americans seem to pay much more for broadband than the UK. Do the companies there have some sort of monopoly? My contract cost around £400 for fibre plus the phone line rental. Plus it came with a prepaid credit card as a gift for new customers, bringing the total down to approx £250/$329.

It will be finishing next month, so I will be switching to another provider to avoid higher out-of-contract charges and other companies also give gifts for new customers. The broadband providers here are all reliable and as long you get fibre, then the speeds should stay consistent around 30-50mpbs (depending on location) for the cheapest package.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes, I also pay $100+/mo but I have FTTH Internet and IPTV. I feel with Streaming and Cloud Services, everyone is going to need Fiber. So no one has answered my question. Is Fiber going to be at the Top of your List?

On the top of their list of priorities if they are moving, or as the specific reason why they are moving in the first place? Most likely no in most instances. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the idea of that being the focus of the average person's move is rather ridiculous.

[Blu-Benny]

seeing how people are experiencing movies dropping from HD to SD on VUDU and Movies Anywhere......I'm super pumped I'm very very pro-physical media.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes, I also pay $100+/mo but I have FTTH Internet and IPTV. I feel with Streaming and Cloud Services, everyone is going to need Fiber. So no one has answered my question. Is Fiber going to be at the Top of your List?

Originally Posted by bubba111

No. As Dynamo of Eternia said, most people move for different reasons.

If you think people will change geographical locations just for faster Internet, you are just as disconnected from reality as Steedeel.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

On the top of their list of priorities if they are moving, or as the specific reason why they are moving in the first place? Most likely no in most instances. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the idea of that being the focus of the average person's move is rather ridiculous.

Moving for more Bandwidth on your Internet might sound ridiculous, but a High Speed Internet is used for more than Streaming Movies and TV Shows. I have been Retired for a while, but I used my Internet to work from home accessing my Systems and all I had to do was forward my calls to my Home Office. If you read my prior Post, in one move all I had was Dial-Up but that didn't stop me I was part of the Internet Group to research and acquire High Speed Providers. We found TWC and Verizon FiOS. So don't say it can't be done, because I have done it!

[whipnet]

You can get 10gb with copper. Why the need for fiber?

/poke.