Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[zodwriter]

I plan to purchase the theatrical release because I want the Snyder cut! I don't think boycotting the theatrical cut helps the cause at all. WB is motivated by profit and if the theatrical cut has horribly low sales on video, it could signal to WB that nobody cares about Justice League altogether and ruin any future releases. By purchasing the theatrical cut fans are showing support for Justice League as a property and therefore justifying Zack Snyder's cut because it gives WB confidence that said property will continue to generate more profit for the studio. Then WB could always say we listened to the fans and are giving them what they want. The Snyder cut get's this monumental celebratory release with all the bells and whistles. Now of course that's wishful thinking on my part and if JL does poorly on video the first time around, maybe it will take 20 or more years to get the Snyder Cut? Any way we look at it, I believe Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League is inevitable!

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I plan to purchase the theatrical release because I want the Snyder cut! I don't think boycotting the theatrical cut helps the cause at all.

Just to be clear, I'm not boycotting. I'm just at a point where I'm being more selective about what I purchase, especially in regard to comic book movies, of which I've bought many. I saw the film twice, and that's enough for me. I refuse to spend any more money on something I didn't really like.

[meatball_84]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

This is exactly what it's all about. Waiting years for a Justice League movie and feeling in our heart of hearts that Zack Snyder was going to deliver the movie we all always wanted to see, only to have it snatched away by greedy suits with a joke fetish and a run-time complex. Point is if WB would have left Zack Snyder alone, this discussion wouldn't be happening! The passion behind getting WB to release the Snyder Cut is ignited more and more by the fact that Justice League was such a colossal disappointment. It says a lot when the dominating topic about a movie's home video release is an alternative cut nobody has ever seen.

I think the key factor to whether or not we get the Snyder Cut is cost. We obviously do not actually know how close to completion it is. There would be a higher than normal cost associated with finishing it. They may ask Snyder to pay for part of it. That is why I have thrown out the idea of crowd funding. If WB really wants to know how bad the fans want it, that would show them. If the fans raise $10 million and the cost to finish is $20 million, then it probably makes sense. But if the cost to finish is $50 million, then it may just not make sense to them.

More information will come out in the next month or so and I think we will get a clearer image on where his cut is.

Hell, it would be interesting to see what would happen if they released the footage as open source and allowed the fans to finish it. There are some really talented fans out there that could probably do a better job from home than some of the effects from the theatrical release.

[zodwriter]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUz4Zw6W4AAlb-b.jpg

Gee look at that run-time!

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by meatball_84

I think the key factor to whether or not we get the Snyder Cut is cost. We obviously do not actually know how close to completion it is. There would be a higher than normal cost associated with finishing it. They may ask Snyder to pay for part of it. That is why I have thrown out the idea of crowd funding. If WB really wants to know how bad the fans want it, that would show them. If the fans raise $10 million and the cost to finish is $20 million, then it probably makes sense. But if the cost to finish is $50 million, then it may just not make sense to them.

More information will come out in the next month or so and I think we will get a clearer image on where his cut is.

Hell, it would be interesting to see what would happen if they released the footage as open source and allowed the fans to finish it. There are some really talented fans out there that could probably do a better job from home than some of the effects from the theatrical release.

It always comes down to cost, and that can change plans. For instance, originally the Rogue scenes in Days of Future Past were just going to be included in unfinished deleted scene from. But with the big financial success of the film, Fox then agreed to spend money on a proper extended cut, including on the effects work that was the main sticking point. On the other hand, even while it's always good to never say never, I think you can forget about them ever spending money on finishing a Trank cut of Fantastic Four.

Justice League's box office definitely does not help the chances for a Snyder Cut release as I'm sure WB is wary about sinking more money into the film right now. But assuming the cost on VFX and other post production needed isn't prohibitively expensive, and it does well on home release and a fan request for a Snyder Cut endures beyond just the initial home release wave, I can see it happening down the line.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

It always comes down to cost, and that can change plans. For instance, originally the Rogue scenes in Days of Future Past were just going to be included in unfinished deleted scene from. But with the big financial success of the film, Fox then agreed to spend money on a proper extended cut, including on the effects work that was the main sticking point. On the other hand, even while it's always good to never say never, I think you can forget about them ever spending money on finishing a Trank cut of Fantastic Four.

Justice League's box office definitely does not help the chances for a Snyder Cut release as I'm sure WB is wary about sinking more money into the film right now. But assuming the cost on VFX and other post production needed isn't prohibitively expensive, and it does well on home release and a fan request for a Snyder Cut endures beyond just the initial home release wave, I can see it happening down the line.

