Mission: Impossible 1-5 4K UHDs (1996-2015)

[fighthefutureofhd]

In what way? That they both can't act?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, with some atrocious clipping of highlights, which anyone just wandering into the review will take as absolute gospel that the 4K transfer looks as blown out as that. It's not (which can be seen by clicking on the 'raw' version of each cap with no EOTF applied). What happened there Deci?

Same as the others.

For the present time they are 320nit ( +1.67 F/stops of highlight above SDR 100) with the correct curve and 2020color. Highlights that go above 300 will reach the ceiling (just like they would on slide film for example, which place diffuse whites about 0.33 f/stops below specular highlights at the slide's minimum density limit). When everybody has 1000 nit (+3.33 F/stops of highlights above 100) computer monitors (or 10,000 nit, +6.67 f/stops of highlights), they can be changed to that. Or when web browsers have DolbyVision chips on them .

So if you see highlights around and above the limit you know the UHD has highlights reaching above that As you say, HDR image is provided so you can further examine it. All the tones within are in it.

They're not hard clipped, they have a curve (somewhat like slide film) but going from 300 to 10,000, it's 5 stops more of highlights you have to compress into an SDR web browser. Or make the screenshot 32 times darker:

10000nit
320nit
HDR

(Geoff you have about 3.8 F/stops of highlights and 6.5 f/stops below 100 nits within your UHDTV's 10.3 static dynamic range) (11.3 w/ local dimming)

[jayman3]

Middle image looks the best

[Geoff D]

It's also blowing out the highlights to balls. The power of contrast compels you!

Deci, your curve seems to be accentuating some horrendous blocking artefacts too.

[jayman3]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's also blowing out the highlights to balls. The power of contrast compels you!

Deci, your curve seems to be accentuating some horrendous blocking artefacts too.

True. Is there a way to prevent/fix that but maintain the look?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's also blowing out the highlights to balls. The power of contrast compels you!

Deci, your curve seems to be accentuating some horrendous blocking artefacts too.

It's the hot HDR Dubai sun

Btw it's not my curve. HDR curve with roll after 250>10000 ->320
I can make you one for 1500 but it be too dark on a browser, not Dubai at all.

Where is the horror artifact, can you point it out?

Also (don't know if that's ^ what you're seeing) but same as HDR PQ curve expands tones 100x SDR, rec2020 expands color about 3 times rec709sRGB (multiplied by 100 in L tones height, that could be 300fold ); and jpgs piccies still have the 8bit limitation. Some I open in old 8bit(and even 10bit) browsers/image editors get some posterization, while they look smoother in the (less than 2 years old) Safari one or Photoshop. If I decrease the gamma on one image editor to make images lighter (and pixel peep into the shadows) in one system I can see posterizations that i dont see in another image editor like Photoshop in another (making me think the lesser editor/system chokes on the color management vaues etc.)

Is that what you're seeing?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by jayman3

True. Is there a way to prevent/fix that but maintain the look?

You could apply a different custom highlight curve to each image depending on the image highlights to diffuse whites ratio and average brightness, making each image's brightness darker or light depending on the average and compressing the ratio of highlights to whites more or less depending on if it has torch highlight or puny highlights, to end up with an image that looks mostly pleasant and "fits".

But this would also entail working manually on each and every image differenty (up to 40 photoshop manipulations per review). And each image then would be displayed different than it is, not comparable to each other image in the movie (and to other titles' images likewise), giving you a less accurate picture of what's actually there. And not the aim of what we want to do.

You wouldn't know or be able to directly tell that Goodfellas or Blade Runner 2049 have highlight ranges that fit basically almost within SDR monitors while MI4 has sun blinding daylight, that some discs are contrasty or darker while others are grayish and light by just looking and comparing them.

And everybody has a different computer monitor, and monitors have different ranges of brightness and color. So to which "monitor" do we apply each "custom" curve? SDR 100 nits 709? Which I think is the case with some(most?) screenshots people post, trying to make them look close and fit to the BD SDR 709 ones. That defeats the HDR / color

Same as color rendering, you could make all colors fit sRGB, muting colors (perceptual); instead of having each be at their correct saturation even if some colors there are out of bound ones (relative) and if you have wider gamut monitors the out of sRGB/709 tones display properly into these monitors . (If someone has a NX-2020 and the disc has those hues they should map too, in these screenshots).

If you see this is what the expensive DV chips do (try to fit the image to your particular monitor by heavily massaging it by making the image look pleasant but different than it is) (and see how they are somewhat in growing pains with firmware updates). Web browser screenshots have to be viewable by everybody.

(We've come up with an idea that could take into account screenshot web/computer monitor viewing brightness in the future, but it's not feasible yet. But, always the future in movement will be)

[Rustam15]

In regards to the mention of 3D titles, which I myself had to sacrifice for the 4K upgrade... I too, refuse to get a “better” 4K tv unless it’s 3D compatible. I’m dying to rewatch Gravity, properly... and yet, here I am.

[Rizor]

Watched MI2 last night. The disc looked great. The movie itself wasn't as fun as I remembered it. What I liked the most about it 18 years ago still worked. Thandie Newton still looked gorgeous, Tom Cruise crushes it and John Woo makes him look like an action movie god. The action and stunts were still great. And Ambrose is probably the most interesting of the Mission: Impossible villains. Basically a dark version of Ethan Hunt who seemed like he could feasibly go toe to toe with him. Heck, for a movie that's nearly 20 years old, it's really only dated by its 90s rock music and editing style. But why on earth would you make a John Woo Mission: Impossible with ZERO action for the first 75 minutes?! Might have worked if the drama was better, but gosh that was rough to get through.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

Why? The format is all but dropped in the US so if you want to watch 3D you've got to import it. Why would I want to pay all that extra money to import something that's not supported here in the states? It would be nice if 3D were still a thing here, but sadly that ship has sailed.

