Rationale for HDR10+ and Dolby Vision ?

[kfbkfb]

Human eye information:
https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

...the human eye's huge Dynamic Range, which has a
dynamic contrast ratio of around 1,000,000:1...

...the human eye's static dynamic range,
many agree it is around 10,000:1...


The human eye can't adjust the static dynamic range
within the dynamic contrast range in 1/60 second
(the time for 1 video frame), so exceeding 10,000:1
(with HDR10+ or Dolby Vision) doesn't seem to serve
a purpose.

Why bother with HDR10+ and Dolby Vision, just use
regular HDR10 and dynamically adjust the picture
contrast/brightness (and related factors) on the
Original Master Video as needed, that way every
viewer (on a calibrated HDR TV) sees the desired
picture quality.

Kirk Bayne

[Aidenag]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Human eye information:
https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

...the human eye's huge Dynamic Range, which has a
dynamic contrast ratio of around 1,000,000:1...

...the human eye's static dynamic range,
many agree it is around 10,000:1...


The human eye can't adjust the static dynamic range
within the dynamic contrast range in 1/60 second
(the time for 1 video frame), so exceeding 10,000:1
(with HDR10+ or Dolby Vision) doesn't seem to serve
a purpose.

Why bother with HDR10+ and Dolby Vision, just use
regular HDR10 and dynamically adjust the picture
contrast/brightness (and related factors) on the
Original Master Video as needed, that way every
viewer (on a calibrated HDR TV) sees the desired
picture quality.

Kirk Bayne

Just because they are capable of doing more than the human eye can see, doesn't mean they can't do anything the human eye CAN see that standard hdr10 cant do.. Though i do agree that hdr10+ is pointless

[Cortiz]

Simple......$$$$$
and us suckers will always bite.....

[jibucha]

Kirt Bayne


dynamic range and dynamic metadata are not the same at all

all that is shared is the term 'dynamic'

other than that, they are entirely different

from what i got from your original post, you're mixing concepts and terms (not criticizing)

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regarding your closing question/comments; HDR10 is simply an early element of Dolby Vision, which is a comprehensive suite of elements, with improving picture quality collectively it's purpose

interestingly, what you mention as a goal of using HDR10 is what Dolby Vision does (comprehensively and end-to-end with regards to content creation to display presentation - including display calibration with the intent of an accurate representation of the original content grading/mastering by the director/studio)

HDR10+ is simply an 'incomplete' attempt to avoid supporting Dolby Vision, is not founded on picture quality as Dolby Vision, rather founded on business practices of cost savings and limited in scope to high dynamic range performance unlike Dolby Vision

if i have not been clear - your question at closing, is an explanation of what Dolby Vision generally accomplishes (actually quite interesting)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Human eye information:
https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

Better…..http://www.jennyreadresearch.com/201...visual-system/ view in particular Lecture 2.

Even better are the annual Colloquiums at UCI, latest being - https://www.ghei.uci.edu/PDF/2017-FI...AM-10-5-17.pdf
Little known aside and not in the Bio, Baruch is fluent in Portuguese, Spanish and of course, English.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by jibucha

Kirt Bayne


dynamic range and dynamic metadata are not the same at all

all that is shared is the term 'dynamic'

other than that, they are entirely different

from what i got from your original post, you're mixing concepts and terms (not criticizing)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

regarding your closing question/comments; HDR10 is simply an early element of Dolby Vision, which is a comprehensive suite of elements, with improving picture quality collectively it's purpose

interestingly, what you mention as a goal of using HDR10 is what Dolby Vision does (comprehensively and end-to-end with regards to content creation to display presentation - including display calibration with the intent of an accurate representation of the original content grading/mastering by the director/studio)

HDR10+ is simply an 'incomplete' attempt to avoid supporting Dolby Vision, is not founded on picture quality as Dolby Vision, rather founded on business practices of cost savings and limited in scope to high dynamic range performance unlike Dolby Vision

if i have not been clear - your question at closing, is an explanation of what Dolby Vision generally accomplishes (actually quite interesting)

Correct, but in fairness, you’re a little harsh on - http://www.hdr10plus.org/

[kfbkfb]

Restating my question/comment:

Rather than require an Ultra HD Blu-ray disc with Dolby Vision/HDR10+
and an Ultra HD Blu-ray player the can decode Dolby Vision/HDR10+
and a UHDTV that can process Dolby Vision/HDR10+, just use
Dolby Vision/HDR10+ on the Original Master Video, that way all
that is needed is a (calibrated) UHDTV with regular HDR and a
bare bones Ultra HD Blu-ray disc player to see the desired
(Dolby Vision/HDR10+ enhanced) picture.

UHDTVs with HDR can only display a certain range of contrast
and color intensity, it doesn't matter if the contrast/color comes
from Dolby Vision/HDR10+ processing (disc+player+TV) or from the
Original Master Video (processed with Dolby Vision/HDR10+).

Kirk Bayne

[AaronY]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Restating my question/comment:

Rather than require an Ultra HD Blu-ray disc with Dolby Vision/HDR10+
and an Ultra HD Blu-ray player the can decode Dolby Vision/HDR10+
and a UHDTV that can process Dolby Vision/HDR10+, just use
Dolby Vision/HDR10+ on the Original Master Video, that way all
that is needed is a (calibrated) UHDTV with regular HDR and a
bare bones Ultra HD Blu-ray disc player to see the desired
(Dolby Vision/HDR10+ enhanced) picture.

UHDTVs with HDR can only display a certain range of contrast
and color intensity, it doesn't matter if the contrast/color comes
from Dolby Vision/HDR10+ processing (disc+player+TV) or from the
Original Master Video (processed with Dolby Vision/HDR10+).

Kirk Bayne

I am not an expert but I think Dolby Vision can change more on individual frames where its needed or something whereas the overall values on HDR10 remain the same (?)

[PaulGo]

HDR10+: the new HDR standard that's taking a leaf out of Dolby's book

https://www.techradar.com/news/hdr10...of-dolbys-book

I believe the above article explains the benefit of HDR10+ and DV. HDR10 can be adjusted on a scene by scene basis (and to me it looks very good) however the enhanced HDR formats takes the TV sets ability into consideration and modifies the HDR to be optimized to the capabilities of the TV. The enhanced formats HDR can also be adjusted on a frame by frame basis.

[eddievanhalen]

Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are designed to get the most out of lower end T.V. sets by embedding instructions on the video data so the T.V. set can compress bright peaks so they don't clip, or raise too black levels so they become visible on sets with a lower contrast ratio, all this done on a frame to frame or scene to scene basis. This can't be done during the video mastering/color correction as what looks right on a T.V. set may look bad, too dark or overblown on a different set.
On a set with a good panel that has great specs for contrast and a high brightness output (without compromising contrast) dinamic metadata becomes less useful, if at all. The same can be said about T.V.sets with great tone mapping, some done great tone mapping and ignore the static metadata on HDR10. If both, a great panel and great tone mapping are matched dinamic metadata, Dolby Vision and HDR10+ become (in real life situations) unnecesary.

[jibucha]

thank you :: although i thought that i was being quite fair and polite

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Correct, but in fairness, you’re a little harsh on - http://www.hdr10plus.org/