Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Apple's support is not spicifically for Sony, they just have good support for all standards.

so :: with your retail expertise and industry contacts; whom, other than Apple (Apple TV 4K) and Sony (displays?) currently have products in the marketplace supporting this 'low-latency profile', that you represent as a 'standard', completely disregarding the 'industry standard - original full-profile'? :: additionally, other than an Apple device on an Sony display; please enlighten me (specifically, what display other then the known Sony displays with the X1 Extreme processor, currently have support for this "standard"?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by jibucha

please inform :: regarding the 'low-latency profile' (whom was using it prior to Sony? :: is it not so, that Apple was the first and only manufacturer to support it (even Sony does not currently, nor any other manufacturer for that matter)

I would have thought you be better informed. iTunes DV streaming only involves a single layer. It doesn't have the enhancement layer/meta data that a UHD BD uses over HDMI. Now can we return to the thread topic.

[Robert Zohn]

Samsung developed HDR10+ as a new HDR system on their own. Not sure of the reasons, but many speculate that Samsung did not want to pay Dolby royalties.

Dolby Vision's HDR low latency is used in PC games and now has the potential to expand to more gaming systems. Low latency is a standard developed by Dolby labs and is available to all Dolby Vision licensees.

When Sony adopted low latency they were not aware the standard would not work with all DV capable BD player. In fact, I was the first person to tell Sony engineers that their DV capable TVs were not working with DV devices connected via HDMI.

Other than my technical background, I enjoy a life style of honesty and integrity above all. I'm the president of the Rotary Club of Scarsdale and recipient of the highest award when I was inaugurated as a Paul Harris Fellow.

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I would have thought you be better informed. iTunes DV streaming only involves a single layer. It doesn't have the enhancement layer/meta data that a UHD BD uses over HDMI. Now can we return to the thread topic.

note :: just another 'confusing the issue' (point should be clear; whom did you intend this to help?) :: primarily, this revolves around the issues of player support for Dolby Vision, and of course, relevant display issues, and this is 'relevant to the thread topic; thank you

i am 'quite informed'; thank you

note :: Apple TV 4K (support) was not the 'primary point', only linked to exchanges by Robert Zohn (originally - it was his point of support, not mine) - is that not so?

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Yes, Sony's UBP-700 will support DV low latency and the UBP-700 will work on all TV brands and models that have DV enabled with and without low latency and of course HDR10 will work perfectly

Thank you, Robert. This is the first time that I have learned the x700 will have no problem playing DV on non-Sony TVs (when the update comes)

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Samsung developed HDR10+ as a new HDR system on their own. Not sure of the reasons, but many speculate that Samsung did not want to pay Dolby royalties.

Dolby Vision's HDR low latency is used in PC games and now has the potential to expand to more gaming systems. Low latency is a standard developed by Dolby labs and is available to all Dolby Vision licensees.

When Sony adopted low latency they were not aware the standard would not work with all DV capable BD player. In fact, I was the first person to tell Sony engineers that their DV capable TVs were not working with DV devices connected via HDMI.

Other than my technical background, I enjoy a life style of honesty and integrity above all. I'm the president of the Rotary Club of Scarsdale and recipient of the highest award when I was inaugurated as a Paul Harris Fellow.

Hi Robert,

First of all, I admire your really cool accolades/laurels as president of the Scarsdale, NY Rotary Club and award related to the Paul Harris Fellow. You're a very distinguished gentlemen.

About the Sony X900F TV: is it Dolby Vision and/or HDR10+ capable yet? I do not own one yet, so I have to ask.

I am eyeing the Panny UB820 4K UHD player, which is why I am asking about the above-mentioned Sony TV capabilities. I currently own Sammy's KS8000 TV (great pic and HDR10, but no HDR10+ nor Dolby Vision).

