The Criterion Collection

[mja345]

Originally Posted by yarulbcool

Sorry for the double bump related to Moore, but calling him a Marxist is either ignorant or purposefully misleading. His most left work is Capitalism a love story and there's absolutely nothing Marxist about it at all. There are, however, a ton of actual Marxists in the collection. Godard, Pasolini, Eisenstein, Costa-Gavras, Pontecorvo, Rossellini, Bertolucci, and many many others. You could even argue several Chaplin, Kubrick, Cuaron and Tarkovsky films are heavily Marx-influenced.

Also, Elio Petri deserves a mention. "Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion" is a very political film, overtly so. Marco Ferreri, whose "Dillinger is Dead" is in the collection, was very political as well. And, of course, Bunuel's 70s films are very clearly social and political satires.

[Jexes23]

Originally Posted by yarulbcool

Sorry for the double bump related to Moore, but calling him a Marxist is either ignorant or purposefully misleading. His most left work is Capitalism a love story and there's absolutely nothing Marxist about it at all. There are, however, a ton of actual Marxists in the collection. Godard, Pasolini, Eisenstein, Costa-Gavras, Pontecorvo, Rossellini, Bertolucci, and many many others. You could even argue several Chaplin, Kubrick, Cuaron and Tarkovsky films are heavily Marx-influenced.

The argument for Kubrick’s films having any Marxist influence would be very poor since it’s not at all true.

[Jexes23]

Originally Posted by yarulbcool

You don't know what you're talking about. Spartacus is a film based on Howard Fast's (a devout communist) novel and is filled with Marxist/communist references. Anti-communists all across the country protested this film and Kubrick.

2001 is also filled with Hegelian/Marxist concepts. Marx's theories of alienation, commodity fetishism, and species-being are, contrary to the beliefs of the anti-communist ideologues, arguably his most important contributions to philosophy, sociology, economics, etc. The parallels between 2001 and these Marxist theories are undeniable.

I never said Kubrick was a Marxist. But you're in extreme denial if you refuse to admit he is, to a degree, a Marxian.

You’re grasping. Just because in the 50’s and 60’s some center right people saw Communism and Marxism in everything doesn’t mean it was there. It’s just like people who see the Devil in everything. I’ll go by my own eyes having watched all his films multiple times. And I’ll also go on numerous quotes from close friends and relatives and his biopic which set him in stark contrast to anything Marxian at all.

[Jexes23]

Originally Posted by yarulbcool

Textbook cognitive dissonance. I'm not grasping at anything. Fast was a communist. His work was openly communist. Kubrick based a film on Fast's work. Kubrick carried over many of the communist references. And it's off-topic, but the hardcore anti-communists of the '50s and '60s were much further right than "center right."

I'm not sure why you seem so offended by the idea that Kubrick is influenced by Marx. By the middle of the twentieth century, intellectually stimulating art and Marx were inseparable. Kubrick was a master filmmaker, not a master philosopher or social theorist. The greatest minds to ever walk the Earth dedicate their lives to constructing social theories similar to those found in 2001. Thus, it's irrational to believe Kubrick created that film in a vacuum. Take a breath and recognize the fact that being influenced by Marx doesn't automatically make you pro-Stalin or whatever it is that's making you so upset at the thought of Kubrick being influence by Marx (Marx himself would have condemned the entire Soviet project anyway).

Textbook strawman. I’m not “offended” by things that don’t exist. Kubrick never mentioned being influenced by or interested in Marxism. Marx wrote a lot of crap. Just because something in his book appears somewhere doesn’t make it Marxist. Marx read books, he was influenced by other thinkers. Political theory started before the 19th century. Just because a book is written by someone who is a Marxist that doesn’t mean that anyone who adapts that story into a movie is inspired by Marxism. I have films where the directors admit to being inspired by it and have talked about it oppenly. It doesn’t offend or bother me. I hate Marxism and I own films inspired by Marxist ideals. I own them because I like the movie. I’m not Marxian by simple association, and neither was Kubrick.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by yarulbcool

You accuse me of creating straw man arguments about you being upset about Kubrick and Marx comparisons in the same post you tell me you hate Marxism. Go figure.

Regarding all the "crap" Marx wrote, every response makes it even more obvious that you've never read it. Yes, Marx was influenced by other theorists, most notably Hegel. Perhaps you should actually read some of Marx's work, then you would see the parallels between 2001 and works like The Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1944, The German Ideology, etc.

