Why is UHD BD so fragile?

[kristoffer]

Why is that UHD BD is so much more fragile than BD? I have almost never seen a scratch on a regular BD. Are UHD BDs using a different coating?

A lot of people are reporting skipping / freezing problems with various discs with various hardware. Is UHD BD designed poorly?

[AnimeNut]

I haven't had any issues so far but then again my collection is still pretty small. However the format is new, the players will probably get better with time.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Why is that UHD BD is so much more fragile than BD? I have almost never seen a scratch on a regular BD. Are UHD BDs using a different coating?

A lot of people are reporting skipping / freezing problems with various discs with various hardware. Is UHD BD designed poorly?

I've seen several scratches on BD in my time, some affecting playback (I had to send back several discs in my Harry Potter Wizards Collection due to them being received with scratches), so it's something of a myth that they're virtually "scratch proof". UHD isn't using a different coating AFAIK but that in itself may be part of the issue because more data packed onto the disc being read at a faster speed equals less tolerance for read errors, ergo a redesigned protective layer wouldn't have been a bad idea. Hopefully the optical pickups will be refined over time to improve error correction but it's not a magic bullet, you've still got to have a pristine disc to work with.

This is exactly why pressed QL 128GB media would never have gotten off the ground, even if they could get the yields up the discs would be so error-prone in real world usage that it's just not worth it. So if we are to get another disc format after this then it won't be an extension of the BD spec like UHD was, it'll have to be a brand new piece of tech. And I can't see anyone bothering to design a new robust high capacity format for what will be a niche of a niche of a niche, but that's just me.

[gkolb]

I think crappy packaging, e.g. stacking discs or poor handling in the factory while putting discs in the cases has to be part of the problem. And of course, who can forget The Mummy's packaging debacle.

[AnimeNut]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I think crappy packaging, e.g. stacking discs or poor handling in the factory while putting discs in the cases has to be part of the problem. And of course, who can forget The Mummy's packaging debacle.

The only grievous offense for me is when the disc comes out of its place in the packaging and gets all scratched up before you get it. Had that happen on a fair share of regular blurays I ordered.

[PaulGo]

I thought the Blu-rays have a protective coating that prevents these scratch problems. On the UHD Blu-rays, I believe the manufactures are still perfecting higher density an the three layer process, the quality will get better over time.

[Geoff D]

They do, but it's not invincible and never has been. With more data comes more responsibility

[Bolty]

My STID and T2 discs both froze and I looked and saw nothing but cleaned them anyway and then both played fine. So I would tend to agree that there is less tolerance for any kind of dirt or smudge -- even if it's invisible to the naked eye.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by AnimeNut

The only grievous offense for me is when the disc comes out of its place in the packaging and gets all scratched up before you get it. Had that happen on a fair share of regular blurays I ordered.

Yes, I agree floaters are very annoying, but so far none of the one's I've received have had playback issues.

[Zoland2020]

It's not the discs that are the problem, I think it's more of a UHD Blu-ray player problem.
Maybe when they come out with better UHD players this year, we should see less freezing and skipping problems.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Zoland2020

It's not the discs that are the problem, I think it's more of a UHD Blu-ray player problem.
Maybe when they come out with better UHD players this year, we should see less freezing and skipping problems.

Your forgetting about the branching/copy protection involved with UHD discs.

[mar3o]

My Stranger Things UHD discs have several scuffs and scratches on them right out of the case. They are stored in a special cardboard case with a very strange Styrofoam-type hub and a partially-stacked off-center storage setup.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I thought the Blu-rays have a protective coating that prevents these scratch problems. On the UHD Blu-rays, I believe the manufactures are still perfecting higher density an the three layer process, the quality will get better over time.

The protective coating doesn't prevent scratches though. It helps but it's not scratch-proof, it's scratch-resistant. Poor storage (cardboard sleeves/stacked discs) or floaters (broken off the hub and rattling around in transit) can and will damage the discs. It's hit or miss. I've seen discs in standard cases have scratches right out of the case, and I've seen floaters with zero scuffing or scratches.

