Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Groot

Exactly.

VHS became DVD which became Blu-ray, now it’s UHD and 4K content, as well as digital. I paid $50-100 for VHS back in the day, didn’t last my lifetime. I paid similar amounts for DVDs, didn’t last my lifetime. I bought some Blus a few years ago that already got 4K remasters, now I buy digital content too. I have some of the same films more than a handful of times. Some of those VHS movies never got upgraded or nothing past the DVD that are now obscure or overpriced. I don’t expect anything to last me my entire life and I’m cool with buying content again. Plus the lost content from yesteryears can be replaced with new. Rinse and Repeat.

Exactly. I can't tell you how much I paid for multiple formats in the past that I can either stream or purchase physically at a fraction of the cost. So why limit myself?

Originally Posted by Vilya

Contribute more and make it better then.

I like reading your comments despite how seldom I agree with them. I bet other people like reading them, too.

YES, help bring back some balance to the thread. Because people are mixing up their facts with their preferences.

[Vilya]

^ I really enjoy Supernatural and Mark Sheppard is fantastic in his role! Still need to watch season 12.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

^ I really enjoy Supernatural and Mark Sheppard is fantastic in his role! Still need to watch season 12.

Love Mark Sheppard, but haven't watched the series. We watched it initially, but it had a Roswell feel to it. I've heard it improved over the seasons though. I'll eventually get around to it.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

[Show spoiler]

Exactly. I can't tell you how much I paid for multiple formats in the past that I can either stream or purchase physically at a fraction of the cost. So why limit myself?

+1 for Wonka. (My favorite film)

That's the point I was trying to make. I have discs, I have digital. Hell, I've got some VHS in the basement I didn't sell off years ago. I have bought and re-brought most of my collection at least 3 times (newer films aside of course) and buying digital and in the future getting some other format or media delivery system will happen and it'll start all over.

Licensing, life-span of the media and devices, changing markets, it's all a growing and changing field right now. Just like how DMCA didn't exist until 98 and still hasn't fully caught up to infringements, the first sale part of copyright law will catch up soon enough and all this is gonna be a wash out. Even big IP firms expect a push back from consumers if Disney tries to extend copyright again. In a few months 1923 is an open field and it will keep ticking off after that. I would expect, once 109 is opened for public comments, pro-consumer groups will be there to make sure that the laws are more explanatory for this market and no one will have to be this upset over digital rights. States are already ahead of the curve when it comes to transferring between heirs or estates upon death, just gotta get it more cut and dry for TFSD.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Vilya

^ I really enjoy Supernatural and Mark Sheppard is fantastic in his role! Still need to watch season 12.

I am actually re watching supernatural hammer of the gods while reading these comments.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Groot

But they sure as hell can stop making Blu Ray players and make old models incompatible with future TVs. What do we do at that point?

Originally Posted by Vilya

Sure, but unlike with these EULAs that is not a clearly stated risk, is it? EULAs tell you what they can do in direct language. It is not a risk I have to conjure up with my imagination; the EULAs tell you the risk to your face.

There are already so many blu-ray players in existence that the used market would flourish for many years if new players were no longer manufactured. Plus, they are incredibly durable. I have no worries about the hardware disappearing. I can still buy laserdisc players!

You Disc guys are grasping at straws now, the Studios just want to sell Movies they don't want to take anything away. You can play Old Discs on Old Players on your Old HDTV, but I doubt you'll be able to or want to connect it up to your 16K or 32K TV! Also Old Classic Movies keep upgrading to the new format, and if you're like most you'll want to watch them in the latest format.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You Disc guys are grasping at straws now, the Studios just want to sell Movies they don't want to take anything away. You can play Old Discs on Old Players on your Old HDTV, but I doubt you'll be able to or want to connect it up to your 16K or 32K TV! Also Old Classic Movies keep upgrading to the new format, and if you're like most you'll want to watch them in the latest format.

Not a disc guy...or a guy. I was using that as an example for them saying they can take digital away, in the same regard they could theoretically make players unusable on future televisions. It was just an illustrative point that they technically always have control, just in different ways.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

This thread is insufferable

Yet you carry on visiting, carry on posting etc..

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Groot

Keep telling me what do and how to act and I will get more and more obnoxious because a man behind a keyboard isn’t going to dictate how I respond to a discussion.

Whatever you say. Stay classy!

Anyone who posts supporting digital in this thread gets attacked. Members are even mocked for their setups. People are ignorant of costs and licensing yet sprout off stupidity of what they don’t know.