Just some thoughts and notes on this

Spider-Man 2 got an extended cut due to the film being a massive box office success.

We got an alternate cut of Spider-Man 3 a decade later, after years of fans asking for one. While people may be divided on if the new cut is actually better or not, Sony did eventually listen. However, Spider-Man 3 is, to date, the highest grossing Spider-Man film yet and the cut came after the second Spider-Man reboot since Spider-Man 3's release. So well after the point where it would have had any PR problems (they didn't even promote it).

X-Men: Days of Future Past performed above all box office expectations and doubled what First Class did (First Class barely scratched $350 million worldwide). To date, it's the second highest grossing film in the franchise following Deadpool and managed to triple it's budget.

Daredevil and Ghost Rider got extended cuts but their deleted scenes were due to the studio wanting a PG-13 rating (the extended cuts would be rated R) and were cut extremely late in production (and thus were already finished).

The Wolverine got an extended cut with similar reasons (edits late in production to ensure a PG-13 rating). The film also performed very well at the box office, managing to triple it's budget.

Green Lantern's extended cut restored scenes that were already finished and cut late in production.

According to rumours, Disney were apparently considering an extended cut of The Avengers (with a cinema re-release in August 2012) but changed their minds.

There's a running theme here; superhero movies that got extended cuts were either big box office successes, so the studio was more willing to pay to finish cut scenes, or restored scenes that were cut late in post production and were already finished.

Justice League barely doubled it's estimated $300 million production budget and is, to date, the lowest grossing DCEU movie. Most of the cut sequences were cut well before they could be finished. If we get an extended cut of Justice League, it'll be an extended cut of the theatrical cut adding in sequences that were already finished (most likely ones cut late on to meet WB's 2 hour mandate).

There's no financial incentive for WB to finish any unfinished cut scenes. The fans clamouring for a Snyder cut don't realise they make up an incredibly small percentage of the movie's total audience; a percentage hardly worth catering to specifically (at an estimate I'd say they make up less than 10% of the total possible audience for a Justice League film). The average Joe or Jane probably doesn't know or care who Zack Snyder is and certainly wouldn't care about his cut of Justice League getting released. A hastily assembled extended cut would not only be cheaper to make but have the same effect on the general audience as a finished Snyder cut would; they know Justice League was bad but hey here's an extended cut maybe it makes it better.

There is no financial incentive to finish a Snyder cut (if one exists) when an extended Whedon cut will sell just as well and be much cheaper to make. WB want to make as much money off Justice League as they can without spending any more money on it.An extended cut where the new scenes are already finished ones cut very late in post-production is the most likely avenue here.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Just some thoughts and notes on this

Spider-Man 2 got an extended cut due to the film being a massive box office success.

We got an alternate cut of Spider-Man 3 a decade later, after years of fans asking for one. While people may be divided on if the new cut is actually better or not, Sony did eventually listen. However, Spider-Man 3 is, to date, the highest grossing Spider-Man film yet and the cut came after the second Spider-Man reboot since Spider-Man 3's release. So well after the point where it would have had any PR problems (they didn't even promote it).

X-Men: Days of Future Past performed above all box office expectations and doubled what First Class did (First Class barely scratched $350 million worldwide). To date, it's the second highest grossing film in the franchise following Deadpool and managed to triple it's budget.

Daredevil and Ghost Rider got extended cuts but their deleted scenes were due to the studio wanting a PG-13 rating (the extended cuts would be rated R) and were cut extremely late in production (and thus were already finished).

The Wolverine got an extended cut with similar reasons (edits late in production to ensure a PG-13 rating). The film also performed very well at the box office, managing to triple it's budget.

Green Lantern's extended cut restored scenes that were already finished and cut late in production.

According to rumours, Disney were apparently considering an extended cut of The Avengers (with a cinema re-release in August 2012) but changed their minds.

There's a running theme here; superhero movies that got extended cuts were either big box office successes, so the studio was more willing to pay to finish cut scenes, or restored scenes that were cut late in post production and were already finished.

Justice League barely doubled it's estimated $300 million production budget and is, to date, the lowest grossing DCEU movie. Most of the cut sequences were cut well before they could be finished. If we get an extended cut of Justice League, it'll be an extended cut of the theatrical cut adding in sequences that were already finished (most likely ones cut late on to meet WB's 2 hour mandate).

