The Incredibles 4K UHD (2004)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I have great news for you, sir: if you listen to that original 5.1 home theater mix, you not only get more robust audio, you get the original spatial mix that's correct for the movie. Win/win!

Except it's NOT "more robust".

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except it's NOT "more robust".

Well, he believes it is.

If that's what he wants, he's in luck because all he has to do is listen to it.

[aetherhole]

I don't have an atmos (or an atmouse ) set up, just standard 7.1. I'm curious to those who do, what is the result of applying an upmix of the original DTS-HD MA track to it would do. Would you retain most of the spatial sound from the Atmos mix, but retain the dynamics of the original?

Anyone with a proper 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 setup be willing to give it a spin, upmixing the original track and then comparing it to the Dolby Atmos soundtrack?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bbeck

Agreed. And the fact that he completely dismisses the PQ improvements and appears to be pursuing return fraud greatly lowers my estimation of his review, Trinnov Altitude speakers or no.

The Trinnov Altitude is an immersive surround processor... a very sophisticated one at that, which can decode much more of an Atmos soundtrack than a normal receiver or pre-amp is capable of. If you're buying the disc for the Dolby Atmos mix and it doesn't deliver, then I wouldn't want it either.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

If you're buying the disc for the Dolby Atmos mix and it doesn't deliver, then I wouldn't want it either.

I don't see how such a determination can even be made when a non-Atmos movie is remixed to Atmos for a new home release. Who's to say what the virgin Atmos mix is supposed to sound like?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

If you're buying the disc for the Dolby Atmos mix and it doesn't deliver, then I wouldn't want it either.

Well, after listening to it three times now all the way through I can say that once at the proper volume level, The Incredibles does deliver.

[HumanMedia]

So sad this wasn’t re-rendered at 4k and given a GOOD Atmos mix.

[joenostalgia23]

So Disney’s been cutting corners on more than just their slipcovers lately eh?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, after listening to it three times now all the way through I can say that once at the proper volume level, The Incredibles does deliver.

Its truly hard to tell whether people are actually experiencing degraded sonics or simply a perceived degradation since lower volume is always perceived as "worse" sounding at first (see: Loudness wars).

Ironicailly, if all Disney is doing is encoding at a lower master volume level, they could actually be improving the master's dynamic range, rather than harming it.

Also, expecting tons of overhead action from a mix that was not intended for object based audio originally is very much asking for revisionist audio which I am not a fan of. If a revisionist mix is offered that's fine, too, but always want the original theatrical mix alongside it.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bbeck

Agreed. And the fact that he completely dismisses the PQ improvements and appears to be persuing return fraud greatly lowers my estimation of his review, Trinnov Altitude speakers or no.

Can you buy The Incredibles 4K Blu-ray @ Best Buy, listen to the Atmos track @ home, and return the open package to Best Buy for a refund or exchange because you don't like the limitation on the number of channels (only 7.1.6) and that you don't like the overall sound, missing some elevation sprinkles and bass magic punch and overall dynamics and lower volume than usual by couple decibels or so?

If you can do that do you need a Disney high class premium Best Buy membership titanium card from the high society club of Trinnov snobs?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The Trinnov Altitude is an immersive surround processor... a very sophisticated one at that, which can decode much more of an Atmos soundtrack than a normal receiver or pre-amp is capable of. If you're buying the disc for the Dolby Atmos mix and it doesn't deliver, then I wouldn't want it either.

There must be no 4K BR movie that is up to the challenge; I mean with a sota surround sound processor no Hollywood sound mixer can produce something worthy of that unit "Attitude"? ...I mean "Altitude".
_____

* What you think Peter? How many dBs more did you add, did you measure with a rat shack level meter for bass reach and top peaks, in your own room, and compare with the original audio?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by HumanMedia

So sad this wasn’t re-rendered at 4k and given a GOOD Atmos mix.

Luv your avatar.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Its truly hard to tell whether people are actually experiencing degraded sonics or simply a perceived degradation since lower volume is always perceived as "worse" sounding at first (see: Loudness wars).

Ironicailly, if all Disney is doing is encoding at a lower master volume level, they could actually be improving the master's dynamic range, rather than harming it.

Also, expecting tons of overhead action from a mix that was not intended for object based audio originally is very much asking for revisionist audio which I am not a fan of. If a revisionist mix is offered that's fine, too, but always want the original theatrical mix alongside it.

The Atmos sound people, and bass people too, they have high demands with their flick's soundtracks. It's normal, they paid for that.
So when Disney doesn't quite deliver their high expectations, sadness starts to envelop them with that type of children's rejection. It's Atmos nature in the year 2018. Disney knows that very well and much more.

