Disney is suing Redbox to stop it from selling digital download codes

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Can you give a source for this?

A source for what?

I’m looking at a UV code I have for Ali, and it plainly states “Licensed for consumer use only. Not for sale or resale.” No exclusions, no exceptions are listed.

The onus is not on the content owner to prove Redbox can’t sell the digital copy. It’s on Redbox to prove they have the right to sell it. Nothing I’ve come across on any digital copy I’ve seen/redeemed gives permission to the owner of said digital copy to sell or otherwise transfer ownership of it.

Please find language on any redemption sheet that says something to the effect of “As long as you bought this at retail, you are allowed to do what you want with it.”


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[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

A source for what?

I’m looking at a UV code I have for Ali, and it plainly states “Licensed for consumer use only. Not for sale or resale.” No exclusions, no exceptions are listed.

The onus is not on the content owner to prove Redbox can’t sell the digital copy. It’s on Redbox to prove they have the right to sell it. Nothing I’ve come across on any digital copy I’ve seen/redeemed gives permission to the owner of said digital copy to sell or otherwise transfer ownership of it.

Please find language on any redemption sheet that says something to the effect of “As long as you bought this at retail, you are allowed to do what you want with it.”


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"Consumer use" can include the consumer selling parts of it. Your mattress also says that you cannot remove the tag under penalty of law. That doesn't apply to the person who buys the mattress. It's for the seller.

Is it alright to buy the movie, use the code, and sell the discs? It's the exact same thing but in reverse.

Like I said, those instructions are not for telling what the owner of the disc can do with the product. It's for the store who is selling the disc. To use Walmart as an example again, they do not want the store to buy the combo packs and selling the pieces separately. They don't want them opening their products and selling the 4K disc, blu-ray disc, DVD disc, and digital copy as four different products that they removed from one package.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

None of that is legally binding. When Walmart or Target buys their movies from Disney they sign a contract. It would be a violation of that contract to split up the movies and sell the DVDs, Blu-rays, and digital codes individually. When Redbox buys Disney movies from Walmart or Target no contract is signed.

Redbox has no agreement with Disney so Disney can't dictate what Redbox can do with it's own property. As I previously stated just because Disney states that codes can't be sold, doesn't mean it is illegal to do so.

the legally binding portion would come from shrink wrap licenses when you open the package you broke the shrink wrap and in so doing agreed to the licensing for the digital copy which said no sale transfer etc.

The way its written I always thought it would basically be legal to buy a package use the code then sell the blu and dvd under first sale (studios would still hate this but it would be almost impossible to really win a case like that in court given first sales precedence already set up for disc sales and the inability to transfer digital copies) because the license says you cant sell or transfer the digital copy but it says nothing about selling the blu ray or dvd (and precedence for thats already been established).

The legality of going the other way isn't so clear because you would be violating the written instructions on the code and violating the license. It then comes down to is what was written on the code sheets legally binding and if you broke the license are you committing a copyright violation.

Its also a bit confusing on who is more liable the guy selling codes or the guy buying codes. You are violating the license when you sell a digital copy and if the license isn't proper you could easily argue the buyer is committing copyright infringement (and the sellers enabling the buyer making the seller just as guilty).

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by veritas

the legally binding portion would come from shrink wrap licenses when you open the package you broke the shrink wrap and in so doing agreed to the licensing for the digital copy which said no sale transfer etc.

The way its written I always thought it would basically be legal to buy a package use the code then sell the blu and dvd under first sale (studios would still hate this but it would be almost impossible to really win a case like that in court given first sales precedence already set up for disc sales and the inability to transfer digital copies) because the license says you cant sell or transfer the digital copy but it says nothing about selling the blu ray or dvd (and precedence for thats already been established).

The legality of going the other way isn't so clear because you would be violating the written instructions on the code and violating the license. It then comes down to is what was written on the code sheets legally binding and if you broke the license are you committing a copyright violation.

Its also a bit confusing on who is more liable the guy selling codes or the guy buying codes. You are violating the license when you sell a digital copy and if the license isn't proper you could easily argue the buyer is committing copyright infringement (and the sellers enabling the buyer making the seller just as guilty).

So you are legally bound by a "contract" that you cannot read until you open the package? Is there anything on the outside of the package which states this (since we're all playing armchair lawyer in here)?

I'm going to open a store where I have signs posted in the back of the store which states that by entering the front doors you are required to sign a 1 year membership fee and that by entering the front doors means you consented to said contract.

Or better yet, a car dealership where when people turn on the car to take a test drive the navigation system prompts them that by entering the car they agreed to lease the car for the next three years

[veritas]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

So you are legally bound by a "contract" that you cannot read until you open the package? Is there anything on the outside of the package which states this (since we're all playing armchair lawyer in here)?

I'm going to open a store where I have signs posted in the back of the store which states that by entering the front doors you are required to sign a 1 year membership fee and that by entering the front doors means you consented to said contract.

Or better yet, a car dealership where when people turn on the car to take a test drive the navigation system prompts them that by entering the car they agreed to lease the car for the next three years

it also says it on the back of the package in size 5 print along with in size 15 print on the code sheet and sometimes in size 3 print it says go to website for terms condition and expiration date. the information isn't just on the inside on the package but it will give you a migraine trying to read it its so small. The websites you redeem these codes at also normally have terms and conditions which will state you are not to sell or transfer the codes somewhere I assume.

