Buying a 4K Blu-ray player soon. Best option?

[RustinCohle]

I was in no way trying to start any argument here. Just saying that LG has a DV ready player shipping out this week. Whereas the Sony player is just going to hopefully have an update at some point in the future.

Isn’t Sony still working on fixing the DV update they rolled out on their TVs though? That wouldn’t give me much hope for a DV update on one of their players.

[Geoff D]

The TV update is out there...it's other manufacturer's players that need an update to work with the TV update. When Sony finally update the X700 with DV then one hopes that their player will work with their TV. (It'll be interesting to see if this newer LG player and the upcoming Panasonic DV decks will support the Sony profile out of the box...I'm thinking no)

[RustinCohle]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The TV update is out there...it's other manufacturer's players that need an update to work with the TV update. When Sony finally update the X700 with DV then one hopes that their player will work with their TV. (It'll be interesting to see if this newer LG player and the upcoming Panasonic DV decks will support the Sony profile out of the box...I'm thinking no)

Why can’t everything just..work?

[jibucha]

LG 2018 UBK90 (it should be at the top of your list)

HDR10+ (nonsense)

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn

Hello all:

I'm moving in less than three weeks and am planning to buy a 4K Blu-ray player. I was eyeing getting the TCL C series down the line for the Dolby Vision capability, but it appears that this year is going to be the one for HDR10+.

However, I've seen now that there's a format war with HDR10+ and DV, and the Sony X700, which was what I had been eyeing, does not a date for the release of the DV firmware upgrade.

Is the X700 a good option if I'm looking for a decent unit on a budget, or is there another option reasonably priced/matched (LG, Panasonic, etc.) I should eye instead? I'm trying to stay under $300, albeit the one Panasonic that gets praised is something I'd consider springing for (despite it being almost twice the cost of the X700).

Furthermore, I was wondering if getting a modded unit off eBay for all region capabilities would block the ability to download a firmware update on the unit.

I'm also unsure about a TV, despite wanting the TCL, because I do not know if a TV will be out that does both DV and HDR10+. Will one come out, reasonably priced, or do I have to choose one?

Can anyone help out with any and/or all of this?

[jibucha]

so :: all manufacturers supporting the 'original full-profile' Dolby Vision, they are now required (forced) to 'support the unique Sony low-latency profile'? (how about Sony supporting the original industry standard; at least their 2018 products?)

now :: that 'really makes a lot of sense' to the industry, like the Samsung HDR10+ situation that might just fragment the industry

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The TV update is out there...it's other manufacturer's players that need an update to work with the TV update. When Sony finally update the X700 with DV then one hopes that their player will work with their TV. (It'll be interesting to see if this newer LG player and the upcoming Panasonic DV decks will support the Sony profile out of the box...I'm thinking no)

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

(It'll be interesting to see if this newer LG player and the upcoming Panasonic DV decks will support the Sony profile out of the box...I'm thinking no)

doubtful; why should they?

perhaps Sony should simply support the 'original full-profile Dolby Vision' as Dolby originally intended for industry-wide compatibility?

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by RustinCohle

Considering Sony promised DV on the X800 and it never happened

while it's true that Sony intended support (""unofficially"") for the UBP-X800, as they had thought Dolby Vision possible using their processor expertise (both the X1/player and the X1 Extreme/displays), in October 2017 they realized it was not possible and simply never '""officially""' came out about it, while finally officially indicating that it was not possible

note :: 4/26/18 @ 12am CST (US) :: several reps for Sony 'unofficially' have been quoted in both the US and Europe as i recall (i might even have links available, if i can locate them :: additionally, in the US, several reps for Sony on several occasions, indicated the same, that "when the display firmware updates were released for displays, a firmware update would also be available for the UBP-X800" (this was about a year ago now :: i personally had a conversation with a Sony rep in my area whom also confirmed this information (in about ten seconds i purchased the first of two of these players (the second that when the indicated Dolby Vision firmware update was released it was my intention to only update one, so that i could make HDR10 and Dolby Vision comparisons - subsequently, i also purchased two LG UP-970's and currently do these comparisons regularly - always learning)) ::

