HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

The more I watch those Televisión Española 4K test channels with test material video of the guard change at Royal Palace, the more I dislike HLG. Color looks unnatural, almost pastel-like and oversaturated next to the great and natural looking PQ broadcast of the same material.

Shouldn’t be quite such a blatant disparity in quality. Even PQ -> HLG conversions - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...c#post13149998 don’t look as bad as you’re experiencing. To be fair to the full potential of the HLG format for live applications, I think something is wrong somewhere resulting in the degree of oversaturation you’ve described.

On a Euro quality control aside note, EBU just added API access to its QC catalog -
https://tech.ebu.ch/news/2017/12/ebu...to-qc-database

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

I don't think anyone knew. It caught a couple members off guard. I didn't find out til after it was over.

Sorry about that. Like with the heads-up 3 days prior to the Technicolor HDR production test in L.A. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post13891012 I was cutting it close for folks to take advantage.

I’ve done better, e.g. a 2+ year advanced heads-up 12-23-2008 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...de#post1432708

before fruition (03-03-2011) - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...st#post4453123

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Just checked out the HLG HDR on Directv, looks great.

One advantage that live sports HDR production has over motion picture content is that with the later sometimes the filmmakers (Director and/or DP) purposely *dumb down* the sharpness and dynamic range of their movies for artistic purposes, thusly not yielding the full potential of the resolution and HDR that otherwise could be attained by the technology and realized in outcome by viewers. I think a major motion picture in theaters right now is an example of that ‘creative’ decision.

Average Joes (as well as some cinephiles for that matter) thrive on image clarity (sharp lenses, no diffusion, etc.) and high contrast (within reason, strive to maximize the HDR). I admit that with all content I tend to side with more detail (resolution, dynamic range) than artsy-fartsy when offered a choice.

[Geoff D]

Would that be a movie whose title rhymes with Car Doors? Interesting, given how much Yedlin has preached about all things image-related lately.

[Penton-Man]

^ Yep.
And not just interesting, but kind of ironic given all the intensive attention in the sermons paid to perceptual differences (or allegedly, lack thereof) between resolutions, and thusly clarity, when you’re going to degrade your movie visually, from what the technology is capable of achieving, anyway.

Reminds me of back in the day when I was bench racing with a group of friends and one fella went on and on for twenty minutes lecturing us that porting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix8PnFj0wY03#t=1s) a 500 cc motocross engine is of absolutely no value because nobody can appreciate the increased horsepower provided by the mod when you’ve already got a rocket ship (stock) to begin with.


After the sermon, to go home (a good 20 miles or more away via local side streets), he got on his usual ride which was similar to these –

Isn't It Time To Feel The Love...It's Genuine - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

The more I watch those Televisión Española 4K test channels with test material video of the guard change at Royal Palace...

eddie, you’re fluent in Spanish, right? Perhaps contact RTVE and try to get some details (pdf, video, etc.) of the BIT workshop - http://catedra.rtve.etsit.upm.es/en/index.html other than the pics in their photo album and mention the experience with your personal home viewing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Would that be a movie whose title rhymes with Car Doors? Interesting, given how much Yedlin has preached about all things image-related lately.

And as far as the dynamic range quality of some of the vfx, NASA - https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1118232643684 might be surprised to learn despite all the tools available these days to producers of tentpole theatrical presentations for Dolby Cinema and its HDR, which I think we all here are fond of , that the filmmakers didn’t choose to make deep interstellar space truly black.

I’d thought that would have been a priority of the filmmakers given the formats strength. As mentioned by fellow member PeterTHX, the prior Star Wars production has shown – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...A#post11646133
that image quality it is quite achievable when there's a will.

[eddievanhalen]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

eddie, you’re fluent in Spanish, right? Perhaps contact RTVE and try to get some details (pdf, video, etc.) of the BIT workshop - http://catedra.rtve.etsit.upm.es/en/index.html other than the pics in their photo album and mention the experience with your personal home viewing.

Why are you asking me if I'm fluent in Spanish? I'm 100% Spanish!!! Born and raised in Spain from a full Spanish family, no less...
I'll try to contact Televisión Española by e-mail and see what kind of info I can get from them and I'll also tell them about my experience watching their 4K test broadcast. Let's see if I get something from them.

[PaulGo]

I watched Star Wars in an upscale theater yesterday night in Real 3D. I guess watching 3D and 4K HDR content at home has spoiled me. I found the viewing at the theater not as good as viewing content at home. In particular the dark areas in the picture at the theater to seemed too light, even the black boarders on the top and bottom of the screen seemed not totally black. It was a digital screen.

[cochon]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

In particular the dark areas in the picture at the theater to seemed too light, even the black boarders on the top and bottom of the screen seemed not totally black. It was a digital screen.

They probably weren't black, you'll find most large venue projectors despite being much more expensive have a lower contrast ratio than good home projectors. That doesn't mean the experience should be inferior but in reality very often it is. I prefer the picture from my projector all the time over what I've been seeing in cinemas because the image there is never sharp and the colors are washed out. The sound is not far from the same description plus that EXIT sign that is always blinding me. What size screen do you project to?