[jibucha]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Dolby Vision's HDR low latency is used in PC games and now has the potential to expand to more gaming systems. Low latency is a standard developed by Dolby labs and is available to all Dolby Vision licensees.
[/URL]

enlighten me :: please provide supporting information

question :: you're saying 'that PC games, in gaming systems' are currently available and being used by consumers, interested in Dolby Vision? :: if so, what games, what players, what gaming systems, and what displays? (currently)

question :: what does this have to do with 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players (the point is it not; as someone already criticized me - not you whom brought it up - for referencing the Apple TV 4K)?

[Robert Zohn]

Here's the list of games that have Dolby Vision HDR.

I only referenced Apple's quick upgrade to DV to illustrate that it can be implemented into DV devices that connect via HDI.

I pointed this out in my previous post that Sony TV have Play Station built into many of their TVs and at some point they may add DV to some of the games so the TV needs to be low latency ready to take advantage of gamers needs for low input lag.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by Jodi

Hi Robert,

First of all, I admire your really cool accolades/laurels as president of the Scarsdale, NY Rotary Club and award related to the Paul Harris Fellow. You're a very distinguished gentlemen.

About the Sony X900F TV: is it Dolby Vision and/or HDR10+ capable yet? I do not own one yet, so I have to ask.

I am eyeing the Panny UB820 4K UHD player, which is why I am asking about the above-mentioned Sony TV capabilities. I currently own Sammy's KS8000 TV (great pic and HDR10, but no HDR10+ nor Dolby Vision).

Thank you Jodi! Sony will not support HDR10+ and Dolby Vision HDR will come via a firmware update.

[DJR662]

Robert, did you have the chance to see how the HDR optimizer is working out? I take it you did not have the time (yet) to hook up the Panasonic to any of the (recent) Sony 4K projectors?

[Robert Zohn]

I've tested the HDR Optimizer controls on a few 2018 TVs. We set the UB820 up on a few TVs with varied peak luminance capacities and it's easy to dial in the best HDR value for each TV's ability.

I have not tested the UB820's HDR Optimizer on any projectors yet.

Also on another forum one poster said that once you use the HDR Optimizer with more content and see all of varied peak luminance levels that HDR content is being mastered at you need to readjust the player's settings, which makes the feature not as practical as they would like. Not sure about this either, but wanted to say it as it may be relevant in real world usage.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I've tested the HDR Optimizer controls on a few 2018 TVs. We set the UB820 up on a few TVs with varied peak luminance capacities and it's easy to dial in the best HDR value for each TV's ability.

I have not tested the UB820's HDR Optimizer on any projectors yet.

Also on another forum one poster said that once you use the HDR Optimizer with more content and see all of varied peak luminance levels that HDR content is being mastered at you need to readjust the player's settings, which makes the feature not as practical as they would like. Not sure about this either, but wanted to say it as it may be relevant in real world usage.

For me, purchasing this player will come down to whether it can excel the Arve tool curves I am using on my JVC. Oppo also still intends to improve its tone mapping, so it should be interesting.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I've tested the HDR Optimizer controls on a few 2018 TVs. We set the UB820 up on a few TVs with varied peak luminance capacities and it's easy to dial in the best HDR value for each TV's ability.

I have not tested the UB820's HDR Optimizer on any projectors yet.

Also on another forum one poster said that once you use the HDR Optimizer with more content and see all of varied peak luminance levels that HDR content is being mastered at you need to readjust the player's settings, which makes the feature not as practical as they would like. Not sure about this either, but wanted to say it as it may be relevant in real world usage.

Thank you, Robert.

So in order to make fully use of it, one should have settings for both 1000 and 4000 nits content? Also I was under the impression this feature would be most useful with entry level/mid range model TVs, that do not have the highest of peak brightness for HDR. Would you say that is the case or would all TVs benefit from this feature? In other words, the HDR optimizer would also be useful for the Z9D?

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

For me, purchasing this player will come down to whether it can excel the Arve tool curves I am using on my JVC. Oppo also still intends to improve its tone mapping, so it should be interesting.