Not necessarily. It's true that there is some harshness towards the digital side, but mostly when ridiculous claims are being made.

TheDonster, for instance, has made many pro digital statements (he uses a mix of both physical and digital). There are definitely things that he and I disagree on, but in general our discussion in this thread towards each other has been very civil.

In general most any "attacks" on people's set ups have been few and far between, and not without some context to them. I certainly don't have the fanciest or absolutely most current of set ups, but it's not super outdated either.


But there are certain individuals (mainly one in particular) that like to make blanket statements about digital meeting the quality of the best available discs in all capacities, disc being dead, yadda yadda yadda, all while apparently using a sound system that is at least a few decades old.

If someone is happy using a sound system that old, or not having the fanciest HDTV on the market, that's fine. But to make blanket definitive statements on such things all while not even having at least a decent, moderate , relative current (within the last few years, at minimum the last decade) sound system to reasonably discern if the audio, for example, is anywhere near equal is kind of ridiculous.

And many people on the digital side of things have also taken issue with said individual.


Generally speaking, for those of us on the physical side of the debate, the issue does come down to the concerns of long term access. And too many people just assume nothing can or will likely ever go wrong.

Though you've made some similar assertions in that regard, I at least give you credit for the fact that you acknowledge that if such a scenario were to occur, you are fine with it, and therefore are going into this with that mentality. I, of course, significantly disagree with that view point, but at least you are able to look at it from that perspective and acknowledge how you would take such an occurrence.

Too many people on the digital side of things just insist that this can't and won't happen to such an extent that they even refuse to acknowledge the possibility even as a hypothetical scenario, and how they would react as a result. They are just dead set on believing it can't happen, even though the agreements expressly state the provider's right to do so. It's ostrich syndrome to the extreme.

And even on the physical end of things, there are some whose view points are rather "out there." While I agree with Steedeel on many things, some of his concerns about the future go to the utmost extreme, worrying about thing like large TVs going away completely and everyone watching content on smart-watches and the like. And many people on both "sides" have replied about how "out there" those views are.

I’ll freely laugh and mock someone whining over the loss of Amazon Prime streaming of the Kardashians if that’s the base example of the sky is falling on digital ownership.

There's more of that sophisticated classiness that you demonstrated earlier!

It didn’t take it off the available lists of those who bought it, you just can’t buy it on there now. Big deal. You wanna get bent over the idea that some media may be gone in the future, feel free, but just accept that a large portion of society doesn’t care and most are turning to instant gratification media like YouTube if under a certain age group.

Well that are all kinds of issues with modern instant gratification (well above and beyond how it effects watching movies and TV) that are concerning to say the least...

Simon Sinek on Millennials in the Workplace - YouTube

Sure, a large portion of society doesn't care.

A large portion of society isn't even able to name many top government officials.

A few years back a large portion of society didn't know that they weren't getting an HD picture when connecting a Blu-Ray player, PS3, or other HD device to their HDTV using composite cables.

A large portion of society jumps into mob mentality on social media and take anything that they find even mildly offensive (even if it is only offensive when taken out of context) and blow it up into the biggest problem that has ever occurred in the history of all time.... at least until the next thing comes along that they do the same thing with.

Film preservation and access to those films should not be based exclusively around such people.

Originally Posted by Groot

Exactly.

VHS became DVD which became Blu-ray, now it’s UHD and 4K content, as well as digital. I paid $50-100 for VHS back in the day, didn’t last my lifetime. I paid similar amounts for DVDs, didn’t last my lifetime. I bought some Blus a few years ago that already got 4K remasters, now I buy digital content too. I have some of the same films more than a handful of times. Some of those VHS movies never got upgraded or nothing past the DVD that are now obscure or overpriced. I don’t expect anything to last me my entire life and I’m cool with buying content again. Plus the lost content from yesteryears can be replaced with new. Rinse and Repeat.

Those aren't really examples of things not "lasting" forever. That is you choosing to upgrade to the next format. It doesn't mean that those previous versions just stopped working.

There are many titles that I have happily repurchased in the next format to get the increased quality, and many more that I will do the same with over time going forward.

But not all content necessarily comes out on the next format right away, if ever. I have movies on DVD that haven't made it to Blu-Ray, or digital distribution in any capacity (let alone HD). I would prefer to have them on Blu-Ray, but I will still happily watch the DVD if that is my only option.

And we are very much getting to a point where the law of diminishing returns it becoming more relevant that ever. There's really only so much that can be done to increase picture and sound quality beyond the limits of what is available now to any degree that is significantly noticeable and desirable to most people, even many of those who have repeatedly and happily upgraded in the past.