Anyway, it's not that bad and there is no nuclear war on the horizon.
Next, The Incredibles 2.

* By the way few nights ago I revisited Ender's Game on regular Blu. I had to turn up the master volume by roughly eight decibels over my usual volume level. But man, the bass was certainly full and the dynamics too.
With this particular note: In some scenes the high frequencies clipped (distortion). It was a recording flaw, in my hearing opinion.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

* What you think Peter? How many dBs more did you add, did you measure with a rat shack level meter for bass reach and top peaks, in your own room, and compare with the original audio?

I added 10dB and no, didn't pull out the meter.
I switched back and forth, raising and lowering the volume.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, after listening to it three times now all the way through I can say that once at the proper volume level, The Incredibles does deliver.

But if you have or plan to have a >7.1.4 Atmos system, things start to fall apart. It's another print-out, for one.
When you compare the 5.1 track and the Atmos track, deficiencies besides volume do rear up.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Can you buy The Incredibles 4K Blu-ray @ Best Buy, listen to the Atmos track @ home, and return the open package to Best Buy for a refund or exchange because you don't like the limitation on the number of channels (only 7.1.6) and that you don't like the overall sound, missing some elevation sprinkles and bass magic punch and overall dynamics and lower volume than usual by couple decibels or so?

If you can do that do you need a Disney high class premium Best Buy membership titanium card from the high society club of Trinnov snobs?

If I had the money, I would love to be a Trinnov "snob" too. Hell, I'd settle for an Acurus, Emotiva, or new 9.1.4 Denon or Marantz. Maybe a lower count Trinnov, but you gain nothing extra with a print-out and definitely one that has been lessened.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

There must be no 4K BR movie that is up to the challenge; I mean with a sota surround sound processor no Hollywood sound mixer can produce something worthy of that unit "Attitude"? ...I mean "Altitude".
_____

A good home 24.1.10 mix is jaw dropping and puts 7.1.4 to shame. It's like you're at a commercial Atmos theater. Sure, you're "only" getting up to 34.1 rather than up to 62.2 in a commercial render, but still... Wow!!

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I added 10dB and no, didn't pull out the meter.
I switched back and forth, raising and lowering the volume.

10dB is a fair chunk of level raise.
But it don't really matter if we don't lose the macro and micro dynamics from the entire bandwidth (audio spectrum) and the full LFE impact.
Scientifically I don't have what it takes to truly compare, so it's a subjective preference between Atmos and the original DTS-HD MA 5.1 ES one.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

I don't have an atmos (or an atmouse ) set up, just standard 7.1. I'm curious to those who do, what is the result of applying an upmix of the original DTS-HD MA track to it would do. Would you retain most of the spatial sound from the Atmos mix, but retain the dynamics of the original?

Anyone with a proper 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 setup be willing to give it a spin, upmixing the original track and then comparing it to the Dolby Atmos soundtrack?

I’ve done that in the past with other films and there’s simply no comparison. You lose all the discrete effects and pannings of specific objects. You get some nice atmospheric effects but you do lose quite a bit of what makes an Atmos mix special. For example, upmixing the 5.1 mix of Gravity loses all of the voice pannings and placements that adds so much to the immersion effect. In this case it would be the same given that the Atmos mix relies so much on different pannings, like the flying vehicles, dash running around, the cat meowing above, etc.

Honestly, I’ve seen the film in a 7.1.4 configuration and there’s plenty that the Atmos adds compared to the other mix. There’s just no comparison. And if you lose any dynamics at all, it’s very minimal. I didn’t think the new mix lacked neither dynamic range nor low end effects. Both were plentiful. I think people are either not compensating properly in terms of the volume level when switching between them (because the new mix is lower in volume, not dynamics) or they have their setup not calibrated properly.

[samlop10]

I just came back from watching a Double Feature of The Incredibles and Incredibles 2 in Laser IMAX. I kept the Atmos mix in mind and it sounded nearly identical in terms of object placement and sound stage expansion. And, surprise, surprise, the scene in which the tree hits the car sounded weak then too, just like in the Atmos mix. However, it can’t be the same mix as Laser IMAX uses their own 12 channel configuration and not Atmos, so Disney had to have had made a different mix for that as well. Given that both sound so similar even though the mixes are different (one Atmos, the other a Laser IMAX 12 channel mix), I think that sound effect is just burned into original sound effects and it’s not a mistake of the re-mix.

And again, I found the Atmos mix for the 4K disc excellent, not lacking at all in any way when set at the proper volume, and dynamics are plentiful.