Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[stonesfan129]

Were Oppo players not also one of the most expensive? Not surprising they didn't sell.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Were Oppo players not also one of the most expensive? Not surprising they didn't sell.

The Oppo 203 cost $549 and the 205 cost $1,299, so, yes, they cost more than what the typical person would even consider and without any advertising, few were even aware of them. There are still some premium players out there that cost well above $500, but it appears that the market for them was overcrowded.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I still don't ever see the 5 major storefronts going subscription for new movies. I think it will always be movies or purchasing separately. Like Apple does with Apple Music and ITunes.

I think it’s going to be an exclusives war. Disney will have some pretty big hitters coming to their subscription service and they have a lot of pull. I wouldn’t be surprised if they squeeze the cinema chains and threaten to go direct to consumers with some of their very biggest hitters in the future. Maybe that model would be risky now but the landscape will look very different in a few years. Amazon and Netflix are already going that route. Apple will absolutely go the exclusive route and money won’t be a problem.
The likes of Vudu need to differentiate or they won’t keep up. Again, exclusives and a direct to consumer subscription will be needed. The film buying community is shrinking for discs AND Digital, Vudu I understand only have a very small slice of the pie, so going forward they will need something special lest they lose out completely.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Oppo having to stop selling their Players is a big surprise to me, I ranked them up there with Panasonic Players. You Disc people have to start to wonder the future of Discs. I think this is a big blow to their longevity. We discussed on this Thread Disc Quality in Streaming has been equaled, and the only remaining goal was UHD 4K. The max Bitrate Disc Quality for Blu-ray was a mere 40Mbps and UHD 4K came in at 128Mbps. You're right people are always looking for the best deals, but also the best product money can buy.

Wishful thinking on your part. Disc quality has not been equalled by the way. 4K discs are a thing now and trust me, you won’t be matching that in the foreseeable future. As for Blu-ray, I still say backgrounds are far more solid and artefact free than even the best 4K streaming. Although you guys have bug living rooms in the US, you sit about seven-ten feet away from your screens. No the wonder you don’t see artefacts.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Oppo shutting down its Audio/Video business will have no impact on the 4K UHD format. They offered a premium product that many people were not even aware existed and at a price most would never pay for a player. Oppo never did any advertising which only compounded their obscurity.

I gather Oppo is a Chinese company, but can I ask out of curiosity if anyone knows if their players are actually made in China? The only reason I ask is because generally speaking products manufactured in China are normally cheap and of dubious quality, so I'd have to take my hat off to them for producing such awesome equipment.

[IronSoldier]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Disc quality has not been equalled by the way. 4K discs are a thing now and trust me, you won’t be matching that in the foreseeable future.

Incorrect. Kaleidescape supply digital downloads which equal disc size and quality.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

Incorrect. Kaleidescape supply digital downloads which equal disc size and quality.

They do, but that’s not streaming, that’s just playing a 1:1 copy locally.


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[IronSoldier]

Originally Posted by zarquon

They do, but that’s not streaming, that’s just playing a 1:1 copy locally.

And in my books that delivery method is closer to streaming than buying a disc. You're owning a digital license, you're using an internet connection, you're getting the film from a server, as steel would point out.. at anypoint someone could revoke the ability to play and you'd lose it Hence to me all comes under the same digital genre this thread has discussed. Sure it may not be the average consumer grade apple tv 4k/netflix ect but neither is the oppo 205.

[tobz]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

And in my books that delivery method is closer to streaming than buying a disc. You're owning a digital license, you're using an internet connection, you're getting the film from a server, as steel would point out.. at anypoint someone could revoke the ability to play and you'd lose it Hence to me all comes under the same digital genre this thread has discussed. Sure it may not be the average consumer grade apple tv 4k/netflix ect but neither is the oppo 205.

Can't a Blu-Rays licence be revoked as well?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by tobz

Can't a Blu-Rays licence be revoked as well?

Not really - at least not in any way that is enforceable. A studio could arbitrarily declare that a license for an old release is no longer "valid," but they aren't going to be able to come into your home and take your disc away.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

Incorrect. Kaleidescape supply digital downloads which equal disc size and quality.

Not streaming though and UHD Disc goes to 128 Mbps compared to Kaleidoscope’s 100 Mbps so even if you want to take an extreme example, disc is still capable of higher bit rates

[IronSoldier]

Originally Posted by tobz

Can't a Blu-Rays licence be revoked as well?

In a sense yes but in reality no... all that'll do is stop it being sold until a new licence is active for that tite or they can revoke the certificate that a drive uses to play discs which will stop future releases from working. If you own a disc already and have a player it'll work indefinitely. Otherwise they'd have to visit your collection and take it away. Technically they could for future releases add internet key handling/verification. It's part of the spec for both aacs1 and aacs2 but not active or included in any titles at this time afaik. It's what the piracy/UHD disc ripping community had concerns would become active after they found a loophole but so far it's not been included. If it were you'd require online activation for each disc you'd play and receive keys to decrypt as it was played, should they wish to deactivate a title they'd simply deny the key request and that title could not be played. I doubt they'd ever do that as it would cause issues for so many.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Not streaming though and UHD Disc goes to 128 Mbps compared to Kaleidoscope’s 100 Mbps so even if you want to take an extreme example, disc is still capable of higher bit rates

But no discs are utilising the full 128Mbps so in my opinion that comparison is invalidated should I say well internet speeds can go up to 10Gbps at the moment so that's an even higher possible bitrate... Very few, if anyone has that though. Get my point? Not mentioning if a disc was a constant 128Mbps you'd only get 106 minutes of content on a 100gb disc. Kscape matches the disc file essentially bit for bit which was my point.