Originally Posted by Groot

+1 for Wonka. (My favorite film)

I'm sure there are people who would freely mock you for that being your favorite movie (just like you mocking anyone concerned over the Kardashians content). While I'm not actually mocking you for it (while far from being my "favorite," I do like the movie and have it in my collection), I could see that getting at least a few raised eyebrows.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Groot

Plus the lost content from yesteryears can be replaced with new. Rinse and Repeat.

If the changes over the past several decades are any indication, chances are yesteryear's content will be less likely to fade into oblivion moving forward.

Over the years broadcasting has become narrower and narrower and while that might have its own issues, it allows less popular material to be profitably marketed and delivered to smaller and smaller segments of the public.

There's an amazing array of content available at ridiculously affordable prices these days and there's little to no reason to think that's going to change any time soon.

As technology improves and delivery costs decrease it should become easier and easier for the owners of various properties to monetize their libraries including those properties that can't support any kind of mass media release.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by veritas

I am actually re watching supernatural hammer of the gods while reading these comments.

Season 5 was a great one; some felt that the show should have ended with it, but I am very happy, and surprised, that it is now in its 13th season with a 14th expected.

Crowley is awesome in this show and more of him is most welcome!

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Whatever you say. Stay classy!





Not necessarily. It's true that there is some harshness towards the digital side, but mostly when ridiculous claims are being made.

TheDonster, for instance, has made many pro digital statements (he uses a mix of both physical and digital). There are definitely things that he and I disagree on, but in general our discussion in this thread towards each other has been very civil.

In general most any "attacks" on people's set ups have been few and far between, and not without some context to them. I certainly don't have the fanciest or absolutely most current of set ups, but it's not super outdated either.


But there are certain individuals (mainly one in particular) that like to make blanket statements about digital meeting the quality of the best available discs in all capacities, disc being dead, yadda yadda yadda, all while apparently using a sound system that is at least a few decades old.

If someone is happy using a sound system that old, or not having the fanciest HDTV on the market, that's fine. But to make blanket definitive statements on such things all while not even having at least a decent, moderate , relative current (within the last few years, at minimum the last decade) sound system to reasonably discern if the audio, for example, is anywhere near equal is kind of ridiculous.

And many people on the digital side of things have also taken issue with said individual.


Generally speaking, for those of us on the physical side of the debate, the issue does come down to the concerns of long term access. And too many people just assume nothing can or will likely ever go wrong.

Though you've made some similar assertions in that regard, I at least give you credit for the fact that you acknowledge that if such a scenario were to occur, you are fine with it, and therefore are going into this with that mentality. I, of course, significantly disagree with that view point, but at least you are able to look at it from that perspective and acknowledge how you would take such an occurrence.

Too many people on the digital side of things just insist that this can't and won't happen to such an extent that they even refuse to acknowledge the possibility even as a hypothetical scenario, and how they would react as a result. They are just dead set on believing it can't happen, even though the agreements expressly state the provider's right to do so. It's ostrich syndrome to the extreme.

And even on the physical end of things, there are some whose view points are rather "out there." While I agree with Steedeel on many things, some of his concerns about the future go to the utmost extreme, worrying about thing like large TVs going away completely and everyone watching content on smart-watches and the like. And many people on both "sides" have replied about how "out there" those views are.





There's more of that sophisticated classiness that you demonstrated earlier!



Well that are all kinds of issues with modern instant gratification (well above and beyond how it effects watching movies and TV) that are concerning to say the least...

Simon Sinek on Millennials in the Workplace - YouTube


Sure, a large portion of society doesn't care.

A large portion of society isn't even able to name many top government officials.

A few years back a large portion of society didn't know that they weren't getting an HD picture when connecting a Blu-Ray player, PS3, or other HD device to their HDTV using composite cables.

A large portion of society jumps into mob mentality on social media and take anything that they find even mildly offensive (even if it is only offensive when taken out of context) and blow it up into the biggest problem that has ever occurred in the history of all time.... at least until the next thing comes along that they do the same thing with.

Film preservation and access to those films should not be based exclusively around such people.



Those aren't really examples of things not "lasting" forever. That is you choosing to upgrade to the next format. It doesn't mean that those previous versions just stopped working.

There are many titles that I have happily repurchased in the next format to get the increased quality, and many more that I will do the same with over time going forward.

