Microsoft: lots of reasons why Xbox 360 won't go Blu-ray

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by york weir

I don't think anyone believes what Amir says anyway.

True, he spouted a lot of BS, but when it comes to forcing out things that aren't positive about his products like technical limitations, it's more believable than the usual bashings of his competitions "50GB blu-ray being science fiction" (that worked out real good for you Amirm ) etc.

For example it took lots of repeated questions (at AVSforum) about the possibility of lossless surround on the 360 with the add-on for him to finally to confirm that it wasn't technically possible with the 360 hardware.

[Forrestandjen07]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

It is not in MS's interest to announce that Blu-ray was actually a better bet than HD DVD right now. Not while 360 sales are still doing alright, it would dent their image and actually make that silly chart from SCE look relevant.

I firmly believe that MS will be using HD DVD in their next console instead of Blu-ray most of the ecosystem is in place already (thanks to Toshiba) and it gives them massive protection against piracy as it is nearly impossible to produce anything more than a 1x HD DVD-R.

Obviously this does leave the whole no HD optical disc content, but by then the XBL marketplace will have a good enough selection of HD-Lite movies to keep or rent along with Netflix style streaming services.

Why would Microsoft even bother announce Blu ray was better than HD? Obviously, everyone now already knows that to begin with.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

I firmly believe that MS will be using HD DVD in their next console instead of Blu-ray most of the ecosystem is in place already (thanks to Toshiba) and it gives them massive protection against piracy as it is nearly impossible to produce anything more than a 1x HD DVD-R.

Presumably they'd either make a new agreement or otherwise get around the issue that stopped Denon from including HDDVD in their super player? Supposedly something to the effect that Toshiba wouldn't make them the necessarily blue-laser diodes or complete drives or something to that effect?

Originally Posted by Maxpower

Obviously this does leave the whole no HD optical disc content, but by then the XBL marketplace will have a good enough selection of HD-Lite movies to keep or rent along with Netflix style streaming services.

Think MSFT wouldn't try limited distrubution of discs for at least specific studios and/or titles ala UMD?

[york weir]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

It is not in MS's interest to announce that Blu-ray was actually a better bet than HD DVD right now. Not while 360 sales are still doing alright, it would dent their image and actually make that silly chart from SCE look relevant.

I firmly believe that MS will be using HD DVD in their next console instead of Blu-ray most of the ecosystem is in place already (thanks to Toshiba) and it gives them massive protection against piracy as it is nearly impossible to produce anything more than a 1x HD DVD-R.

Obviously this does leave the whole no HD optical disc content, but by then the XBL marketplace will have a good enough selection of HD-Lite movies to keep or rent along with Netflix style streaming services.

I actually had the HD DVD thought as well. It would be a perfect medium for them to use since it could make piracy tough, the infrastructure is there and a 30gb disc would be much better than they are currently using.

[york weir]

Originally Posted by Monkey

True, he spouted a lot of BS, but when it comes to forcing out things that aren't positive about his products like technical limitations, it's more believable than the usual bashings of his competitions "50GB blu-ray being science fiction" (that worked out real good for you Amirm ) etc.

For example it took lots of repeated questions (at AVSforum) about the possibility of lossless surround on the 360 with the add-on for him to finally to confirm that it wasn't technically possible with the 360 hardware.

I see, so believe him when it benefits our interests but when it is against he's full of it. Gotcha.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by york weir

I see, so believe him when it benefits our interests but when it is against he's full of it. Gotcha.

That's not it at all.

He was very vague on the Elite (as that got HDMI first) supporting lossless audio, telling everyone it was a HDMI 1.2 port and the spec for that was capable of PCM audio, but he always neglected to mention that the 360 doesn't have the internal bandwidth for HD audio. Eventually someone cornered him and he revealed what we all figured out anyway. I think it was more that he couldn't lie his way out of that one as it would have incurred penalties on MS themselves as he was representing them. Actually I'm not sure it was even him that confirmed it couldn't do HD audio. It could have been the much more reasonable Brian Killian from the Xbox dep...

