Anyone refusing to go to 4K Blu-ray UHD?

[ROSS.T.G.]

It’s a little ridiculous to make assumptions or base opinions on a format if you haven’t actually seen it. And looking at a few tv’s in a store doesn’t count. Blu-ray is fantastic but let’s not pretend it’s the best way or more accurate way to watch older films. 35mm has around 13 stops of dynamic range. I believe SDR BD has a dynamic range of about 6 stops. HDR has about 17 if I remember. People believe what they want or worse believe what someone wrote and form their opinions without actually experiencing it for themselves. It’s fine if your happy with BD because it’s a great way to enjoy movies but claiming it’s the best way is just foolish.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by smithb

Yes, which is why I brought up teal movement and the Leone movies that have nothing to do with HDR. HDR is just another technology to be used correctly or misused at someones whim. But you have to admit the advent of HDR provides a reason to do another run at the color grading of a film. Hopefully, those doing it will do the proper research to maintain the intent of the original.

It's a reason, sure, just like doing a new transfer from original negative is a reason to regrade, whether it's for 2K or 4K, SDR or HDR. HDR is a transfer function which will need more time to settle down in terms of people's expectations of it and also for the actual colourists and how they approach it, so mistakes will happen. But I personally see all forms of video as a revision of sorts, the old gamma EOTF is no more or less intrinsically "accurate" than PQ is, it's all about the people twiddling the controls and how they deploy their taste, skill and judgment, and always has been.

We trust that the images we're seeing have had some form of proper intent guiding their creation, a blind faith that it's true to source (using reference materials and/or filmmaker involvement, though that comes with its own caveats as to whether it's what they intended then or what they intend now). And yet with each new format can come a very different looking transfer for x movie, even those that use the same materials as their basis, because the tools and the methodologies have changed in the interim.

We assume that the last one was the most accurate and that may well have been the case at the time, David Fincher has personally overseen new transfers for Se7en across laserdisc, DVD and HD that all look different in their own way, and Chris Nolan's movies on BD and UHD are a prime example of this. He insists on overseeing the home video transfers and he insists that they be transferred from IPs, and yet some of those movies turned out to be drastically different in terms of black level and colour when transitioning from SDR to HDR, despite using the same IPs at source and despite his seal of approval applying to both versions. He was apparently asked if he wanted to update the existing SDR versions using the new transfers and he said no because he was happy to keep them as a record of what they did look like.

[storythecorgi]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

What are you reading? This couldn’t be further from the truth.

A lot of people were not impressed with the Jurassic Parks films, Harry Potter films, Forrest Gump, etc. And I'm not just referring to people on Blu-ray.com.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Mhmm, and a lot people aren’t impressed with many BD titles. So what? The JP’s could have been better but they are still better than the BD’s so there’s that.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by storythecorgi

A lot of people were not impressed with the Jurassic Parks films, Harry Potter films, Forrest Gump, etc.

The existence of sub-optimal transfers does not indicate a limitation of the source itself.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

The existence of sub-optimal transfers does not indicate a limitation of the source itself.

Right many of these films were unimpressive on Blu-Ray. There have been a number of Blu-Ray transfers over the years that were a let down because the studio did not get it right. Same with DVD. The same will be said for UHD. This has nothing to do with the format.

[emailking]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

The way I can describe it is like when you go to the opticians and they put a lense across your eyes that although a slight adjustment, just makes everything seem clearer and sharper. For those who don’t wear glasses etc having what already seemed like a clear windscreen, actually cleaned professionally. It’s just that something you realise once you see it.

I’m surprised people who own a 4k system are unable to see a difference, an improvement as it is quite obvious. Even those that don’t, with normal blu rays where a new remastered version comes out and it’s a clear improvement on the old disc. It’s not some massive leap, but it’s clearly obvious it’s much better. How could you not then want all movies to be improved? Arrow Videos release of Ronin remastered in 4k. The improvement on quality over the Ronin disc releases 10years previous. Smashes it away.