note :: 4/26/18 @ 12am CST (US) :: 'officially' Sony never acknowledged that Dolby Vision would be available on the Sony UBP-X800, but i do take issue with individuals indicating that purchasers, informed of this information, did so as a 'random uninformed gamble' which was not so (i am one of those individuals that purchased two, given the information)

for what its worth :: i am neither upset or disappointed, which just worked itself out that way :: most likely as the LG UP-970 has an improved picture quality in both SD/HD that they both support, with Dolby Vision unequaled, i find myself just 'not caring' one way or the other :: however, i am certain that there are many (worldwide) that are 'more than just a bit disappointed' which i completely understand and find myself sympathetic and understanding of their regrettable circumstance

furthermore, it was months later when they also realized the their intended display support was not possible

later still, they worked with Dolby for the non-processor centric support of Dolby Vision to provide the 'promised display support' of Dolby Vision; known as the 'low-latency profile' that is unique to Sony displays

what I find troubling, is that none of this supports their not using the required Dolby Vision video chipset on all 2018 products to maintain complete manufacturer compatibility of products and experience

this Sony low-latency profile of Dolby Vision should simply disappear at this point in time, and of course, Sony players should be expected to function completely with Sony displays (good luck with that), meaning that the UBP-X700 should be the 'escape solution' specifically for Sony displays currently and all forthcoming Sony products supporting Dolby Vision should simply 'move on' - """Back to the Future"""

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by RustinCohle

Why can’t everything just..work?

That's the $64,000 question, and it's been the bane of home cinema enthusiasts everywhere for the last few decades.

Originally Posted by jibucha

so :: all manufacturers supporting the 'original full-profile' Dolby Vision, they are now required (forced) to 'support the unique Sony low-latency profile'? (how about Sony supporting the original industry standard; at least their 2018 products?)

now :: that 'really makes a lot of sense' to the industry, like the Samsung HDR10+ situation that might just fragment the industry

Originally Posted by jibucha

doubtful; why should they?

perhaps Sony should simply support the 'original full-profile Dolby Vision' as Dolby originally intended for industry-wide compatibility?

Two posts, one answer: this new profile may well have been developed just for Sony but it's been integrated into the DV system and is open for others to use in future. Its main benefit is obvious: less processing strain on the playback device. That isn't a problem for TV manufacturers who don't hobble their hardware, natch, but in future it could lead to more lower-spec TVs being able to include DV (I don't mean via firmware updates, I mean newer models outright).

As it's been integrated into DV as a new profile then one would hope that any upcoming DV playback device would come with the low-latency version out of the box, the onus therefore being on Dolby to supply the relevant code/algorithms to the manufacturers as they're building their players, who can then implement it and pass the device back to Dolby for certification (which is standard operating procedure with any DV enabled devices).

But because most of the players that are due imminently will have had their designs and SoC and whatnot laid down during 2017 then this low-latency version only getting finalised in early 2018 may have come too late to include, aside from Sony's X700 of course which will shirley have the low-latency version included when it finally gets updated in "summer 2018". (The X700 was apparently feeding DV to a ZD9 at CES this year, for what that's worth.) It'll be a nice surprise if the new LG and Panny spinners do support the low-latency version though!

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by jibucha

so :: all manufacturers supporting the 'original full-profile' Dolby Vision, they are now required (forced) to 'support the unique Sony low-latency profile'? (how about Sony supporting the original industry standard; at least their 2018 products?)

It’s predicted by our Retail Insider here, that Sony 2018 displays will indeed support Full-profile DV. Source: I believe Sony told him at CES.

So, it’s just the 2016/2017 tv’s with X-1 Extreme chips that are in the stranded low-latency twilight zone.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

That's so weird. I've never heard of an instance where an internationally outsourced customer service representative had no idea what they were talking about.

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's the $64,000 question, and it's been the bane of home cinema enthusiasts everywhere for the last few decades.





Two posts, one answer: this new profile may well have been developed just for Sony but it's been integrated into the DV system and is open for others to use in future. Its main benefit is obvious: less processing strain on the playback device. That isn't a problem for TV manufacturers who don't hobble their hardware, natch, but in future it could lead to more lower-spec TVs being able to include DV (I don't mean via firmware updates, I mean newer models outright).