[PaulGo]

Why on some UHD discs are there playability problems? Is due to work out the kinks in the manufacturing process and / or hardware problems in the UHD Blu-ray players?

Originally Posted by 2themax

I put more of the blame on the manufacturing process and that will improve over time.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Why on some UHD discs are there playability problems? Is due to work out the kinks in the manufacturing process and / or hardware problems in the UHD Blu-ray players?

My assumption would be laser calibration data and other minutiae. Triple-layer discs in particular are very problematic. I have multiple drives for my HTPC. (Long story.) Only one is able to consistently read any triple-layer discs I throw at it, and it's a portable drive from Japan. Everything else is very inconsistent, running the entire gamut.

- Read the disc just fine? Check.
- Acknowledge the disc but choke at certain points, or even when trying to access the disc? Check.
- Refuse to even acknowledge that the disc exists despite the drive making hideous noises? Check.

[mar3o]

If triple-layer UHD discs are going to be this much of an issue with players, they never should have included them as part of the spec. Playback issues are a great way to scare people away from a format. Now when I'm looking at buying UHD discs or combos with UHD discs, I guess I have to follow the threads to see if it's a triple-layer disc, and if it is, maybe think twice about it. And I don't even own a player yet.

[danny24]

They are Blu-ray's still, as far as I know I don't see why they would become more fragile or more prone to scratches like DVD's. The triple-layer UHD's concern me because that could cause skipping and freezing in certain disc players. Only 4K UHD discs I have had a problem with so far are The Mummy discs because of the packaging, those got some scuffs, scratches on them. Pretty bad packaging idea with that release.

[Tns49]

So far none of my UHD BR have been "fragile". I did have to clean one (john Wick 2) to make it play correctly.

Obviously the increased amout of data on the disk can be effected by scratches and dirt.

[LordoftheRings]

Bad CDs, bad DVDs, bad HD DVDs, bad LPs, bad Tapes, ... yes I've see things you ...

Blu-rays, very very few bad ones.
UHD Blu-rays, more bad ones than regular Blus.

Picture quality and sound quality are going up, playback quality is going in reverse.
Some lasers die too quickly, some transports too, light plastic players don't help, HDMI is still the devil from infernal hell, quality control has taken the ditch.

Eventually there won't be a disc issue anymore, it will be strictly a streaming issue.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've seen several scratches on BD in my time, some affecting playback (I had to send back several discs in my Harry Potter Wizards Collection due to them being received with scratches), so it's something of a myth that they're virtually "scratch proof". UHD isn't using a different coating AFAIK but that in itself may be part of the issue because more data packed onto the disc being read at a faster speed equals less tolerance for read errors, ergo a redesigned protective layer wouldn't have been a bad idea. Hopefully the optical pickups will be refined over time to improve error correction but it's not a magic bullet, you've still got to have a pristine disc to work with.

This is exactly why pressed QL 128GB media would never have gotten off the ground, even if they could get the yields up the discs would be so error-prone in real world usage that it's just not worth it. So if we are to get another disc format after this then it won't be an extension of the BD spec like UHD was, it'll have to be a brand new piece of tech. And I can't see anyone bothering to design a new robust high capacity format for what will be a niche of a niche of a niche, but that's just me.

We have few BD-100 (100GB discs with three layers), which is challenging for some players not fully optimized or with quality control issues, etc. Even the discs are not glued together with the right amount of glue and the edges are rough, like the teeth of a chainsaw.

If we are going to go further in the future with BD-200 and BD-500 and BD-1000 ... multiple rainbow layers, for 8K, 16K and 32K, we need quality glue, stitches and laser readers of ultra high caliber able to read below ten layers surface.

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holo...Versatile_Disc

It might not happen tomorrow but it will happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ny...ature=youtu.be