Yet in the 3D forum you've got US posters who are importing UK 3D releases because they are cheaper to import than they are to buy in the US!

Importing is easy and most 3D releases are region free. I don't understand your "Why would I want to pay all that extra money to import something that's not supported here in the states?" line. The reason to import it is to get a 3D blu ray so one can watch a 3D blu ray at home.

Aaaaanyway, I understand imsounoriginal's perspective on it, he already has a library of 3D discs that he'd like to still get use out of, even if he's not looking to get future 3D releases.

Back on topic though I really hope Mission Impossible Fallout gets a 3D/ 4K combo somewhere. I have the 4K set for all of the others but as this is the first one in 3D I will definitely get both formats.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by Rustam15

In regards to the mention of 3D titles, which I myself had to sacrifice for the 4K upgrade... I too, refuse to get a “better” 4K tv unless it’s 3D compatible. I’m dying to rewatch Gravity, properly... and yet, here I am.

Sadly only second hand is the way to go at the mo, hopefully manufacturers will start to continue it again in future models. LG really had a great thing going with their 3D/ 4K sets, it's a shame they dropped 3D as their passive tech had gotten really wonderful.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by Rizor

Watched MI2 last night. The disc looked great. The movie itself wasn't as fun as I remembered it. What I liked the most about it 18 years ago still worked. Thandie Newton still looked gorgeous, Tom Cruise crushes it and John Woo makes him look like an action movie god. The action and stunts were still great. And Ambrose is probably the most interesting of the Mission: Impossible villains. Basically a dark version of Ethan Hunt who seemed like he could feasibly go toe to toe with him. Heck, for a movie that's nearly 20 years old, it's really only dated by its 90s rock music and editing style. But why on earth would you make a John Woo Mission: Impossible with ZERO action for the first 75 minutes?! Might have worked if the drama was better, but gosh that was rough to get through.

I really, really like the movie. I think it's a fun action thriller with a heft dose of cheese but it has so much style. I've never been crazy about the final fight though. it seems to focused on 'moves' for want of a better word, ie Hunt pulling off lots of OTT martial arts style moves that we've never seen from his character before, or since in the franchise. The slow mo used to emphasise these moves doesn't help as it really hammers the point home a bit much.

[Markgway]

The more I learn about UHD... the less I know.

[Pieter V]

How 'Mission Impossible' made the leap to 4K and HDR

"In terms of any re-transfers or remastering that we are doing for our HDR releases, we will go back to the highest resolution source available," Kirsten Pielstick, manager of Paramount's digital mastering group, said in an interview. In the case of Mission Impossible 1 and 2, that involved scanning the original 35mm negatives in 4K/16-bit. As you'd expect, the studio tries to get the original artists involved with any remasters, especially with something like HDR, which allows for higher brightness and more nuanced black levels.

Pielstick worked with the director of photography (DP) for the first Mission Impossible film, Stephen H. Burum, to make sure its noir-like palette stayed intact. Unfortunately, the studio couldn't get John Woo to visit for the second film's restoration, but Pielstick says they had multiple conversations with him about how it was being handled. Though they're very different movies, they each show off the benefits of HDR in different ways.

More here.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/07/18/...le-4k-and-hdr/

[singhcr]

Thanks for the article! Most appreciated.

I can't say I agree with the last bit about Goodfellas and leaving older films in SDR as they wouldn't benefit from HDR, but I liked hearing the general approach to restoring these films.

[Sky_Captain]

The Goodfellas bit is just the usual shit-posting journalism style, that's to be expected from engadget and chums.

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by levcore

Yet in the 3D forum you've got US posters who are importing UK 3D releases because they are cheaper to import than they are to buy in the US!

Importing is easy and most 3D releases are region free. I don't understand your "Why would I want to pay all that extra money to import something that's not supported here in the states?" line. The reason to import it is to get a 3D blu ray so one can watch a 3D blu ray at home.

Most of the importing I've ever done has been expensive as heck. More expensive than that format is worth.

Originally Posted by levcore

Sadly only second hand is the way to go at the mo, hopefully manufacturers will start to continue it again in future models. LG really had a great thing going with their 3D/ 4K sets, it's a shame they dropped 3D as their passive tech had gotten really wonderful.

THIS!! The best reason to not go 3D. I don't buy second-hand, high-end electronics such as TVs. If something goes south I'm screwed and I don't have the money to shell out for a new TV all that much. In the last 10 years, I have bought a good number of TVs but I either got them with bonus money, tax refunds, or as a gift. I've done too much of it as it is so I need to stop. which is why I decided against a 3D tv this time round. It's hard to support a format that isn't being supported where you live.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Sky_Captain

The Goodfellas bit is just the usual shit-posting journalism style, that's to expected from engadget and chums.

They mention goodfellas?
I don't give them clicks.
I find that's the title to weed out people who have no idea what they are talking about, and the quality of their display.

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

They mention goodfellas?
I don't give them clicks.
I find that's the title to weed out people who have no idea what they are talking about, and the quality of their display.

Since you don't give them click; they referred to this Blu-ray.com review.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/GoodF...lu-ray/161258/

Nuff said.

[Sky_Captain]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

They mention goodfellas?
I don't give them clicks.
I find that's the title to weed out people who have no idea what they are talking about, and the quality of their display.

Remember the people knocking the shit out of Sony's early releases, including a so called 4K rock star? All gone very quiet there lol