As it's been integrated into DV as a new profile then one would hope that any upcoming DV playback device would come with the low-latency version out of the box, the onus therefore being on Dolby to supply the relevant code/algorithms to the manufacturers as they're building their players, who can then implement it and pass the device back to Dolby for certification (which is standard operating procedure with any DV enabled devices).

But because most of the players that are due imminently will have had their designs and SoC and whatnot laid down during 2017 then this low-latency version only getting finalised in early 2018 may have come too late to include, aside from Sony's X700 of course which will shirley have the low-latency version included when it finally gets updated in "summer 2018". (The X700 was apparently feeding DV to a ZD9 at CES this year, for what that's worth.) It'll be a nice surprise if the new LG and Panny spinners do support the low-latency version though!

simple enough? :: multiple Dolby Vision profiles are entirely unnecessary causing an extension as 'of the multiple HDR formats'

if you disagree, that's fine, but i am confidant of many thinking otherwise

regarding processing, one way or another processor power is required; whether in the display or player - the the Sony X1 Extreme (displays) and the Sony X1 (players) could not pull it off is clear; where does your point land?

while the exact functionally of players supporting the 'Sony low-latency profile' (and, what about the 'original full-profile Dolby Vision' support?) is still unclear to me currently at this point in time, what is 'definite' is that either profile requires the Dolby Vision video chipset (is this simple 'fact' recognized/ignored?) - which brings 'everything back to the beginning', support of the original full-profile Dolby Vision

clearly there is no need/benefit of the 'Sony unique low-latency profile', with the single exception of supporting """Sony""" (otherwise 'crippled displays') - seems to me that this is quite clear

what is not clear, is that it is not recognized for what it is, and that it's rationalized into 'confusing areas' unnecessarily

"there are many surprises ahead" (not necessarily enjoyable)

and, to the point, use of the Dolby Vision video chipset obviates the 'processing issues you accounted for' prior to Sony 'trying to avoid implementing it (chipset/licensing) into their displays/players, which is the cause of this issue

use of the Dolby Vision video chipset in displays/players avoids exactly the issue of the display/player processor(s) having any additional 'load'

it's clear to me that Dolby considered all these issues from the beginning

it's not 'really that confusing' when the 'facts/history are considered/recognized'

Sony miscalculated, unfortunately so, and i am a fan of Sony, but not 'recognizing all this for what it is' is simply unfair, by any measure

question? - 'very seriously' - why should this stupidity continue? - going forward, why not simply have the industry support a 'single Dolby Vision profile' as originally intended by Dolby? - i am guessing many will find issue with this but continued controversy relating to this simply bores me'

question? (yet again) 'very seriously' - ((lets just forget about Samsung and their supporters, especially)) - perhaps the industry 'should have' simply united behind Dolby Vision from the beginning as a single "format" recognizing the benefits to (picture quality/consumers/manufacturers) and 'paid' Dolby 'fairly' for their ''efforts"? - would not the benefits, that will one day be recognized have been in the interests of 'all'? (one format - one profile???)

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

this new profile may well have been developed just for Sony but it's been integrated into the DV system and is open for others to use in future. Its main benefit is obvious: less processing strain on the playback device.

that's simply untrue

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As it's been integrated into DV as a new profile then one would hope that any upcoming DV playback device would come with the low-latency version out of the box, the onus therefore being on Dolby to supply the relevant code/algorithms to the manufacturers as they're building their players, who can then implement it and pass the device back to Dolby for certification (which is standard operating procedure with any DV enabled devices).

why unnecessarily complicate things?

already, without this 'further complication' firmware updates and support has taken a toll on everyone; has it not?

point :: more profiles, means more testing/etc, which means more delays; doe it not?


i think :: Sony should simply make Sony players for Sony displays; why not? (that solve one problem; does it not?)

