Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Cutter_]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Career Opportunities does have a physical release. https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Career-O...ies-DVD/11383/

Thanks for the link, but I should of said blu-ray. The digital version is HD, so I’d rather have that than on DVD.

But, I will buy DVD if I have a feeling that there will never be a blu-ray or digital HD version. I bought the DVD’s of “That was then, This is Now” and “Christiane F.” on DVD in the past year, because it will probably be the only way I’ll ever own the movies. In fact I think both of these are now out of print on DVD.

This opens up a whole new can of worms. Not only is physical dying, so is digital. I don’t think we’ll ever have the volume of titles that DVD had. We just gotta support fringe boutique companies that will put out the stuff that is forgotten or no longer profitable by the film industry to remaster, for digital or physical distribution.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cutter_

Not only is physical dying, so is digital.

Neither are dying, but we, ourselves, are marching inexorably to the grave. Where I expect to be entombed with my hoard under pain of a nasty haunting.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Do you honestly believe that Amazon, Google, iTunes, and Vudu will continue to provide access to every movie they've ever sold forever?

If you think you're going to be watching your Blu-rays for decades to come let me try to disabuse you of that notion.

My prerecorded VHS tapes are gone. My LaserDiscs are gone. My DVDs have been boxed up for years and will probably be gone soon too. My HD-DVDs? Same. That covers less than three decades and I don't use any of them anymore, not one. Things change. In a couple of decades you'll be looking at your Blu-rays and shrugging noncommittally - if you kept them that long.

The world is a very dynamic place. In 5+ years I might have access to movies as a monthly subscription the way I have access to a broad array of music. I don't need forever. Hardly anyone does. I need just long enough.

All of my Blu-rays, DVDs, and even my HD DVDs will continue to work for many decades (or longer) without the studios having to do a single thing. If one of my discs breaks I can buy a replacement via the used market long after the studios have dropped all support.

DVD was far more popular than Blu-ray in breadth but there are numerous old DVDs that, if they're available, are only available for high prices. In 2037 do you think you will be able to easily replace the Blu-ray you bought in 2017 that a boutique distributor only made a few thousand copies of? More likely you won't bother because everything will have changed for the better anyway.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Do you honestly believe that Amazon, Google, iTunes, and Vudu will continue to provide access to every movie they've ever sold forever? You think that you'll continue to have access to movies in your library that haven't been profitable in decades?

All of the digital providers are in their infancy. The studios are still trying to entice people to switch to digital so it's no surprise that they aren't dropping movies yet. When that transitional period is over the digital providers will go back to acting like every other business on the planet: they won't spend money supporting products that aren't profitable anymore.

And that's a perfectly reasonable position for the digital providers to have. No one should have to support their products forever. But I won't buy any product that requires continuted support.

All of my Blu-rays, DVDs, and even my HD DVDs will continue to work for many decades (or longer) without the studios having to do a single thing. If one of my discs breaks I can buy a replacement via the used market long after the studios have dropped all support.

You do realise it will be more of a hassle for them to print all the DVD and blu-ray copies of an unprofitable movie and then they'll have stock rotting in a warehouse somewhere. At least with digital they don't have that same sunk investment. I think physical releases will be the first to go, not digital, especially if a studio thinks they have a real turkey on their hands they'll likely skip a physical release altogether.

You also forget that digital isn't just for purchases, it's for rentals as well, whereas physical rental is drying up fast. So movies will always be available digitally as there's an additional revenue stream. Couple people may buy the movie but a couple hundred may rent it. Rentals for certain indie or bad movies are even as cheap as 0.99 on iTunes and Amazon.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

If you think you're going to be watching your Blu-rays for decades to come let me try to disabuse you of that notion.

My prerecorded VHS tapes are gone. My LaserDiscs are gone. My DVDs have been boxed up for years and will probably be gone soon too. My HD-DVDs? Same. That covers less than three decades and I don't use any of them anymore, not one. Things change. In a couple of decades you'll be looking at your Blu-rays and shrugging noncommittally - if you kept them that long.

I still have all of those formats (179 laserdiscs, 126 tapes, 5 HD-DVDs) and I occasionally will watch one of my vhs tapes or, more likely, one of my laserdiscs. I have backed up my laserdiscs to dvd +r discs as well. My Pioneer DVL-909 laserdisc player is still fully operational as is my JVC S5902U S-VHS recorder. My first edition Xbox 360 has the sidecar HD-DVD drive and is in working order as well.

