Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Vilya

EULAs should not even be considered an "agreement"; they are much more like a blank check that the customer just unwittingly hands them. It is like signing a blank contract and trusting the other party to write nice things in it later.

Just because something is stated in an EULA doesn't mean it's actually enforcable. These things are really only there for corporate a$$covering and mean little in practice. When was the last time you were affected by an onerous EULA term?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Not that I want to get involved in this bitrate p*ing contest, but 4K streaming services use a more efficient codec (H.265) than BD. Assuming 40% better compression at similar quality, 25 Mbps H.265 is about equivalent to 35 Mbps H.264. Add HDR into the picture and the result is more than good enough for most people.
And here I thought it's image quality that matters.

Subjectively comparing iTunes 4K and UHD BD I find that the difference is surprisingly small and really only noticeable when pixel peeping.
True, but that is balanced out by another similarly hyperbolic poster on the other side.

It’s only hyperbolic if none of it comes true. If it does it’s visionary. And oh boy will I be contacting you lot. (Never wanted to be wrong so much in my life about tech)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

And here I thought it's image quality that matters.

True, but that is balanced out by another similarly hyperbolic poster on the other side.

Within the context of the referenced discussion, bitrates were the p*ing contest du jour and they do impact image AND audio quality. The codec involved is hugely important, but focusing on multiple aspects of the process might have proven to be too taxing for some. Combating one fallacy at a time is the best that can be done here.

I try hard to avoid making absolute statements like "it's dead", "it's dying," "it's a thing of the past" and so forth. If I do use such hyperbole, I expect and deserve to be called out for it.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s only hyperbolic if none of it comes true. If it does it’s visionary.

The Thin Dumb Line.mp4 - YouTube

Originally Posted by Steedeel

And oh boy will I be contacting you lot.

This might help...

[Show spoiler]

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Just because something is stated in an EULA doesn't mean it's actually enforcable. These things are really only there for corporate a$$covering and mean little in practice. When was the last time you were affected by an onerous EULA term?

Only a court can make the decision as to what is enforceable and Apple has deeper pockets than I do. If I ever wanted to take them on in court they could litigate me into oblivion and not bat an eye. And remember in their EULA, you gave up the right to sue them in the first place.

I have not agreed to as many EULAs as have some of you, so no "onerous" term has personally affected me that I can recall. Those terms and the potential threat of them remain just the same, like a knife at the throat of the consumer. They may not have slit your throat yet, but the knife is sharp and poised if they ever decide they want to wet their blade. A little hyperbolic analogy for your dining pleasure.

I will never excuse one-sided and unfair terms simply because the entity reserving the right to treat me like shyte has not acted on them...yet.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

The Thin Dumb Line.mp4 - YouTube



This might help...

[Show spoiler]

Yeah keep them coming.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah keep them coming.

You can have my mouse when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

Which happen looooooooooong before TVs or projectors go anywhere.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I almost never have to contact anyone's customer service because my discs are amazingly reliable. I want to spend my time watching my collection, not figuring out what happened to it. I don't care what Apple, Amazon, Google Play, Vudu, or Movies Anywhere decides to do with their digital services because my discs are immune from whatever schemes they cook up next and whatever snafus they find themselves embroiled in. My disc resolutions never change, the movie version never reverts to a shorter cut, and titles in my library never go AWOL.

Your discs also do not get free upgrades to the remastered versions as my digital copies of Goodfellas and Heat did

Some of you sound as paranoid about losing digital titles as the gun owners who think people are coming for their guns.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

You can have my mouse when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

Which happen looooooooooong before TVs or projectors go anywhere.

Put that book down and stop channeling Charlton before anyone gets hurt.

[Show spoiler]

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Just because something is stated in an EULA doesn't mean it's actually enforcable. These things are really only there for corporate a$$covering and mean little in practice. When was the last time you were affected by an onerous EULA term?

I don't think you should ever sign a horrible contract with the thought that it probably wont be enforceable.

As far as people being affected by onerous eula terms it actually happens more often then you think all you do is pick people off one by one. You tubes basically removing any content they don't like, Microsoft banning anybody who says a bad word, magic the gatherings banning anyone who says something about them that they don't like (they went full sjw crazy). As far as the supposedly unenforceable things go they hold up until somebody is actually willing to sue (spending many times the money they already have in a service and will likely get) on principle.

Hell amazon was committing about as close to crime as possible by banning people for having to many returns (which is in no way spelled out and totally arbitrary) and then not refunding the gift cards they had on their accounts. Companies totally enforce these things until somebody is willing to sue over it and the only one who makes any money over it is the lawyers.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Put that book down and stop channeling Charlton before anyone gets hurt.