But yeah no one streams at the same bitrate at the moment because studios don't allow it due to piracy concerns alongside demand/availability. Disc wins. Kscape get away with downloads due to what is essentially £2000+ drm device for downloads, include audio and visual watermarks and charge insane prices. How long things are that way? Who knows. Back in 2008 streaming bitrates were perhaps 1/10th of the disk, they are now around 1/3 to 1/2 what the actual disc encode is when you look at ATV 4K titles for example.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

I gather Oppo is a Chinese company, but can I ask out of curiosity if anyone knows if their players are actually made in China? The only reason I ask is because generally speaking products manufactured in China are normally cheap and of dubious quality, so I'd have to take my hat off to them for producing such awesome equipment.

Oppo Digital is an independent division of Oppo which is in turn owned by BBK Electronics. Oppo Digital is based in Menlo Park, CA.

I do not know where the Opo 203/ 205 are manufactured, but there was nothing on the box that said it was made in any foreign country. I found no "Made In _" language in the manual, either. I did pose the question in the Oppo 203 thread and someone there will know.

Edit: The best reply came from forum member JohnAV, an Oppo Beta Tester: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6029

[Cutter_]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Oppo Digital is an independent division of Oppo which is in turn owned by BBK Electronics. Oppo Digital is based in Menlo Park, CA.

I do not know where the Opo 203/ 205 are manufactured, but there was nothing on the box that said it was made in any foreign country. I found no "Made In _" language in the manual, either. I did pose the question in the Oppo 203 thread and someone there will know.

Edit: The best reply came from forum member JohnAV, an Oppo Beta Tester: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6029

Everything Apple is made in China. So, they do good stuff. my iPhone's have always lasted.

[FilmEditor]

I watch online and then I have a private collection for titles I really like.

Only the best of the best get added to my physical media collection. And for those I will ALWAYS want physical.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Oppo Digital is an independent division of Oppo which is in turn owned by BBK Electronics. Oppo Digital is based in Menlo Park, CA.

I do not know where the Opo 203/ 205 are manufactured, but there was nothing on the box that said it was made in any foreign country. I found no "Made In _" language in the manual, either. I did pose the question in the Oppo 203 thread and someone there will know.

Edit: The best reply came from forum member JohnAV, an Oppo Beta Tester: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6029

Many thanks Vilya, and thank you also for the link to the reply.
I'm very tempted indeed to get the Oppo 203 before they sell out entirely.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

Many thanks Vilya, and thank you also for the link to the reply.
I'm very tempted indeed to get the Oppo 203 before they sell out entirely.

You are welcome.

It is a great machine and solidly built. The 203 weighs just a hair over 14 pounds; the massive 205 weighs over 30. All it is missing is a gun turret.

I am confident that this player will be fully supported for at least two years past the date of their last sale. Production ends this June, but how long supplies will last remains to be seen.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You are welcome.

It is a great machine and solidly built. The 203 weighs just a hair over 14 pounds; the massive 205 weighs over 30. All it is missing is a gun turret.

At the moment I have 2 Sony players, including the UBP-X800. I'm delighted with this one as it's a solid and a fairly heavy machine, plus it's very quiet in operation. In the other room where I have a second TV, there's another Sony machine which is older but still works well, but was thinking perhaps of putting the X800 here instead and the Oppo as my main machine in the sitting room.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

At the moment I have 2 Sony players, including the UBP-X800. I'm delighted with this one as it's a solid and a fairly heavy machine, plus it's very quiet in operation. In the other room where I have a second TV, there's another Sony machine which is older but still works well, but was thinking perhaps of putting the X800 here instead and the Oppo as my main machine in the sitting room.

I think you would be very happy with either of the Oppo 4K players. The video sections are the same on both models; the 205 is for audiophiles or for those who simply want the best of everything. I was tempted to get a 205, but age and my former employment have lessened my hearing acuity, so I felt its abilities would be wasted on me.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I think you would be very happy with either of the Oppo 4K players. The video sections are the same on both models; the 205 is for audiophiles or for those who simply want the best of everything. I was tempted to get a 205, but age and my former employment have lessened my hearing acuity, so I felt its abilities would be wasted on me.

The 205 certainly looks the business, no question about that, but I don't honestly think I could justify the extra cost, which is virtually double the price of the 203 (in the UK). The 203 is more reasonably priced at around £600-ish and am happy to pay that for a decent machine.

I also like the fact that the information is displayed on the front panel of the player - like the Sony DVD players used to be. Even on the X800, there is no front display telling you the running time on the film, for example, but instead you have to press 'Display' on the remote which will then give you the information on the TV screen.