Basically its their in a few places but god is it hard to find.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I'm really confused as to why anyone is on Disney's side here. And I'm even more confused as to why anyone who thinks that studios have absolute control over everything to do with digital copies are buying them (especially you BlakkMajik3000). You're giving away a lot of rights for a bit of convenience.

we arent really on disneys side so much as saying both sides the lawyers are going to argue. Disney has a case and they have lawyers to back it up. Their is a risk to them that they will lose and set up a precedence that will make code trading legally white which is why companies are reluctant to fight this fight because they do have a lot to lose.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by veritas

it also says it on the back of the package in size 5 print along with in size 15 print on the code sheet and sometimes in size 3 print it says go to website for terms condition and expiration date. the information isn't just on the inside on the package but it will give you a migraine trying to read it its so small. The websites you redeem these codes at also normally have terms and conditions which will state you are not to sell or transfer the codes somewhere I assume.

Basically its their in a few places but god is it hard to find.

So going by what you say and picking a random movie I went to Rogue One back cover
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Rogue...u-ray/139135/#
It says:
"This product (including its soundtrack) is authorized for sale in U.S.A. only. This product is authorized for private use only. It is prohibited for any other use and cannot be resold or rented individually. All other rights reserved. Unless expressly authorized in writing by the copyright owner, any copying, exhibition, export, distribution or other use of this product or any part of it is strictly prohibited."

So breaking this down "this product" includes the product as a whole, not just the digital rights. Combined with "cannot be resold" which would mean, according to you, that none of it can be resold. Therefor, F.Y.E., Family Video, eBay, pawn shops, any used bookstore, etc., are all under violation of the law and are subject to litigation. Further, "unless expressly authorized in writing by the copyright owner, any copying, exhibition, export, distribution or other use of this product or any part of it is strictly prohibited.", would indicate that no one is allowed to ship this out of the country unless they have writing from Disney to allow them to do so. Do Zavvi and BluFans have permission to do this? The Disney vault seems to only apply to USA so why would they implement that in one country but still allow other countries to sell their product to us?

I did find this to be interesting from the Movies Anywhere page

[Show spoiler]Digital Copy Code Redemption. You can enter authorized, unexpired, valid, and unused Digital Copy codes from a Digital Copy enabled and Movies Anywhere-eligible physical product that is owned by you in the "Redeem" section of the Movies Anywhere Service. Upon validating the Digital Copy code, an Entitlement for the Movies Anywhere-eligible movie will be included in your My Movies Collection. You will not transfer, sell, or rent (or offer to transfer, sell, or rent) any Digital Copy codes. All Digital Copy codes are owned by Movies Anywhere, its affiliates, Participating Studios and/or other licensors and you may only use Digital Copy codes as specifically authorized under these Movies Anywhere Term of Use and the terms and conditions of the applicable issuer of each Digital Copy code that you use. The sale, distribution, purchase or transfer of Digital Copy codes outside of the methods set forth in such terms and conditions is strictly prohibited.

So I wonder how they differentiate between "I bought the code" and "I bought the disc, redeemed the code, and sold the disc".

[GuyIncognito]

I can't believe I missed this earlier, but to further complicate things what about the following

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

So going by what you say and picking a random movie I went to Rogue One back cover
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Rogue...u-ray/139135/#
It says:
"This product (including its soundtrack) is authorized for sale in U.S.A. only. This product is authorized for private use only. It is prohibited for any other use and cannot be resold or rented individually. All other rights reserved. Unless expressly authorized in writing by the copyright owner, any copying, exhibition, export, distribution or other use of this product or any part of it is strictly prohibited."

Therefor Redbox, Family Video, Netflix (do they still do disc-based subscriptions?), and every library in the country is in violation of the law?

[Destinys Memory]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

Therefore Redbox, Family Video, Netflix (do they still do disc-based subscriptions?), and every library in the country is in violation of the law?

- Netflix has agreements with Disney (that are expiring as Disney moves to their own service).

- Libraries do not charge for "rentals" and are not profiting financially from Disney's movies.

- Family Video is too small to bother with, same for individuals. Doesn't mean in Disney's eyes what they're doing isn't illegal, just not worth pursuing.

It will be up to a court to decide if "It is illegal because we say it is illegal" is actually a legal position.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

So going by what you say and picking a random movie I went to Rogue One back cover

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Rogue...u-ray/139135/#

It says:

"This product (including its soundtrack) is authorized for sale in U.S.A. only. This product is authorized for private use only. It is prohibited for any other use and cannot be resold or rented individually. All other rights reserved. Unless expressly authorized in writing by the copyright owner, any copying, exhibition, export, distribution or other use of this product or any part of it is strictly prohibited."

Which shows how absurd that Disney statement is as it's not enforceable due to the first sale doctrine.

[dublinbluray108]

What are the probable implications, in this case, of someone who already purchased an unauthorized digital copy of a Disney title from Redbox?

Will people, who bought these unauthorized Disney titles, be punished by having them removed instantly from their own accounts from any of the digital providers like iTunes & Google Play etc after this case goes to court?