[RockyIII]

Why do so many complain that space scenes in 4K movies like Interstellar, Alien Covenant, and Star Trek are not true black? I thought grey black in space scenes was intentional of director

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And as far as the dynamic range quality of some of the vfx, NASA - https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1118232643684 might be surprised to learn despite all the tools available these days to producers of tentpole theatrical presentations for Dolby Cinema and its HDR, which I think we all here are fond of , that the filmmakers didn’t choose to make deep interstellar space truly black.

I’d thought that would have been a priority of the filmmakers given the formats strength. As mentioned by fellow member PeterTHX, the prior Star Wars production has shown – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...A#post11646133
that image quality it is quite achievable when there's a will.

I really am glad it's not just me who notices these things.

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Why do so many complain that space scenes in 4K movies like Interstellar, Alien Covenant, and Star Trek are not true black? I thought grey black in space scenes was intentional of director

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

It can be 100% intentional, that doesn't mean we have to like it. IMO space should always be black, letterbox black, not the milky grey filth that filmmakers are so enamoured with of late. It's like contrast has become a dirty word in cinematography circles and I can't for the life of me understand why. Or worse, the cinematographers would also prefer to go for a more contrasty look but the directors are the ones pushing for this appearance that's so low contrast it's almost like looking at raw footage at times.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

Why are you asking me if I'm fluent in Spanish? I'm 100% Spanish!!! Born and raised in Spain from a full Spanish family, no less...

I wasn’t sure because your English is so good and I was thinking if they ended up sending you any material from their workshop at BIT Experience, it might come in Spanish and you could easily do the proper translation, whereas many of the rest of us (including me) would flounder a bit understanding it, especially video clips, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8LJ3TDQI2k#t=1s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I watched Star Wars in an upscale theater yesterday night in Real 3D. I guess watching 3D and 4K HDR content at home has spoiled me. I found the viewing at the theater not as good as viewing content at home. In particular the dark areas in the picture at the theater to seemed too light, even the black boarders on the top and bottom of the screen seemed not totally black. It was a digital screen.

Paul, things could be worse. It’s good you travel in a mature crowd; otherwise, it can get medieval out there –

Madness at the AMC 16 - YouTube

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And as far as the dynamic range quality of some of the vfx, NASA - https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1118232643684 might be surprised to learn despite all the tools available these days to producers of tentpole theatrical presentations for Dolby Cinema and its HDR, which I think we all here are fond of , that the filmmakers didn’t choose to make deep interstellar space truly black.

I’d thought that would have been a priority of the filmmakers given the formats strength. As mentioned by fellow member PeterTHX, the prior Star Wars production has shown – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...A#post11646133
that image quality it is quite achievable when there's a will.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I really am glad it's not just me who notices these things.


It can be 100% intentional, that doesn't mean we have to like it. IMO space should always be black, letterbox black, not the milky grey filth that filmmakers are so enamoured with of late. It's like contrast has become a dirty word in cinematography circles and I can't for the life of me understand why. Or worse, the cinematographers would also prefer to go for a more contrasty look but the directors are the ones pushing for this appearance that's so low contrast it's almost like looking at raw footage at times.

Saw The Last Jedi in the same theater I saw The Force Awakens and was disappointed the space scenes of the new film (starting at the main title) didn't have the same rich black level of TFA - not to mention the use of the Atmos overheads seemed to be restrained and limited to certain effects, like Force users communicating to each other over telepathically.

[eddievanhalen]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I wasn’t sure because your English is so good and I was thinking if they ended up sending you any material from their workshop at BIT Experience, it might come in Spanish and you could easily do the proper translation, whereas many of the rest of us (including me) would flounder a bit understanding it, especially video clips, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8LJ3TDQI2k#t=1s

Thanks for your compliments but it's not as good as I'd like it to be, plenty of room for improvement. But keeping in mind I never touched an English grammar book in my life, not even on High School. I rather watch Star Trek The Next Generation on Sky One at home. That's how I learned, watching movies and T.V. series in English. Sometimes I regret of this as English has only brought me trouble on my jobs. All the English customers to me, as well as Spanish, all the claims and complains from English customers went to me, I then changed of job to be a security officer (I worked as a tour guide before) and I was sent to a very wealthy American man in Marbella, 60 Km. away from home. It was plenty of work, very very stressing and now money for gas while the rest of my collegues worked 5 to 10 Km. away from their homes on far quieter places, and you know what? Not extra money for all the hard work and being bilingual!!! Spanish bosses and company owners or directors are MEAN.
Speaking a foreign languaje should be a plus job wise, it's not in Spain.

[ray0414]

Is a new HDR beast on the way?

Vincent Teoh posted this today, when repeating the news that the Dolby Vision update by Sony is coming in January, to the X1E tvs as well as this "beast". He did not divulge what tv this beast was.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Saw The Last Jedi in the same theater I saw The Force Awakens and was disappointed the space scenes of the new film (starting at the main title) didn't have the same rich black level of TFA - not to mention the use of the Atmos overheads seemed to be restrained and limited to certain effects, like Force users communicating to each other over telepathically.

Either thru ignorance or dismissal of what is attainable with the technology, I view SW TLJ as a missed opportunity. And apologists can’t blame it on deadlines either as “we finished it awhile ago…” - https://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...ke-death#t=20s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

....Speaking a foreign languaje should be a plus job wise, it's not in Spain.

Well, hang in there.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Is a new HDR beast on the way?

Sooner or later, it’s the nature of the business -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_ZEIgQC-0#t=47m26s