There's no financial incentive for WB to finish any unfinished cut scenes. The fans clamouring for a Snyder cut don't realise they make up an incredibly small percentage of the movie's total audience; a percentage hardly worth catering to specifically (at an estimate I'd say they make up less than 10% of the total possible audience for a Justice League film). The average Joe or Jane probably doesn't know or care who Zack Snyder is and certainly wouldn't care about his cut of Justice League getting released. A hastily assembled extended cut would not only be cheaper to make but have the same effect on the general audience as a finished Snyder cut would; they know Justice League was bad but hey here's an extended cut maybe it makes it better.

There is no financial incentive to finish a Snyder cut (if one exists) when an extended Whedon cut will sell just as well and be much cheaper to make. WB want to make as much money off Justice League as they can without spending any more money on it.An extended cut where the new scenes are already finished ones cut very late in post-production is the most likely avenue here.

The Snyder Cut is a different situation from any of the examples you mentioned above. It's almost a completely different film from the one released in theaters. I would compare The Snyder Cut of Justice League to Kingdom of Heaven. That movie had poor reviews and did terrible at the box office, and got it's superior almost completely different version released on video to the delight of a small percentage (likely much smaller than those of us clamoring for Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League) Your continued adamant claims that The Snyder cut is not complete enough to possibly get released get less and less convincing by the day, especially when more evidence continues to mount suggesting Snyder's cut was very close to completion. We now have several examples of Snyder himself supporting the campaign to get his director's cut released, as well as rumors that WB is in the process of mending fences with Snyder over the theatrical cut. So the logical conclusion would be that even if a Snyder cut is not ready for release tomorrow it could very well be in the process of being completed. If Zack Snyder knows he doesn't have a full cut of Justice League he wouldn't be misleading the fan-base. Support from Zack Snyder goes a long way to deflate the theories that a Snyder cut is non-existent! As far as the financial end of the argument goes, if there is enough footage of Snyder's in the can, it's not going to cost WB anymore than it would to release an extended Whedon cut. Not only that Zack Snyder did submit his request for his directors cut, so that means he and his editor would likely be brought back if they were needed to complete the cut for release. Directors Guild rules stipulate that WB would have to pay for that anyway, barring any re-shoots or heavy VFX work.

[Indy64]

[zodwriter]

Beating a dead horse that is being reported on almost daily? I guess there is some life left in the horse afterall!

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

The Snyder Cut is a different situation from any of the examples you mentioned above. It's almost a completely different film from the one released in theaters. I would compare The Snyder Cut of Justice League to Kingdom of Heaven. That movie had poor reviews and did terrible at the box office, and got it's superior almost completely different version released on video to the delight of a small percentage (likely much smaller than those of us clamoring for Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League) Your continued adamant claims that The Snyder cut is not complete enough to possibly get released get less and less convincing by the day, especially when more evidence continues to mount suggesting Snyder's cut was very close to completion. We now have several examples of Snyder himself supporting the campaign to get his director's cut released, as well as rumors that WB is in the process of mending fences with Snyder over the theatrical cut. So the logical conclusion would be that even if a Snyder cut is not ready for release tomorrow it could very well be in the process of being completed. If Zack Snyder knows he doesn't have a full cut of Justice League he wouldn't be misleading the fan-base. Support from Zack Snyder goes a long way to deflate the theories that a Snyder cut is non-existent! As far as the financial end of the argument goes, if there is enough footage of Snyder's in the can, it's not going to cost WB anymore than it would to release an extended Whedon cut. Not only that Zack Snyder did submit his request for his directors cut, so that means he and his editor would likely be brought back if they were needed to complete the cut for release. Directors Guild rules stipulate that WB would have to pay for that anyway, barring any re-shoots or heavy VFX work.

the same goes for Oliver Stone's "Alexander" - that movie had what? three different cuts - the 'Final' cut being the best. 'Gods and Generals' a movie which was horrid in theatrical cut form, the extended cut was amazing.

Warner's really does a giant disservice to the DCU movies, notably this one and 'Suicide Squad' where the filmmaking by committee and in house studio editing undermines it's directors

[The Dark Shape]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUz4Zw6W4AAlb-b.jpg

Gee look at that run-time!

Timecode starts at 01:00:00:00. This would be 69 minutes into the cut.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by The Dark Shape

Timecode starts at 01:00:00:00. This would be 69 minutes into the cut.

02:09:40:16 which literally places that scene over 9 mins after the theatrical cut has already ended.

[Sabre95]

Can someone explain to me why a director who's sub par movies that have hurt the DCEU is getting such praise from some of you guys? In all honesty Man of Steel was good, BvS was "what is going on?" and now Justice League was just completely underwhelming.

I'm going to watch these films but any time I hear Zack Snyder being attached to a project in the DCEU I just expect mediocrity now.