Same here.

I held off on buying the Oppo though because the custom gamma curves I'm working with do a real good job. They have also been improved upon a couple of times now by the people who created them, so more future updates are possible.

I think the 820/824 will hit European stores sometime this month. Can't wait to read the first reactions from people who are using it with a projector.

[wesslan]

I thought the whole idea with pannys HDR optimizer that you "only" dial in your tvs capabilities, say (LG Oled) 820 nits peak and the function take care of all discs no matter 1000 or 4000 nits mastering?

Not that you need to manually change each time a disc is mastered different. Then it sounds very very unpractical as you say Robert.

[Geoff D]

So....basically it's no different from Panny's current HDR optimisation feature, only it's got even more things to fiddle with it. So much for this being the great white hope of HDR remapping, at least on a 'set and forget' level, and with the current lack of DV then it's very much a case of as you were. I'll stick this one on the back burner for now.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Huh. How does it know what peak brightness to actually aim for though? All those other controls are doing is adding even more uncertainty if people want the best dynamic range mapping for their TV.

[CYMBOL]

Thanks for all the info, Robert. Appreciate you informing us as you find things out.

Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on this.

I'm just wanting a good 4k player with streaming apps built in that can actually display DV over HDMI to my Sony TV. Unfortunately, Sony stuck us with a version that is fairly crippled out of the gate.

*whispers to self*... "Don't go on a rant about Sony... Don't go on a rant about Sony"...

Either way, I've been burnt too many times with buying electronics with promises that the premium price I'm paying is worth it cause this piece is future proof... Just to find out the company gives a half @ssed update or never delivers.

Hopefully I can find a 4k player that will allow me to actually use all the features I was promised my Tv would have.

Hope to hear more updates soon.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Thank you, Robert.

So in order to make fully use of it, one should have settings for both 1000 and 4000 nits content? Also I was under the impression this feature would be most useful with entry level/mid range model TVs, that do not have the highest of peak brightness for HDR. Would you say that is the case or would all TVs benefit from this feature? In other words, the HDR optimizer would also be useful for the Z9D?



Same here.

I held off on buying the Oppo though because the custom gamma curves I'm working with do a real good job. They have also been improved upon a couple of times now by the people who created them, so more future updates are possible.

I think the 820/824 will hit European stores sometime this month. Can't wait to read the first reactions from people who are using it with a projector.

I've been very happy with the Arve curves as they have been a blessing for JVC and Sony projector users, but I found a few titles lately clipping out highlights too much. The Mummy 3 UHD BD was a good example as the edges of objects, faces, etc. looked too bright giving an overly hot or contrasty look. I've since created another curve which really helped tame that down and looks notably better now. So, I've got two curves to select depending on the title. (Note, I've become very well versed in using the tool thanks to my calibrator).

Geoff touched on it... I think with custom tone mapping on low nit displays/projectors there won't be a "one setting" for all titles that will work best just given how some titles are mastered at different nits vs others, etc.

It would be nice if the 820 offered the ability to save 2-3 custom setting options for this feature. That way a user could just select a particular curve that serves higher nit titles vs lower titles, etc. It would be pretty easy to implement and no different than the ability to save multiple picture settings.

[Geoff D]

Dude...even on de almighty ZD9 I keep two curves, one that resolves the PQ EOTF curve good and proper but which clips at roughly 1500 nits, and another which clips at 4000 nits but lowers the APL as a result.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude...even on de almighty ZD9 I keep two curves, one that resolves the PQ EOTF curve good and proper but which clips at roughly 1500 nits, and another which clips at 4000 nits but lowers the APL as a result.

Oh wow! Never realized that.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude...even on de almighty ZD9 I keep two curves, one that resolves the PQ EOTF curve good and proper but which clips at roughly 1500 nits, and another which clips at 4000 nits but lowers the APL as a result.

So you're using two separate picture settings for HDR then based on which content you are watching?