Star Trek Discovery

[Jeyl]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

No, he made a decision which condemned a species to extinction. That’s not the same as commitng genocide.

Oh, please explain why they're not the same.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by Jeyl

Oh, please explain why they're not the same.

Commit genocide = fly in, attack the planet with explicit intent to kill the entire population, and not stop until every last one of them was dead.

Archer’s decision = Not helping, potentially leading to extinction, but doesn’t exclude the possibility that another alien species might come along and help them out at some point.

Kirk never did anything like that.

After the destruction of Praxis, Kirk would have been quite happy for the Klingons to die out. Purely because he hated their guts.

[Jeyl]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

Archer’s decision = Not helping, potentially leading to extinction, but doesn’t exclude the possibility that another alien species might come along and help them out at some point.

I like that point you made about another species coming along to help out. What if that species would one day become an enemy of the Federation? And if that species were to ever come into conflict with the Federation, who would the Valakians side with? The group who helped save their entire race from extinction, or the other group that felt that extinction was a good thing for everyone?

Some fans even theorize that the Breen are actually the Valakians who have degenerated so much over time that they had to resort to intensive genetic engineering that lead to them living their entire existence in life support suits and finally engaged the Federation in all out war when the Dominion sought allies in their war against the Federation. Suddenly the Breen demanding Earth as their victory trophy doesn’t sound so random anymore.

Sorry, but it’s still genocide. Archer had the cure. He had the choice to save them or let them die. What possible good could come out of that? You don’t get to say you didn’t come out here to play God when you are playing God by choosing death to an entire species.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by Jeyl

I like that point you made about another species coming along to help out. What if that species would one day become an enemy of the Federation? And if that species were to ever come into conflict with the Federation, who would the Valakians side with? The group who helped save their entire race from extinction, or the other group that felt that extinction was a good thing for everyone?

Some fans even theorize that the Breen are actually the Valakians who have degenerated so much over time that they had to resort to intensive genetic engineering that lead to them living their entire existence in life support suits and finally engaged the Federation in all out war when the Dominion sought allies in their war against the Federation. Suddenly the Breen demanding Earth as their victory trophy doesn’t sound so random anymore.

Sorry, but it’s still genocide. Archer had the cure. He had the choice to save them or let them die. What possible good could come out of that? You don’t get to say you didn’t come out here to play God when you are playing God by choosing death to an entire species.

So if you can help save someone’s life by, say, a kidney transplant, but chose not to and then the person dies; are you guilty of murder? Did your decision lead to the person’s death? Sure. Did you kill that person? Of course not.

[Jeyl]

Originally Posted by Josep5349

So if you can help save someone’s life by, say, a kidney transplant, but chose not to and then the person dies; are you guilty of murder? Did your decision lead to the person’s death? Sure. Did you kill that person? Of course not.

This isn't about a surgical transplant where you're giving something up. This was a species wide catastrophe that Phlox had discovered a cure for. It didn't require anyone to give up any part of themselves.

Kes from Voyager was more Humane than Archer when she willingly gave up one of her lungs so that Neelix didn't have to live life as a vegetable.

[Josep5349]

Originally Posted by Jeyl

This isn't about a surgical transplant where you're giving something up. This was a species wide catastrophe that Phlox had discovered a cure for. It didn't require anyone to give up any part of themselves.

Kes from Voyager was more Humane than Archer when she willingly gave up one of her lungs so that Neelix didn't have to live life as a vegetable.

The circumstances don’t need to be the same for the point to stand. Archer’s decision possibly lead to extinction, which would have happned anyway, but he didn’t kill them.

It’s not like (old) Odo, who did wilfully commit genocide in Children of Time, by not only wiping out those who were alive at the time, but also those who were ever born on the planet. All for his own selfish motives.

[benji888578]

Originally Posted by BluPat

I'm sure it's been asked already but any peep about a Blu-ray or 4K Blu-ray release of Season 1?

I have this question too, hoping for a UHD DV release....

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

I thought the trailer was amazing! I wish they would give it UHD/HDR through Amazon Prime!

Can't wait for season 2 to get here!