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by jibucha

simple enough? :: multiple Dolby Vision profiles are entirely unnecessary causing an extension as 'of the multiple HDR formats'

if you disagree, that's fine, but i am confidant of many thinking otherwise

regarding processing, one way or another processor power is required; whether in the display or player - the the Sony X1 Extreme (displays) and the Sony X1 (players) could not pull it off is clear; where does your point land?

while the exact functionally of players supporting the 'Sony low-latency profile' (and, what about the 'original full-profile Dolby Vision' support?) is still unclear to me currently at this point in time, what is 'definite' is that either profile requires the Dolby Vision video chipset (is this simple 'fact' recognized/ignored?) - which brings 'everything back to the beginning', support of the original full-profile Dolby Vision

clearly there is no need/benefit of the 'Sony unique low-latency profile', with the single exception of supporting """Sony""" (otherwise 'crippled displays') - seems to me that this is quite clear

what is not clear, is that it is not recognized for what it is, and that it's rationalized into 'confusing areas' unnecessarily

"there are many surprises ahead" (not necessarily enjoyable)

and, to the point, use of the Dolby Vision video chipset obviates the 'processing issues you accounted for' prior to Sony 'trying to avoid implementing it (chipset/licensing) into their displays/players, which is the cause of this issue

use of the Dolby Vision video chipset in displays/players avoids exactly the issue of the display/player processor(s) having any additional 'load'

it's clear to me that Dolby considered all these issues from the beginning

it's not 'really that confusing' when the 'facts/history are considered/recognized'

Just to clarify, Dolby abandoned the 'dedicated DV chipset' thing at some point in the last 12 to 18 months, AS LONG AS the main SoC that powers the TV has enough processing power in reserve to process the DV dynamic metadata along with the main TV HDR10 functions. Evidently, this is where the Sony 2017 X-1 Extreme chips (SoC) fell short, and the Low-Latency profile was developed by Dolby and released to Sony for implementation.

A player has to process more of the metadata load before passing it to the low-latency version, which the final picture is displayed. At CES time there was discussion that gaming in HDR/DV might benefit long-term from the low-latency configuration.

To quote you "use of the Dolby Vision video chipset in displays/players avoids exactly the issue of the display/player processor(s) having any additional 'load'", if you can document any TV manufacturers that actually have a TV with dedicated chipset, please let the rest of us know, as I have not seen a list or spec that says a TV has this chipset. It's starting to sound like an urban legend at this point.

AS I stated in my previous posting here, Sony says they will be able to use the Full- Profile DV spec in their 2018 X-1 Extreme TV's, how they're doing that has been left unsaid. The DV update for 2018 TV's has not been released, nor has the X700 player DV update released yet as you have noted. So 2018 is still up in the air.

Really not sure why this seems to be causing consternation for you this far into this, a lot of us are still unhappy with the delay, but have moved on to other steps in acceptance. An update for my Oppo might be here in the next few weeks so I can watch some of my 20 (more or less) DV discs on my Z9D - esp. Star Wars! Looking on the brighter side

[Mike Flynn]

Originally Posted by jibucha

LG 2018 UBK90 (it should be at the top of your list)

HDR10+ (nonsense)

Seems cut and dry.

The UBK90 seems to be my best bet.

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Just to clarify, Dolby abandoned the 'dedicated DV chipset' thing at some point in the last 12 to 18 months,

i disagree; that makes 'no sense - at all'

i am aware of a 'co-existing software implementation' but not 'replacement'

perhaps that development of the 'software implementation is what Sony was 'counting on; i do not know though?

i am in the process of clarifying the facts in this regard and will update when i am certain of the 'facts' (until then, i do not wish to 'discuss this issue further')

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by gkolb

AS I stated in my previous posting here, Sony says they will be able to use the Full- Profile DV spec in their 2018 X-1 Extreme TV's, how they're doing that has been left unsaid. The DV update for 2018 TV's has not been released, nor has the X700 player DV update released yet as you have noted. So 2018 is still up in the air.

please provide documentation of this information (kindly)

i have information confirming use of the 'video chipset' in the Sony UBP-X700, but any such implementation in their displays (2018 X700F Series) is news to me

furthermore, if relying on the software implementation, then it should be available on any Sony display with the X1 Extreme (2016-2018);do you disagree?