I only notice a difference if I watch a UHD and then put in the blu-ray right after and notice it looks worse. But just watching a UHD straight off, it doesn't look like anything special to me, compared to blu-ray. Just being honest. I have to go down a level to see there was a difference.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Ryandj

After starting this thread 53 pages ago and going against my original comment and jumping into 4k with a sony 900f and a sony x800 im honestly not that impressed with the format.

imo opinion the quality is "marginally" better and I feel 4k has laser disc written all over it- enthusiast prefer it but unless the quality gains consistency and catalog titles decrease in cost it will never catch mass appeal

I disagree. Why? Go look at Best Buy right now at your options for buying a new TV. There are far more 4K capable sets for sale than 1080p or 720p (even combined). And that trend will only increase for 4K. Just like 1080p sets became dominant, I would guess in 3 years or so even finding a 1080p set could be a chore. Especially in a store.

I bet we see the same with 4K Blu-Ray players. At some point most stores will simply want less SKU's and one model as the prices continue to drop on 4K players.

Same with streaming devices and video game consoles. 4K/HDR will be the standard.

At some point with combo packs UHD/Blu-Ray/Digitial will likely be the norm as well with less SKU's to manage. With physical stores like Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc cutting back on their packaged media shelf space this may become a push for them. Plus it's a higher price which means more money.

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

The existence of sub-optimal transfers does not indicate a limitation of the source itself.

Right. This would be like citing Predator as a reason not to upgrade to Blu-ray from DVD.

For all those weak transfers, you have stuff like The Mummy, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Labyrinth, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Starship Troopers, Dracula, Die Hard, Mission: Impossible, The Dark Crystal, and on and on and on. This format is a MIRACLE for “older” films, IMO.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

This format is a MIRACLE for “older” films, IMO.

To my eyes, the only way it isn't is that they simply aren't releasing enough of them.

[dirkblack]

I myself have updated and am very glad I did, but someone I know simply won’t. They call it ‘The Emperors New Clothes’ of discs.

He firmly believes that there is very little or no difference at all in performance and the only reason it sells is because a large amount of people who bought it don’t wish too look stupid when there turns out to be no discernible difference. Hence The emperors New Clothes metaphor.

[fighthefutureofhd]

There are plenty of Blu-rays of popular films that have not gotten a good transfer on Blu-ray. Then their 4K counterpart comes out and manages to finally have a good transfer for a change. Like Die Hard for example. Or Labyrinth. Oddly, Sony has become a better studio for 4K than they were for Blu-rays for the most part. A lot of Sony's MIK's were really good, but they had a lot of Blu-rays that just didn't pass muster. Now, they've stepped up their game with 4K UHDs and have quickly become many people's favorite studio. With many of their 4K presentations being quite stellar.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by dirkblack

I myself have updated and am very glad I did, but someone I know simply won’t. They call it ‘The Emperors New Clothes’ of discs.

He firmly believes that there is very little or no difference at all in performance and the only reason it sells is because a large amount of people who bought it don’t wish too look stupid when there turns out to be no discernible difference. Hence The emperors New Clothes metaphor.

Yeah that's 'dumbest guy in the room' logic. "Everyone here is no smarter than I am; so watch me pull one over them." Florida man robs bank, gets caught hours later wearing the same clothes. They don't know they are the dumbest guy in the room. They operate as if everyone else functions on their same maximum capacity. Intelligent people find his suppositions insulting.

It must be an eyesight thing. i.e. Since my eyesight is bad and I see no discernible difference, then neither does anybody else. Therefore, it is not a substantial difference in quality. It's that type of logic at play. Same as the DVD people.

[nick4Knight]

Still a tired debate. It is some combination of money vs personal investment in better technology. Some people upgrade their smart phones but get the cheapest one each time and say "no difference between this [knock off chinese brand] and a latest iphone? They both make calls, receive texts and get the wifi internet" but are just ignorant to the vast processing limitation, screen quality, camera quality, speed, functions... etc. To justify their priority being low for having an elite smart phone.

People who are content with DVD are not legitimately believing their own rhetoric, similarly. It's just a huge confirmation game they play with themselves. You have to tell yourself over and over it's no difference between SD and HD to believe that... and the exact same is true of UHD. It's just some folk on here (who should not be like those weird DVD normies) have come up against their wall of personal investment with blu-ray. And they need a narrative to say HDR, WCG, 10-bit colour depth etc is "no difference" or is "just a gimmick".. Whatever you say, chief

[koover]

Originally Posted by nick4amber

Still a tired debate. It is some combination of money vs personal investment in better technology. Some people upgrade their smart phones but get the cheapest one each time and say "no difference between this [knock off chinese brand] and a latest iphone? They both make calls, receive texts and get the wifi internet" but are just ignorant to the vast processing limitation, screen quality, camera quality, speed, functions... etc. To justify their priority being low for having an elite smart phone.