[quexos]

As far as I am concerned, it's okay that the 360 won't go Blu-ray cause I don't plan to go 360

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

That's not it at all.

He was very vague on the Elite (as that got HDMI first) supporting lossless audio, telling everyone it was a HDMI 1.2 port and the spec for that was capable of PCM audio, but he always neglected to mention that the 360 doesn't have the internal bandwidth for HD audio. Eventually someone cornered him and he revealed what we all figured out anyway. I think it was more that he couldn't lie his way out of that one as it would have incurred penalties on MS themselves as he was representing them. Actually I'm not sure it was even him that confirmed it couldn't do HD audio. It could have been the much more reasonable Brian Killian from the Xbox dep...

He did himself confirm it at AVS, like I said after several members asked because he kept beating around the bush.

Originally Posted by york weir

I see, so believe him when it benefits our interests but when it is against he's full of it. Gotcha.

If you knew Amirm and his posting habits (long history of lies and deceit) you'd know it make sense to be skeptical of his constant bashing of blu-ray (numero uno viral marketer for HD DVD), Heck a large % of our blu-ray movies shouldn't even be real. He was so wishy washy it was ridiculous. One minute lossless audio is great and there is a noticeable different, another post, naw it doesn't matter (gee, he's pushing a gimped HD DVD add-on that can't do lossless)..

[york weir]

Originally Posted by Monkey

He did himself confirm it at AVS, like I said after several members asked because he kept beating around the bush.



If you knew Amirm and his posting habits (long history of lies and deceit) you'd know it make sense to be skeptical of his constant bashing of blu-ray (numero uno viral marketer for HD DVD), Heck a large % of our blu-ray movies shouldn't even be real. He was so wishy washy it was ridiculous. One minute lossless audio is great and there is a noticeable different, another post, naw it doesn't matter (gee, he's pushing a gimped HD DVD add-on that can't do lossless)..

I've heard of him and the bashing he endured so jumped to conclusions that the only time to believe him is when it was convenient. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by york weir

I've heard of him and the bashing he endured so jumped to conclusions that the only time to believe him is when it was convenient. Perhaps I was mistaken.

It made sense to believe him in regards to the 360 limitations, it's not something he wanted out of the bag(as it was only damaging news). It didn't make sense to believe him that BD50 discs were science fiction due to other facts that had already been presented (also it wasn't his product HD DVD but his competitions).


It's not about convenience it's about what logically makes sense. Why would he lie about a feature being crippled on his product

[jamclaur]

Originally Posted by Forrestandjen07

He is talkng about releasing newer blu ray 360's

not about blu ray on the new Xbox all together

Try reading again, before coming so eager to bash at MS


ofcourse , saying that for the new xbox model 720 or whatever, would make 0 sense. but it makes perfect sense for coming out with a newer model of the 360 with a blu ray drive

and YOU should read what I wrote. I said a NEW system. If they added BD it would no longer be a 360 no matter what they wanted to name it or make it look like. It'd be a completely new system. Now a BD add-on for the 360 like the FAILED HD one might work until they jump the gun on the next terrible system they launch.

[xtop]

Originally Posted by jamclaur

that makes LESS than zero sense. NONE of the 360 games play on xbox... so why would the new system require a format that is compatible with the 360?

Originally Posted by jamclaur

and YOU should read what I wrote. I said a NEW system. If they added BD it would no longer be a 360 no matter what they wanted to name it or make it look like. It'd be a completely new system. Now a BD add-on for the 360 like the FAILED HD one might work until they jump the gun on the next terrible system they launch.

sorry jam..but i gotta say i have no idea what you're trying to say. why would adding blu-ray to the 360..magically no longer make it a 360?