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Really not sure why this seems to be causing consternation for you this far into this, a lot of us are still unhappy with the delay, but have moved on to other steps in acceptance. An update for my Oppo might be here in the next few weeks so I can watch some of my 20 (more or less) DV discs on my Z9D - esp. Star Wars! Looking on the brighter side

confusion of the facts is 'always an issue for me'; it leads to 'further complications' in time

making decisions and having 'clear comprehension of the facts' always is important (to me) - technology is difficult enough without confusion interjected

make sense? (consternation?)

and :: 'i think that the delays are just beginning' which is 'all related'; is it not?

Oppo support (promised) :: i see that as a good thing for Sony display owners (no disagreement) - (please keep in mind that i do like Sony displays, but do to this 'low-latency profile' situation, simply cannot purchase one for my personal use; it's that simple) :: Sony has a lot going for it, but with regards to Dolby Vision (as i see it); certainly not (perhaps in 2019 displays? - i might change my thinking)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Just to clarify, Dolby abandoned the 'dedicated DV chipset' thing at some point in the last 12 to 18 months, AS LONG AS the main SoC that powers the TV has enough processing power in reserve to process the DV dynamic metadata along with the main TV HDR10 functions. Evidently, this is where the Sony 2017 X-1 Extreme chips (SoC) fell short, and the Low-Latency profile was developed by Dolby and released to Sony for implementation.

A player has to process more of the metadata load before passing it to the low-latency version, which the final picture is displayed. At CES time there was discussion that gaming in HDR/DV might benefit long-term from the low-latency configuration.

To quote you "use of the Dolby Vision video chipset in displays/players avoids exactly the issue of the display/player processor(s) having any additional 'load'", if you can document any TV manufacturers that actually have a TV with dedicated chipset, please let the rest of us know, as I have not seen a list or spec that says a TV has this chipset. It's starting to sound like an urban legend at this point.

AS I stated in my previous posting here, Sony says they will be able to use the Full- Profile DV spec in their 2018 X-1 Extreme TV's, how they're doing that has been left unsaid. The DV update for 2018 TV's has not been released, nor has the X700 player DV update released yet as you have noted. So 2018 is still up in the air.

Really not sure why this seems to be causing consternation for you this far into this, a lot of us are still unhappy with the delay, but have moved on to other steps in acceptance. An update for my Oppo might be here in the next few weeks so I can watch some of my 20 (more or less) DV discs on my Z9D - esp. Star Wars! Looking on the brighter side

Yep, spot on. There's no need for a "DV chipset" any more, it can be done in software. Oh look, here's a link stating exactly that from Feb last year:

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...compatible-kit

Forbes writer John Archer quotes Dolby as saying “There are implementations that can run Dolby Vision in software, certainly in the console space but also in the TV SoC space."

"Specifics vary on a case-by-case basis depending on the hardware capability of the silicon in question, but we have development kits for various types of implementations, depending on the application: full hardware, hybrid of software and hardware or [and this is the crucial bit] full software.”

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by jibucha

simple enough? :: multiple Dolby Vision profiles are entirely unnecessary causing an extension as 'of the multiple HDR formats'

I'll just reply to this as the rest is sheer waffle: You do know that Dolby have had multiple DV profiles available from the start...right? There's not "one profile" and there never has been e.g. the single layer streaming version that uses ICtCp, the dual layer UHD Blu version using conventional YCbCr, single layer version that uses YCbCr and is backwards compatible with PQ10 (HDR10 minus metadata, handy for live broadcast), a version that uses an 8-bit delivery stream rather than 10-bit, even a version that can downconvert to a HLG-compatible signal rather than PQ etc etc etc.

They came up with a variety of profiles to fit a variety of scenarios, and one of the reasons why people like Penton champion Dolby like they do is because this company does not rest on its laurels when it comes to HDR development, they're always looking at new ways of refining their work and how it is deployed, and this new low-latency version fits right in with that ethos. Has it caused a bit of a kerfuffle? Absotruthly. Will it matter in a year's time when this profile will be programmed in as standard feature on all new devices that relay DV content? Nah.

Simple answer: relax, guy!