People who are content with DVD are not legitimately believing their own rhetoric, similarly. It's just a huge confirmation game they play with themselves. You have to tell yourself over and over it's no difference between SD and HD to believe that... and the exact same is true of UHD. It's just some folk on here (who should not be like those weird DVD normies) have come up against their wall of personal investment with blu-ray. And they need a narrative to say HDR, WCG, 10-bit colour depth etc is "no difference" or is "just a gimmick".. Whatever you say, chief

The people who say there’s no difference between DVD/Blu-ray or Blu-ray/UHD are just ignorant or blind, or maybe both.
Me? I’m not gonna spend the money now and am quite content with my gear even though I know 4K is better. Eventually I’ll upgrade but it’s not gonna happen for a while for my projector setup. Just to expensive for what I personally want. I’m going to get a quality projector and right now I’m
Not willing to fork out that kinda cash.
But there’s some nice 65” sets (as big as I can go) that are pretty sweet that are under $1k so you you never know.

[Talal86]

Even if you're not planning to upgrade your system anytime soon, I'd still recommend buying the uhd of the new releases

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Talal86

Even if you're not planning to upgrade your system anytime soon, I'd still recommend buying the uhd of the new releases

This is the only thing that I have flirted with doing a couple times, as it's really just trading one combo pack for another in most cases. And I'm sure in another 5 years or so, when UHD premium TVs are more widely available, I will eventually get into UHD (whether it's on disc or streaming has taken over).

Hence why I do have a select few UHDs; though in all cases, I had ulterior reasons for picking them up (Steelbook for the 4K Blade Runner 2049, super cheap discount on the 4K Red Sparrow for instance).

But I'll be damned if you guys don't keep making it hard for me to do even this. There's so much arrogance among 4K collectors (on full display in this thread) that I keep saying "**** it."

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

This is the only thing that I have flirted with doing a couple times, as it's really just trading one combo pack for another in most cases. And I'm sure in another 5 years or so, when UHD premium TVs are more widely available, I will eventually get into UHD (whether it's on disc or streaming has taken over).

Hence why I do have a select few UHDs; though in all cases, I had ulterior reasons for picking them up (Steelbook for the 4K Blade Runner 2049, super cheap discount on the 4K Red Sparrow for instance).

But I'll be damned if you guys don't keep making it hard for me to do even this. There's so much arrogance among 4K collectors (on full display in this thread) that I keep saying "**** it."

Okay, let me get this straight. You feel that 4K collectors here are being arrogant and that makes you NOT to want to go 4K? Seriously? On a forum?

Dude, that's more your issue than it is anyone else's. LOL

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

But I'll be damned if you guys don't keep making it hard for me to do even this. There's so much arrogance among 4K collectors (on full display in this thread) that I keep saying "**** it."

Yes it is the arrogance of the 4K collectors that is keeping you from buying a new TV now! roflmao

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

Okay, let me get this straight. You feel that 4K collectors here are being arrogant and that makes you NOT to want to go 4K? Seriously? On a forum?

Dude, that's more your issue than it is anyone else's. LOL

Originally Posted by Nothing371

Yes it is the arrogance of the 4K collectors that is keeping you from buying a new TV now! roflmao

Glad to see you guys can't even read. I didn't say one thing about buying or not buying a TV right now (or actually getting into 4K media).

For the record, I have a 4K TV. One that, by the way, Blu-rays look absolutely spectacular on. But the HDR isn't that great. Hence, why I have no interest in UHD for the foreseeable future. I bought it more for the 3D anyway (wow, I bet that makes your blood boil).

The only 4K related thing I've contemplated doing (god, I can't believe I have to repeat myself) is buying BD/4K combo packs instead of BD/DVD combo packs, as a few years down the line, I might want to get into UHD.

Obviously, my heart's not really in it - otherwise, yes, I'll grant you that I'd probably do that regardless of how arrogant you all are (and your responses sure have lived up to that assessment).

Anyway, I've had it. Enjoy your one-and-only worthy format. I'm out.