[The Dark Shape]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

02:09:40:16 which literally places that scene over 9 mins after the theatrical cut has already ended.

Again, timecode starts at 01:00:00:00. I'm an editor who's spent years working in post, so I deal with TC a lot. The film would hit the one hour mark at 02:00:00:00. It's Hours:Minutes:Seconds:Frames, and begins in the first hour, so it can't start at 00.

[EbonDragon]

Originally Posted by Sabre95

Can someone explain to me why a director who's sub par movies that have hurt the DCEU is getting such praise from some of you guys? In all honesty Man of Steel was good, BvS was "what is going on?" and now Justice League was just completely underwhelming.

I'm going to watch these films but any time I hear Zack Snyder being attached to a project in the DCEU I just expect mediocrity now.

He was attached to Wonder Woman, it’s sequel and Aquaman.

His directing can be polarizing and some of his decisions don’t land quite well, but he’s got fans. I’m sure you’re a fan of some movies that others find sub par.

[Sabre95]

Originally Posted by EbonDragon

He was attached to Wonder Woman, it’s sequel and Aquaman.

His directing can be polarizing and some of his decisions don’t land quite well, but he’s got fans. I’m sure you’re a fan of some movies that others find sub par.

And there's my problem with Zack Snyder. He helped produce and write a fun story in Wonder Woman but everything else he's done in the DCEU has just been average. I don't get the praise.

I'll say the only movie I can think of that I'm a big fan of that people think is sub par is The Incredible Hulk lol.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

The Snyder Cut is a different situation from any of the examples you mentioned above. It's almost a completely different film from the one released in theaters. I would compare The Snyder Cut of Justice League to Kingdom of Heaven. That movie had poor reviews and did terrible at the box office, and got it's superior almost completely different version released on video to the delight of a small percentage (likely much smaller than those of us clamoring for Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League) Your continued adamant claims that The Snyder cut is not complete enough to possibly get released get less and less convincing by the day, especially when more evidence continues to mount suggesting Snyder's cut was very close to completion. We now have several examples of Snyder himself supporting the campaign to get his director's cut released, as well as rumors that WB is in the process of mending fences with Snyder over the theatrical cut. So the logical conclusion would be that even if a Snyder cut is not ready for release tomorrow it could very well be in the process of being completed. If Zack Snyder knows he doesn't have a full cut of Justice League he wouldn't be misleading the fan-base. Support from Zack Snyder goes a long way to deflate the theories that a Snyder cut is non-existent! As far as the financial end of the argument goes, if there is enough footage of Snyder's in the can, it's not going to cost WB anymore than it would to release an extended Whedon cut. Not only that Zack Snyder did submit his request for his directors cut, so that means he and his editor would likely be brought back if they were needed to complete the cut for release. Directors Guild rules stipulate that WB would have to pay for that anyway, barring any re-shoots or heavy VFX work.

Kingdom of Heaven is an entirely different scenario; most of the cut scenes were character and dialogue scenes that filled the gaps in the story along with some violent shots that were cut to ensure a lower rating. The new scenes did not require extensive VFX work. Kingdom of Heaven's extended cut also came at the time where everyone was going all in on extended cuts on DVD after Lord of the Rings had massive success doing so. a The point I was making above was that most badly received movies that get extended cuts (Daredevil, Ghost Rider) use scenes that were either already finished or do not require extensive work done on them. It's important to note that Fox and Scott are still not doing an extended cut of Exodus due to the extensive VFX work such a cut would require; with Scott standing by the theatrical cut as his "director's cut".

The Snyder cut of Justice League, if it exists (there is still no solid evidence) will still require extensive VFX work before it is completed. This will be an expensive undertaking and will likely be the most expensive "special edition" cut of a film for home video ever made.

You're continually showing a massive misunderstanding of how these major Hollywood films are made and edited.

Zack Snyder liking social media posts is not evidence at all.

Snyder is allowed to submit his cut yeah, but WB has no stipulation to release it or pay for VFX work. Why would they pay to finish scenes that need VFX work when they can make an extended cut using scenes cut late in post production that are already finished for much less money?

The official story is that Snyder agreed with WB that the movie wasn't working in the form it was in then and was planning reshoots. His daughter's death saw him step away from the reshoots and Joss Whedon took over sticking to the plan he and Zack had set out. Yes, WB may have made changes after Snyder left, but there's been nothing that majorly suggests the official story is still not the case.

You being adamant the movie existed in a completed form more than six months before release doesn't fit with anything that we know about how movies like this are made (they are often in flux until the last minute). These movies are always changing up until the final moment. For instance, Loki was cut entirely from Avengers: Age of Ultron at the last moment, despite some promotional material already listing him as part of the cast.