[Anthony P]

I think the only true reason is 3.5

we want our fanboys to use DL. Like it was mentioned above
1) not enough people care
2) can only be for movies
3) the cost of the drive

where much more real for HD DVD (i.e. no one cared, could only be for movies and lost a bundle on the drive- which was odd for an accessory)
but then again the only reason MS supported HD DVD was to slow down BD adoption which brings us back to 3.5 that MS wants the death of disk based media so that we can become a DL world (DL to simple HDD device based on widows mobile OS)

[Anthony P]

It is not in MS's interest to announce that Blu-ray was actually a better bet than HD DVD right now. Not while 360 sales are still doing alright, it would dent their image and actually make that silly chart from SCE look relevant.

I dissagree, anyone with a brain knows it already and anyone that does not is most likely such a fanboy that they don't care.

[jamclaur]

Originally Posted by xtop

sorry jam..but i gotta say i have no idea what you're trying to say. why would adding blu-ray to the 360..magically no longer make it a 360?

If you create an external add-on like the HD-DVD one and you still play DVD games in the 360 then you have the same system with Blu-Ray compatibility.

If you take the 360, change the DVD function to Blu-Ray that's going to require internal changes to amp HP and graphics to make use of the BD. Then you're going to have to add HDMI use so you can get the complete functionality...

With all those changes it wont be a 360 anymore.

But like I said I think they're just being stupid about the add-on. There's NO reason they couldn't make one unless they're planning to unveil the Phoenix with internal BD support... Unless they're going to fore-go the DB usage and try for those stupid cartridge things they're putting music on now. I don't think we're ready for complete DL... Look at the most popular 360... it has NO hard-drive.

[xtop]

sorry but if they added more functionality to the 360..it's still a 360.

[jamclaur]

Originally Posted by xtop

sorry but if they added more functionality to the 360..it's still a 360.

That's not true at all. You take BD away from the PS3 is it STILL a ps3?

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by jamclaur

That's not true at all. You take BD away from the PS3 is it STILL a ps3?

that's not adding functionality. that's taking away. obviously if they took away dvd playability from the 360, is it still a 360? no, it's a brick.

[xtop]

Originally Posted by jamclaur

That's not true at all. You take BD away from the PS3 is it STILL a ps3?

so as sony adds more to the ps3, its no longer a ps3?

[Anthony P]

I've heard of him and the bashing he endured so jumped to conclusions that the only time to believe him is when it was convenient. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Amir, is not a technical person, he was a marketing person. The issue was that he would use double speak and BS and hyperboly to lead people astray. On the other hand when cornered and forced to respond (without the ability to circumvent the question) his answers where honest. He would post BS as long as he still had an out.

For example this one time the discussion (this was early-mid 2006 so forgive me if it is not 100% accurate) ended up becoming about multiple lossless tracks. Amir said something like since BD was 25GB and HD DVD 30GB, 5 GB left enough place for an extra lossless track and so it was more likely with HD DVD. Sounds good to anyone that believed that 50GB would never be there, but Darin and I where questioning him how would it be possible with BDs 48mbps vs HD DVDs 30mbps. The fight went on a bit and eventually (to prove us wrong) he finaly decided to ask someone who kew something about disks and that confirmed that we were right and the sum of all max's must be less then the max ( i.e. if we have two lossless tracks with 6mbps max then video+ subtitles+ PiP can't be allowed to go beyond 18mbps for HD DVD (which is not enough) while for BD you can reach 36mbps (which is more then HD DVD has to start off with). So he came back admitted we where right but then started immediately (and in the same post- even though he was arguing for multiple loss less tracks when he believed it to be an advantage over BD) to claim that multiple lossless tracks (and even any lossless track) was useless.

He did not say BD50 was impossible and we would never have BD50s, but he implied it using comments like “science fiction”, “only a few in a lab environment” and “30>25” any time BD50 was discussed to give the impression that BD50 was more fiction then something that we would ever see.