Saying that some of Kubrick's work is Marxian is not the same thing as saying he's a political Marxist. Marx's theories go well beyond political ideology, which is something that you seem to not realize. Perhaps Kubrick never read Marx either. But whatever source material inspired the philosophical of his films, particularly in films such as 2001, certainly had read him. And then there's the whole Spartacus thing that is openly Marxist. You shouldn't conveniently leave that out.

Waaaay too much thinking going on here. Time to get things back on track.

I still want The Big Clock, dammit.

[StarDestroyer52]

Let's get things back on track by starting how much I lament the lack of Roman Holiday on Blu.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Let's get things back on track by starting how much I lament the lack of Roman Holiday on Blu.

I've never seen it and I keep skipping it when it shows up on TCM in the hopes of an eventual release.

[theater dreamer]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Let's get things back on track by starting how much I lament the lack of Roman Holiday on Blu.

I have to believe this is coming. Whether it's Criterion or another distributor that gets a hold of it remains to be seen, but considering Audrey Hepburn's enduring popularity, how could it not get a high definition issue?

[jshaide]

Huh, just realized there’s a new Godzilla film coming out in March. Wondering if a kaiju set may coincide with that.

[UncleBuckWild]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Let's get things back on track by starting how much I lament the lack of Roman Holiday on Blu.

What about the brutal fact that they've been literally sitting on the 4K restoration of Chasing Amy!

Beckeroo, from now onwards your Jellyfish ambitions can take a back seat!

Kevin Smith shall return to the Criterion... Collection.

[CRM 114]

Ridiculous that Chaplin, Lloyd and plenty of other deserving directors/actors/films got the shaft for Bowling for Columbine or any documentary for that matter.

[octagon]

I'd gladly shaft Preminger, Kurosawa, Polanski and pretty much anybody else on my wish list in exchange for When We Were Kings.

Now that was a documentary.

[UncleBuckWild]

Originally Posted by octagon

I'd gladly shaft Preminger, Kurosawa, Polanski and pretty much anybody else on my wish list in exchange for When We Were Kings.

Now that was a documentary.

Don't! What if one of them Mulvaney elves heared you say that?

I've been waiting like forever for more Kurosawa!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by UncleBuckWild

What about the brutal fact that they've been literally sitting on the 4K restoration of Chasing Amy!

Beckeroo, from now onwards your Jellyfish ambitions can take a back seat!

Kevin Smith shall return to the Criterion... Collection.

Originally Posted by UncleBuckWild

Don't! What if one of them Mulvaney elves heared you say that?

Oh, now you're worried about the elves?

Originally Posted by UncleBuckWild

I've been waiting like forever for more Kurosawa!

As have I but honestly, as much as I want Drunken Angel or Stray Dog or The Bad Sleep Well I think I might be willing to wait a little longer for them in exchange for When We Were Kings. At the very least, I wouldn't complain.

It's a great movie and should make for a gorgeous BD.

[Martin_31]

Oh theory being brought in. Love it. I took a literary theory course a year ago and what we read and learned we had to apply to films—a good chunk of them Keanu Reeves’s films.

[Hazel Motes]

Bowling For Columbine has one of the worst endings in film history. The lead up is pretty good, but I can't stomach that ending. Pass on that.

I'm in for Virgin Spring though.

Sigh. I really thought Voyage of Time was gonna get announced today. Oh well.

[UncleBuckWild]

Originally Posted by octagon

Oh, now you're worried about the elves?

Originally Posted by octagon

As have I but honestly, as much as I want Drunken Angel or Stray Dog or The Bad Sleep Well I think I might be willing to wait a little longer for them in exchange for When We Were Kings. At the very least, I wouldn't complain.

It's a great movie and should make for a gorgeous BD.

You're doing it again. You don't wanna see me angry.

[Show spoiler]

Carrie (9/12) Movie CLIP - Carrie Gets Angry (1976) HD - YouTube

[traths]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Let's get things back on track by starting how much I lament the lack of Roman Holiday on Blu.

We need this ASAP! It's taking way too long to release it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lordy

Michael Moore has been a leftist, Marxist loon for decades. It's certainly not a "knee-jerk emotional reaction". It's a well thought out intellectual argument made without any unharnessed emotions. The guy is a divider, a nut-job, and a goon.

A volley of insults is not an argument, yet alone a well thought out one. It most definitely is an emotional response.

An argument provides a rationale and evidence to support its contention in an effort to convince others. What you have provided is simply a diatribe, nothing more.

[TajSamKojiJesam]

Originally Posted by octagon

Waaaay too much thinking going on here. Time to get things back on track.

I still want The Big Clock, dammit.

Honestly, these analyses and discussions are what makes this thread interesting to read.