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is probably the perfect example. That film was constantly changing. Characters were cut entirely, some had their screentime trimmed to the bare minimum, many pivotal story and character scenes were cut, Gwen Stacy's fate was constantly changing etc. Early test screenings reported a widely different film than what was released. These big superhero movies are in a constant state of flux. It's rare when one is released where it doesn't undergo massive changes.

[EbonDragon]

Originally Posted by Sabre95

And there's my problem with Zack Snyder. He helped produce and write a fun story in Wonder Woman but everything else he's done in the DCEU has just been average. I don't get the praise.

I'll say the only movie I can think of that I'm a big fan of that people think is sub par is The Incredible Hulk lol.

Yeah, I’ve said it before and I’ll stick to it but Snyder works best on a leash. When he was just starting he came out with a great Dawn of the Dead remake (written by Mr Guardians of the Galaxy himself), and 300 was good despite the source material being a bit on the thin side. It’s when he got carte Blanche and was allowed to balloon his budgets that he started delivering uneven or polarizing work. He needs a good producer to reign him in when necessary and force him to get creative.

Never saw that one, what did you like about it?

[Sabre95]

Originally Posted by EbonDragon

Yeah, I’ve said it before and I’ll stick to it but Snyder works best on a leash. When he was just starting he came out with a great Dawn of the Dead remake (written by Mr Guardians of the Galaxy himself), and 300 was good despite the source material being a bit on the thin side. It’s when he got carte Blanche and was allowed to balloon his budgets that he started delivering uneven or polarizing work. He needs a good producer to reign him in when necessary and force him to get creative.

Never saw that one, what did you like about it?

I thought Edward Norton put on a great performance like he usually does. It was a very serious Bruce Banner as opposed to Mark Ruffalo's Banner who is a little more laid back. The Hulk vs Abomination fight felt a little short but anytime we saw the Hulk it was a lot of fun. I really liked the idea of the whole movie being a man on the run and trying to right his wrongdoings and protecting people by trying to get rid of the gamma radiation instead of embracing his abilities.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Kingdom of Heaven is an entirely different scenario; most of the cut scenes were character and dialogue scenes that filled the gaps in the story along with some violent shots that were cut to ensure a lower rating. The new scenes did not require extensive VFX work. Kingdom of Heaven's extended cut also came at the time where everyone was going all in on extended cuts on DVD after Lord of the Rings had massive success doing so. a The point I was making above was that most badly received movies that get extended cuts (Daredevil, Ghost Rider) use scenes that were either already finished or do not require extensive work done on them. It's important to note that Fox and Scott are still not doing an extended cut of Exodus due to the extensive VFX work such a cut would require; with Scott standing by the theatrical cut as his "director's cut".

The Snyder cut of Justice League, if it exists (there is still no solid evidence) will still require extensive VFX work before it is completed. This will be an expensive undertaking and will likely be the most expensive "special edition" cut of a film for home video ever made.

You're continually showing a massive misunderstanding of how these major Hollywood films are made and edited.

Zack Snyder liking social media posts is not evidence at all.

Snyder is allowed to submit his cut yeah, but WB has no stipulation to release it or pay for VFX work. Why would they pay to finish scenes that need VFX work when they can make an extended cut using scenes cut late in post production that are already finished for much less money?

The official story is that Snyder agreed with WB that the movie wasn't working in the form it was in then and was planning reshoots. His daughter's death saw him step away from the reshoots and Joss Whedon took over sticking to the plan he and Zack had set out. Yes, WB may have made changes after Snyder left, but there's been nothing that majorly suggests the official story is still not the case.

You being adamant the movie existed in a completed form more than six months before release doesn't fit with anything that we know about how movies like this are made (they are often in flux until the last minute). These movies are always changing up until the final moment. For instance, Loki was cut entirely from Avengers: Age of Ultron at the last moment, despite some promotional material already listing him as part of the cast.

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is probably the perfect example. That film was constantly changing. Characters were cut entirely, some had their screentime trimmed to the bare minimum, many pivotal story and character scenes were cut, Gwen Stacy's fate was constantly changing etc. Early test screenings reported a widely different film than what was released. These big superhero movies are in a constant state of flux. It's rare when one is released where it doesn't undergo massive changes.

Zack Snyder trolls WB by supporting JUSTICE LEAGUE director's cut theory - YouTube

This video makes some good points that might help you understand the reason why there are so many people convinced that Snyder's Justice League isn't just some unfinished myth.