[Show spoiler]

Talking to the dead is actually pretty fun. Sinatra is kind of a prick but everybody else has been super nice.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

Your discs also do not get free upgrades to the remastered versions as my digital copies of Goodfellas and Heat did

Some of you sound as paranoid about losing digital titles as the gun owners who think people are coming for their guns.

Digital has some advantages and I occasionally mention them, but when I get around to buying those two titles on 4K UHD I will have the discs and the codes for both. I am quality motivated, not bargain obsessed. I like a bargain, sure, and I will get these when they are around $15 or so. My blu-rays will suffice until then.

I am not personally worried about what happens to digital libraries because the only digital titles I have came with the disc. I only have the digital titles activated that came with Disney Rewards migrating to the perpetual mess that is MA. Most of my codes are enshrined unused in the disc cases they arrived in. I have no use for them.

The headaches that are posted multiple times daily in the MA thread alone are enough to keep me away. Their titles may not disappear forever, but they take lots of day trips.

The terrible stories of digital customer service, the finger pointing, the "we're not responsible" boiler plate replies to problems are enough to convince me that they do not care about their customers in the slightest.

As for those nasty, unfriendly EULAs that some of you rationalize away, I hope their many clauses are never used to your detriment. I do want everyone to get what they pay for. But the agreements are real, they do exist, they are not to your benefit, and you all agree to them sight unseen. They can enact these terms and you have even agreed to give up your rights to legal recourse. They reserve the right to hurt you, but until you feel any pain, that's okay with you, but it will never be so with me.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right Master, Disc and Digital could coexist, I still have a large Disc Collection. I just get tired of people putting Digital HD down, when for Blu-ray all you need is 40Mbps Bandwidth. With your high end Streaming Providers these Bitrates are easily attainable.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Except that none of them offer bitrates of 40 Mbps; your much ballyhooed, "state of the art" Sony Ultra offers only 25 Mbps by your own admission.

Real world bitrates are what matter, not theoretical rates that do not exist.

The epidemic use of hyperbole bothers me and that is why I criticize it so strongly when I encounter it so very, very often.

That's why I said 25+Mbps, because it can double depending on the Movie. I also talked about the new Codec H.265 with Adaptive Bit Streaming. So depending on your Bandwidth the Quality of your Streaming will increase. They have matched Blu-ray Disc Quality, and they are now working on UHD Disc Quality.

[stonesfan129]

Ha. Matched Blu-ray disc quality. If you say so. I will keep buying my movies on a disc. Cannot get locked out. No buffering. Audio and video quality are better than the equivalent streaming. Please stop comparing 1080p Blu-ray discs to 4K UHD streaming. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

[littlepooch21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Ha. Matched Blu-ray disc quality. Whatever, I will keep buying my movies on a disc. Cannot get locked out. No buffering. Audio and video quality are better than the equivalent streaming. Please stop comparing 1080p Blu-ray discs to 4K UHD streaming. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Do you think that 4K UHD digital is comparable to a Blu-ray disc? Just a questions, i don't have any skin in the game lol.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by littlepooch21

Do you think that 4K UHD digital is comparable to a Blu-ray disc? Just a questions, i don't have any skin in the game lol.

I mean it's not a fair comparison. You're comparing 2160p to 1080p.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That's why I said 25+Mbps, because it can double depending on the Movie. I also talked about the new Codec H.265 with Adaptive Bit Streaming. So depending on your Bandwidth the Quality of your Streaming will increase. They have matched Blu-ray Disc Quality, and they are now working on UHD Disc Quality.

The mileage you get out of that "+" symbol! So now, 25+_ =25 x 2 contingent upon one's ISP capabilities. Why not give yourself some wiggle room and make it 25+_=25 x 3? Maybe just stick with "to infinity and beyond"; it covers all the bases.

Again, even if your idolized Sony Ultra can do all you say it does, it still only maybe equates to an ordinary blu-ray. Combine that with the fact that few people even have this service and that the selection is limited to Sony titles, your idllyic Sony Ultra is a gigantic

As for what they are working on, if you even really know, they get no credit until they achieve it. They haven't and they don't.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I mean it's not a fair comparison. You're comparing 2160p to 1080p.

What does fair have to do with anything?

It's not like we're allocating college admissions or seats on a lifeboat. We're comparing different technologies.

And if any kind of streaming is knocking on the door of BD quality that's pretty big news.

[bladerunner1]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I mean it's not a fair comparison. You're comparing 2160p DV/HDR to 1080p DV/HDR.

Fixed.

And then it becomes about screen size and seating distance. Quality of TV and your eyes etc. I'm sure a lot of people out there can make BD look better than someone else's 4K due to superior equipment/setup.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by octagon

And if any kind of streaming is knocking on the door of BD quality that's pretty big news.

Not for someone who has owned blu-rays for years. Another way of delivering what I already have had for a long time does not excite me any, but I would not deprive you of yours.