And I view DVDs regularly; a LOT of content is only available on DVD. Of course, this is just my behavior, but I retain all of my videos and I use them, only replacing something when I come across a better edition.

[DamageINC]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Vinyl is a pain in the ass. It does not sound better in theory and certainly not in practice. I am as happy to be rid of my vinyl records as I am of teenage acne.

There is NO way to keep vinyl in pristine condition; it always has some noise present in the playback. All of the expensive cleaning fluids and velvet brushes combined with the time to bathe each album each time you use it will not prevent the inevitable noise upon playback.

Records, even with meticulous storage and cleaning, are adversely affected by the tiniest amounts of dust and they are usually warped to some extent. I always heard some pop, crackle, or hiss with every record I ever owned, even the first time out of the jacket. They attract static like mad, too. Make any mistake at any time handling vinyl and you have a permanent defect on top of it all.

The turntable also adds noise of its own from either the belt driven or the direct drive motor. The lightest tonearm with the finest diamond stylus still shaves off tiny pieces of vinyl with each playback, further degrading the record.

They sound worse, always have noise present, impossible to maintain, accident prone, and they still degrade despite your best efforts to care for them. You can have them. The only thing I miss about them is the cool cover art on their large jackets.

'

This certainly isn't my experience. I wet clean all my LPs , zap the static and house them in good anti-static, scratch free inner sleeves. I keep my Stylus cleaned (no chemicals) and properly maintain and store everything at all times.

Most of my LPs are dead silent (during music playback) No crackle, no pops, no ticks, no anything. I have decades old Jazz LPs that are dead quiet. Not all, but quite a few. Some older records do have a bit of crackle here and there, but nothing too bad.

To say they ALL have surface noise is inaccurate. That may well have been your experience, but it isn't mine.

"Better" or "worse" sound is subjective. I much prefer the warm sound i get from my Cartridge (Grado) over the digital, clinical sound of a CD. I also like that i can swap out carts and/or styli. Part of the fun for me. That's all personal preference, but saying all LPs have noise is false.

[The_Donster]

See, this goes back to my earlier argument in one of my last posts. The way I see it, digital is no different than cable, except you actually own your digital copy. Just like you own your physical copy. However, paid cable stations movies and shows, like streaming services, come and go. Yet I don't hear any war drums in the forum. How is it different is the point I guess I'm trying to make.

As far as the person arguing that you lose your digital library? I call bullshit! I hate to be so blunt, but it is. A few years ago I reset my computer back to the factory and upgraded to Windows 10. I reinstalled iTunes once I did. My movies were no longer there and all I did was reinstall the movies. I only hit a snag with a few and contacted Apple, who gave me a new code to redeem.

Once my wife and I went back to iPhones, all of our movies showed up in our library through the iCloud. Now you have Movies Anywhere that has all but Paramount, Lionsgate, and MGM. I primarily use VUDU and iTunes to redeem through them without issues. Anything that is suppose to port does. 90 movies on VUDU (92) and iTunes (101).

Which is why I scoff when someone trolls the MA Facebook Page on losing XYZ of their digital copies with them. You didn't lose anything and they aren't forcing you to use just their app. As someone else said, I utilize both. I also still watch DVD's when I'm on vacation with the family. Is the picture as awesome as my tvs' at home? No, but I do my best with what I've got at the time.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

See, this goes back to my earlier argument in one of my last posts. The way I see it, digital is no different than cable, except you actually own your digital copy. Just like you own your physical copy. However, paid cable stations movies and shows, like streaming services, come and go. Yet I don't hear any war drums in the forum. How is it different is the point I guess I'm trying to make.

As far as the person arguing that you lose your digital library? I call bullshit! I hate to be so blunt, but it is. A few years ago I reset my computer back to the factory and upgraded to Windows 10. I reinstalled iTunes once I did. My movies were no longer there and all I did was reinstall the movies. I only hit a snag with a few and contacted Apple, who gave me a new code to redeem.

Once my wife and I went back to iPhones, all of our movies showed up in our library through the iCloud. Now you have Movies Anywhere that has all but Paramount, Lionsgate, and MGM. I primarily use VUDU and iTunes to redeem through them without issues. Anything that is suppose to port does. 90 movies on VUDU (92) and iTunes (101).

