Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know I fell short of a couple of Decades, but I know it was a long time. As for the Rips being the same Disc Like Quality on a Local Server, I'm sure most would agree. My main point is that those same Files that are read from a Disc are Streamed to your TV the same way as from a Server, Local or otherwise. Streams and Codec are always improving, and Streaming Providers that last will give you that Disc Like Quality.

But that begs the question, why not just pop a disc in? Why go around the long route when you have better AV quality available. I can understand some people are just not bothered as long as it’s HD but for those who crave quality (I know you do) why the heck deprive yourself?

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by veritas

So do iTunes or vudu use h.265 video encodes yet? Or some other high efficiency encoder? If they used a high efficiency encoder on 4k uhd streams that would make them a lot more competitive when you account for that in mb/s.

Pretty sure no provider is streaming UHD with H.264/AVC. They're H.264/HEVC.

It would be great if they started offering 1080p HEVC streams. I'd love to see my current collection of HD content get a quality bump. (Don't bother if they're going to use the opportunity to lower the bitrate from current AVC streams.)

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s normally darker scenes in my experience that trips up Digital. Also rapid camera pans or movement. Bright scenes always fared quite well on my Itunes rentals. I know the 4K titles have a much higher bitrate but I can imagine that’s still the case.

With lower bitrate 1080p streams, those scenes have potential for banding or blockiness. HEVC should help in conjunction with the higher bitrate. Anyone know of some challenging scenes for UHD streaming? I'd like to see for myself if iTunes falls down during them.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But that begs the question, why not just pop a disc in? Why go around the long route when you have better AV quality available. I can understand some people are just not bothered as long as it’s HD but for those who crave quality (I know you do) why the heck deprive yourself?

I don't think anyone is "depriving" themselves with a UHD stream. The audio could be more dynamic but if you're listening through your TV speakers it probably doesn't matter.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But that begs the question, why not just pop a disc in? Why go around the long route when you have better AV quality available. I can understand some people are just not bothered as long as it’s HD but for those who crave quality (I know you do) why the heck deprive yourself?

Because I really can't tell the difference, and I can watch the latest releases before they come out on Disc. Right now the prices are also very competitive with all the UV Stores. I don't think this will last, because buying Digital from Providers is still close to Disc prices. Buying Combo Packs are not working out either, people are not buying Discs anymore they only want to pay a few bucks for them.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Because I really can't tell the difference, and I can watch the latest releases before they come out on Disc. Right now the prices are also very competitive with all the UV Stores. I don't think this will last, because buying Digital from Providers is still close to Disc prices. Buying Combo Packs are not working out either, people are not buying Discs anymore they only want to pay a few bucks for them.

Well, 4.7 billion suggests people are still buying discs. Let’s not make blanket statements.

[The_Donster]

Same old argument, different thread Streaming is the new cable. So much goes into what type of experience you have: Internet speed, components and apps capabilities, etc. While I prefer physical I don't feel the need to rebuy every movie over and over again. So I rent BD's from Netflix, stream or redeem a digital codes on movies that don't deserve a permanent slot in my home library.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Same old argument, different thread Streaming is the new cable. So much goes into what type of experience you have: Internet speed, components and apps capabilities, etc. While I prefer physical I don't feel the need to rebuy every movie over and over again. So I rent BD's from Netflix, stream or redeem a digital codes on movies that don't deserve a permanent slot in my home library.

Not really. Both Amazon and Netflix are buying up movies that are not seeing a Blu-ray release because Of exclusive rights. That is a very different situation to cable decades ago. Hush is one example, Gerald’s Game is another. It is rumoured that the next Cloverfield will be exclusive to Netflix meaning us disc collectors can’t add to our previous two films. Sorry, not buying it. This situation is very different.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Not really. Both Amazon and Netflix are buying up movies that are not seeing a Blu-ray release because Of exclusive rights. That is a very different situation to cable decades ago. Hush is one example, Gerald’s Game is another. It is rumoured that the next Cloverfield will be exclusive to Netflix meaning us disc collectors can’t add to our previous two films. Sorry, not buying it. This situation is very different.

Dude, unless you are living here in the states you are relying on second hand news for your information, your experience and you are missing my point. Streaming, like cable, is said to compress. Although I feel my streaming looks a lot cleaner to what I see on my cable. However, if you are looking for a better picture, physical media is the way to go. But as I said in my previous post, I'm just getting too old to be constantly buying and rebuying the same movie every time a new physical format evolves. Which is why I use both.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know I fell short of a couple of Decades, but I know it was a long time. As for the Rips being the same Disc Like Quality on a Local Server, I'm sure most would agree. My main point is that those same Files that are read from a Disc are Streamed to your TV the same way as from a Server, Local or otherwise. Streams and Codec are always improving, and Streaming Providers that last will give you that Disc Like Quality.

As I said earlier, you're just treading water. Repeating the same stuff over and over again, seemingly without even reading the posts you're responding to.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

HEVC should help in conjunction with the higher bitrate.

It would, but, again, there's four times the amount of pixels plus deeper colours and HDR. Relatively, UHD is compressed harder than 1080p, both on disc and probably digital.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Naiera

It would, but, again, there's four times the amount of pixels plus deeper colours and HDR. Relatively, UHD is compressed harder than 1080p, both on disc and probably digital.

It's not about pixels, it's about picture information. If you take a frame from a 1080p Blu-ray and blow it up four times to 2160p you haven't lost any picture information; it will look the same. Compression is about reducing the bits required to represent the picture information, not the pixels themselves.