But not all content necessarily comes out on the next format right away, if ever. I have movies on DVD that haven't made it to Blu-Ray, or digital distribution in any capacity (let alone HD). I would prefer to have them on Blu-Ray, but I will still happily watch the DVD if that is my only option.

And we are very much getting to a point where the law of diminishing returns it becoming more relevant that ever. There's really only so much that can be done to increase picture and sound quality beyond the limits of what is available now to any degree that is significantly noticeable and desirable to most people, even many of those who have repeatedly and happily upgraded in the past.

What you edited it so I'm no longer a classy guy but I still get the jerk-off emoji? Nice. Not sexist at all.


VHS may not have stopped working but unless I want to watch the Lion King like it's an animated snuff film, upgrading was a good option. Being able to go get naked and stream a movie on my iPad Pro in my bath-tub makes digital a fun, frisky option.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You Disc guys are grasping at straws now, the Studios just want to sell Movies they don't want to take anything away. You can play Old Discs on Old Players on your Old HDTV, but I doubt you'll be able to or want to connect it up to your 16K or 32K TV! Also Old Classic Movies keep upgrading to the new format, and if you're like most you'll want to watch them in the latest format.

Nobody will be able to tell the difference between a 4k and 16k television till its like 300 inches. You also cant get above 4k worth of data off most film prints and digitally the compression would kill any possible gains anyway. Unless your not planning on watching any films made before like 2040 ever again physical will still be the highest quality format in the land (unless they make worthless upscales like they often do with 4k).

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I'm sure there are people who would freely mock you for that being your favorite movie (just like you mocking anyone concerned over the Kardashians content). While I'm not actually mocking you for it (while far from being my "favorite," I do like the movie and have it in my collection), I could see that getting at least a few raised eyebrows.

You want to know the difference between me and those getting upset at me laughing at them for getting upset over the Kardashians? It should be obvious, I'm a smartass who doesn't care what you think about what I like or...me in general for that matter.

Oh, look at her, she likes Gene Wilder movies and not shows about ******. TeeHee.

Sorry, I'm blank here buddy.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

What you edited it so I'm no longer a classy guy but I still get the jerk-off emoji? Nice. Not sexist at all.


VHS may not have stopped working but unless I want to watch the Lion King like it's an animated snuff film, upgrading was a good option. Being able to go get naked and stream a movie on my iPad Pro in my bath-tub makes digital a fun, frisky option.

So far, that has been my one digital experience. Streaming a episode of Stranger things while naked. I got a few funny looks off other passengers but what can you do?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by veritas

Nobody will be able to tell the difference between a 4k and 16k television till its like 300 inches. You also cant get above 4k worth of data off most film prints and digitally the compression would kill any possible gains anyway. Unless your not planning on watching any films made before like 2040 ever again physical will still be the highest quality format in the land (unless they make worthless upscales like they often do with 4k).

8K and beyond will be essential for AR and VR.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Unless you can legally sell your digital copies the problem still exists that once something is no longer officially offered for sale no can possibly buy it.

I think the absolute best solution would be an "abandonware" law. If a particular movie, TV show, video game, song, etc... is no longer available to buy or rent from the copyright holders then it should be legal for anyone to share it.

Well, that can actually already happen under the law. If a copyright or trademark is abandoned, anyone can revive it. Those are referred to as abandoned or orphaned works. You can buy these cheap, similar to how patent trolls operate, or if you cannot identify the owners you can apply for an exemption and take over the rights.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Groot

What you edited it so I'm no longer a classy guy but I still get the jerk-off emoji? Nice. Not sexist at all.

I removed the word guy after seeing your other post in which you stated you are not a guy. So I changed that for accuracy.

The emoji was in response the tone of your statement. That still applied regardless of your gender, therefore I didn't change it.

In other words, I treated you the same regardless of your gender. How exactly is that sexist?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Contribute more and make it better then.

I like reading your comments despite how seldom I agree with them. I bet other people like reading them, too.

It's taking me forever to catch up.

It's gone up 6 or 7 pages in the past day , and many of those include Dynamo's wall of texts bigger than the one the Night's Watch guards in Game of Thrones

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yet you carry on visiting, carry on posting etc..

It's gotten worse since the subforum change

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by flyry

It's taking me forever to catch up.

It's gone up 6 pages in the past day , and many of those include Dynamo's wall of texts bigger than the one the Night's Watch guards in Game of Thrones

My walls of text are only bigger than the Night's Watch guards in Game of Thrones? Dang, I thought I had surpassed that by a much wider margin. I'll try harder to make them much longer.