Which is why I scoff when someone trolls the MA Facebook Page on losing XYZ of their digital copies with them. You didn't lose anything and they aren't forcing you to use just their app. As someone else said, I utilize both. I also still watch DVD's when I'm on vacation with the family. Is the picture as awesome as my tvs' at home? No, but I do my best with what I've got at the time.

The point you are missing is Netflix and Amazon are looking to distribute films directly to the consumer. When did cable do that mainstream wise? Look at the latest Cloverfield for proof.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by DamageINC

'
To say they ALL have surface noise is inaccurate. That may well have been your experience, but it isn't mine.

I am glad your experience with vinyl has been so positive, but it is entirely different than mine. I can not recall having ever heard a single vinyl record play flawlessly, from my at one-time large collection, that of family members, or that of my friends, on my equipment or theirs. Noise to varying degrees was ALWAYS present and noticeable. The Rice Crispies in milk effect is ever present if you are paying any attention at all while they spin and get slowly shaved by your stylus. The turntable motors are notorious for introducing hum into the sound also.

Too much work to play and care for them. They are inconvenient in every way they can be. Store them in a vacuum, clean them immaculately, handle them with surgical care, and discover the LP is warped anyway. Have one ham-handed friend mishandle one and they are ruined, too.

For over 20 years now, audio has been mastered digitally. A generation of music has been mastered in digital, not analog. That fact alone is all of the objective proof I need to establish the superiority of digital over analog. Audio masters are made with the very best technology and analog ain't it. CDs may seem clinical to some, but vinyl does not offer "warmth"; what they have are "warts." People fondly recalling all of these imperfections as a virtue are tone deaf for their nostalgia.

[Indy64]

I too grew up listening to nothing but vinyl (and 8-Track and cassettes) and I agree. It was a PITA to keep them in good shape and yes, they always had annoying pops and hum and don't forget if your set up wasn't on a solid surface and you happened to walk to close to the turntable, you could cause the record to skip.

I was thankful for the introduction of CD's. I embraced them 100% and collected many of them over the years to have that crisp clear and "quiet" sound. It was an amazing format when introduced. I agree that vinyl isn't what I'd call "warmer sounding". All the pops and hisses was just distracting.

More power to those who think vinyl is the new "it" thing to collect, but I'm not falling for it this go round.

Note that I still have my vinyl collection and my Technics turntable but haven't used in in decades. It was fun when it was all we had, but it's not worth investing in now.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

If you think you're going to be watching your Blu-rays for decades to come let me try to disabuse you of that notion.

My prerecorded VHS tapes are gone. My LaserDiscs are gone. My DVDs have been boxed up for years and will probably be gone soon too. My HD-DVDs? Same. That covers less than three decades and I don't use any of them anymore, not one. Things change. In a couple of decades you'll be looking at your Blu-rays and shrugging noncommittally - if you kept them that long.

The world is a very dynamic place. In 5+ years I might have access to movies as a monthly subscription the way I have access to a broad array of music. I don't need forever. Hardly anyone does. I need just long enough.



DVD was far more popular than Blu-ray in breadth but there are numerous old DVDs that, if they're available, are only available for high prices. In 2037 do you think you will be able to easily replace the Blu-ray you bought in 2017 that a boutique distributor only made a few thousand copies of? More likely you won't bother because everything will have changed for the better anyway.

Changed? Yes, for the better? I doubt it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

If you think you're going to be watching your Blu-rays for decades to come let me try to disabuse you of that notion.

My prerecorded VHS tapes are gone. My LaserDiscs are gone. My DVDs have been boxed up for years and will probably be gone soon too. My HD-DVDs? Same. That covers less than three decades and I don't use any of them anymore, not one. Things change. In a couple of decades you'll be looking at your Blu-rays and shrugging noncommittally - if you kept them that long.

The world is a very dynamic place. In 5+ years I might have access to movies as a monthly subscription the way I have access to a broad array of music. I don't need forever. Hardly anyone does. I need just long enough.



DVD was far more popular than Blu-ray in breadth but there are numerous old DVDs that, if they're available, are only available for high prices. In 2037 do you think you will be able to easily replace the Blu-ray you bought in 2017 that a boutique distributor only made a few thousand copies of? More likely you won't bother because everything will have changed for the better anyway.

Just because you have packed away your DVD’s doesn’t mean others have. Seriously, I can still play VHS and look how long they have been around? You can pick one up on EBay and I don’t see any reason why that would change. DVD will be playable for decades absolutely. So will Blu-ray.