So let's say that HEVC is 1.67x as efficient as AVC. That means a 25Mbps HEVC stream contains about the equivalent picture information as a 42Mbps AVC stream. There shouldn't be complaints about banding or blocking at that bitrate, which well exceeds the average Blu-ray today. Now blow the picture up to 2160p and it will look no worse because it has the same amount of picture info. With no additional artifacts. But since this is HEVC, they've actually reduced the opportunities for artifacts with algorithm changes.

It's my understanding that HDR+WCG needs about 20% more bits beyond the standard bitrate. So if you've got a 35Mbps bitstream you'd need 42Mbps to include HDR+WCG. 35Mbps of AVC picture info is still above most Blu-rays today. That's why you can look at an iTunes UHD stream and it looks better than a Blu-ray: It's got HDR and still contains more picture info than a Blu-ray. Even if the stream is not making the best use of each possible pixel on a 4K display. Every bit above that will only improve the picture beyond Blu-ray, even if it can't match 4K Blu-rays today.

Anyway, that's why I said HEVC should help in conjunction with the higher bitrate.

4K Blu-rays seem to use anywhere between 35Mbps to 75Mbps HEVC. That's 1.4-3.0 times as much picture info as an iTunes UHD stream. It's going to make better use of each pixel and you're going to see an improvement although how much of an improvement depends on the viewer and the equipment. Also streaming is generally a constant bitrate whereas Blu-ray has the benefit of being able to burst higher when the scene requires it.

[StaticVic]

This may or may not have been mentioned already but I feel there's a simple solution to all of this. Well not really a solution but more of a temporary fix until streaming services can provide the proper bitrate. What I do is i have all my UHD and BD movies on a 4TB hard drive that's plugged into my Nvidia Shield TV and i just stream/play the REMUX files right from that. And there you have it, Disc picture quality without needing to get up and change the disc every time i want to watch a different movie.

[bladerunner1]

My favorite thing about streaming is the ability to throw together a blast of greatest hits when I don't have the time to watch entire movies. It's obviously super fast and very easy to do that.

As far as quality goes it's good enough (pretty great actually/could probably be fooled a few times during A/B), on my monitors, viewing distance, old eyes etc.

I also like having a bunch of movies in my pocket and sharing with my family.

However when i'm settled in i will never hesitate to grab the disc first if I have it.

Conclusion: BOTH options are fantastic.

[StaticVic]

just want to say thanks guys I learned so much from reading all of your comments going back and forth at each others necks lol.
to think before all this i thought it was only Netflix that provided shitty bitrate to us.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by bladerunner1

My favorite thing about streaming is the ability to throw together a blast of greatest hits when I don't have the time to watch entire movies. It's obviously super fast and very easy to do that.

As far as quality goes it's good enough (pretty great actually/could probably be fooled a few times during A/B), on my monitors, viewing distance, old eyes etc.

I also like having a bunch of movies in my pocket and sharing with my family.

However when i'm settled in i will never hesitate to grab the disc first if I have it.

Conclusion: BOTH options are fantastic.

What does this even mean?

[ctujackbauer]

Originally Posted by flyry

What does this even mean?

Fast forwarding and playing the parts of a movie that he likes the most? I do the same.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by ctujackbauer

Fast forwarding and playing the parts of a movie that he likes the most? I do the same.

So do I, but I also have different Movies I watch a little at a time till I finish over several days. Like Series or the Cliff Hangers of the past.

[StaticVic]

for example I just played my Blade Runner 2049 4k Remux file and watched the scene at the beginning with Dave Bautista then fast forwarded to the Happy Anniversary scene with Gosling and Joi. Loved the chemistry between them. Such a fantastic movie. if you haven't seen it yet I highly recommend it

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by StaticVic

for example I just played my Blade Runner 2049 4k Remux file and watched the scene at the beginning with Dave Bautista then fast forwarded to the Happy Anniversary scene with Gosling and Joi. Loved the chemistry between them. Such a fantastic movie. if you haven't seen it yet I highly recommend it

With Vudu you don't have to fast forward, they break it down into Scenes, you can forward to the Scene that you want.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Places have had data caps for years and streaming bitrates have gone up. History's already proven you wrong, but sure, maybe everything will go backwards in the next 5 years.

Also, most places with caps have seen the caps go up as more people use data. And those places often have options to remove the cap entirely.



Nope, it's not blurry. And it runs about 21-22Mbps compared to the 4K Blu-ray which runs about 50Mbps.

What you are ignoring is the coming rise of 5G mobile broadband. The trend will be to offer mobile and home 5G in one package for (perceiveably) less money. Several companies are planning this route as a direct competitor to FTTC. Now from what I understand, fixed mobile broadband doesn’t have the latency or reliability to match fibre even when 5G is established but I don’t think it matters. I think most people will be happy just to watch in HD or even SD. They may even be happy to simply cast a few shows or films to their TV set every now and again. Mobile operators want their customers tied in to a complete package. They want to challenge the big guns home broadband delivery. As we know, the mainstream don’t give a chuff about quality, so 4K may be off the table altogether come 2022 when 5G will have more of a foothold. We are moving towards a mobile world and big screen content will just be a occasional afterthought (or luxury if you only on a mobile broadband allowance of say, 150 GB a month.
Also, the interest in GB fibre has cooled off.

[trespoochies]

Originally Posted by ctujackbauer

Fast forwarding and playing the parts of a movie that he likes the most? I do the same.

Same here. Best done with DCU movies.