[Vilya]

I appreciate nostalgia, but from afar when it comes to vinyl.

Motorola1974.jpg
Here's my cool Motorola hand-me down that I got from from my big sister about 1974. We would lug this rig from place to place. Some friends and I are listening to our 45's; we were too poor to buy the whole LP while the single was just 65 cents. Notice the nice placement of our drinks atop the speakers.

Stereo1979.jpg
By 1979, I used the money I earned from my pizza parlor job to buy this stereo. That's a Dual turntable; it could track a record even when tilted at a 45 degree angle. The amp is a 90 watt Kenwood paired with Bose 601 speakers. I thought I had it all!

ERLA01A.jpg
And this is grandma's radio. Of all the gear above, it alone remains with me. Give it five minutes and the vacuum tubes warm up and it comes to life. The sound from that mono speaker captivated its audience for decades.

[captaincarl]

I don't know if its my kids influence or perhaps logging in and reading threads on here every day but my stance is complete different today then it was...lets say even less then 6 months ago. It's even affecting my purchasing because I would rather purchase a blu that includes the digital copy nowadays.

Gone are my needs to pick up a cheaper version of the film that does not have the digital copy. I am actually going to start inputting my digital collection onto my database in this forum. I wrote that off last year and the year before that but now feel compelled to do so.

Can't believe how far I have 180ed on this subject. Now I am starting to feel the itch to get digital copies for all the movies in my collection. I feel flabbergasted lol

I wonder how I will feel about this next year.

Cheers,
CC-

[cpr3584]

Best Buy getting rid of CDs in stores, Target could be making a similar move.
Soon.. the company could ONLY pay for the D-V-D's and C-D's that are SOLD... not the ones that are left on the shelf.
It hopes to make the switch in April or May.
https://kxan.com/2018/02/06/best-buy...cds-in-stores/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by captaincarl

I don't know if its my kids influence or perhaps logging in and reading threads on here every day but my stance is complete different today then it was...lets say even less then 6 months ago. It's even affecting my purchasing because I would rather purchase a blu that includes the digital copy nowadays.

Gone are my needs to pick up a cheaper version of the film that does not have the digital copy. I am actually going to start inputting my digital collection onto my database in this forum. I wrote that off last year and the year before that but now feel compelled to do so.

Can't believe how far I have 180ed on this subject. Now I am starting to feel the itch to get digital copies for all the movies in my collection. I feel flabbergasted lol

I wonder how I will feel about this next year.

Cheers,
CC-

You are betraying quality by going this route and setting us (home cinema) on a downward spiral. Also, Digital HD is not going to last as a mainstream option. It is already showing signs of peaking even this early in its life. That is not healthy for future growth. It’s safe to say that Digital HD will never make up for the decline of DVD. Not even close. Subscription IS the future though. That is what disc is competing against. Digital HD is this generation’s MP3 downloads. Sitting there idle and beloved while everyone streams or listens to vinyl. The exact same scenario will play out here. Digital HD is a stepping stone to subscription and everyone in this thread will be agreeing with me in a few short years. (certainly not the case now)

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

Best Buy getting rid of CDs in stores, Target could be making a similar move.
Soon.. the company could ONLY pay for the D-V-D's and C-D's that are SOLD... not the ones that are left on the shelf.
It hopes to make the switch in April or May.
https://kxan.com/2018/02/06/best-buy...cds-in-stores/

This is no big deal. Anyone wanting CDs are pretty much covered by online stores these days.

[Indy64]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

Best Buy getting rid of CDs in stores, Target could be making a similar move.
Soon.. the company could ONLY pay for the D-V-D's and C-D's that are SOLD... not the ones that are left on the shelf.
It hopes to make the switch in April or May.
https://kxan.com/2018/02/06/best-buy...cds-in-stores/

I bet we see a similar article within the next 5 years but it will be referring to DVD/Blu/4K discs.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Indy64

I bet we see a similar article within the next 5 years but it will be referring to DVD/Blu/4K discs.

Yes. They will be brand new releases only, if they carry movies at all.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Indy64

I bet we see a similar article within the next 5 years but it will be referring to DVD/Blu/4K discs.

It won’t matter. Stores are dying anyway. Like I said, online online online. Discs are pretty much a crutch for home entertainment and will continue to be for some time.