Originally Posted by Cap.T

Outside of the US the first season doesn't even air on Netflix in UHD. It's just the Full HD-Version with HDR.

Originally Posted by Bolty

Can't wait. And can't wait for season one on Blu-ray or UHD.

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

I'd accept that with a sprinkling of ATMOS please!

I heard that, outside of the US, in some places, Netflix was playing either 1080p w/DV HDR, or even 4K/UHD w/DV HDR for the first couple episodes.

While (on IMDb) the tech specs include HDR10 & DV, it was captured with Redcode RAW, so, it's possible it was finished to 4K/UHD, but, , I would really like to see this on UHD blu-ray w/DV (& Dolby Atmos!). I mean, GOT already got Atmos and is being upgraded to UHD, and Discovery has a similar production cost & quality.

I know they will wait until the last minute because they want people to subscribe to CBS all access, but, it would be nice to have the best option for those that want to own it and for those of us that really don't want to subscribe. (Also would like a bunch of extras including the after trek episodes, and outtakes or gag reels.)

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

What does everyone else think of the anamorphic 2.39:1 photography? A rarity to see that in a TV show (the Cradle scenes in Westworld S2 come to mind) and a notable change from Season 1's flat, 2:1 aspect ratio and spherical lenses.

Some may object because it makes it look even more like the Abrams films, but personally I kind of dig it.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Completed watching S1 and I liked it. Not head-over-heels or anything but it was nice to have Trek back again. Loved the look of the photography though, all moody lighting with pin-sharp detail, and the wobbly-cam didn't bother me one iota. Those bridge sets are GIGANTIC though, I'm so used to the tighter confines of previous vessels but I guess they went with a lot of width to fill the 2:1 ratio. (Yes pedants, I KNOW THAT ALL THE MOVIES WERE IN AN EVEN WIDER RATIO but they had a certain style and layout to adhere to, often building atop the bones of existing Trek sets, and even the embiggened 1701-D bridge slapped in a few extra consoles at the sides rather than truly opening up the set.) ...

I actually like the 2.0 aspect ratio. I prefer it because the format can work natively with spherical lenses. I don't care for the wider 2.39:1 format as much because I can see anamorphic lenses are used, gives it a bit of a "fish eye" lens kind of look, (that's actually what an anamorphic lens is). I'm hoping that they will keep the 2.0 aspect. If the teaser trailer (being 2.39:1) is not just for the trailer, but, how they're doing s2, I'm a bit disappointed. (And, not a fan of using that song with the trailer.)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by benji888578

I actually like the 2.0 aspect ratio. I prefer it because the format can work natively with spherical lenses. I don't care for the wider 2.39:1 format as much because I can see anamorphic lenses are used, gives it a bit of a "fish eye" lens kind of look, (that's actually what an anamorphic lens is). I'm hoping that they will keep the 2.0 aspect. If the teaser trailer (being 2.39:1) is not just for the trailer, but, how they're doing s2, I'm a bit disappointed. (And, not a fan of using that song with the trailer.)

What do you mean, "if it's not just for the teaser"? They either shot S2 on anamorphic glass or they didn't, and clearly they did judging from the elliptical bokeh, shallow DOF and other tell-tale signs, so ultimately the aspect of S2 means diddly because even if it's cropped to 2:1 it'll still look every inch like an anamorphic show.

I think it looks lovely, even if it does ultimately run the risk of removing a lil' bit of movie magic from the films themselves, i.e. 25 years ago you had TNG shot on 35mm but ultimately finished out to SD 480 so the change to 35mm anamorphic for Generations gave it a proper movie 'feel' IMO but now there won't be hardly anything in it, save for the quality of the VFX perhaps (not that I'm knocking Discovery's effects as I thought it looked rather spiffy, but more gloss could no doubt be added). And the ironical thing is that the TV show may well end up getting a 4K finish, or least it would if it was made for Netflix or wherever, while the recent movies are 2K all the way.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think it looks lovely, even if it does ultimately run the risk of removing a lil' bit of movie magic from the films themselves, i.e. 25 years ago you had TNG shot on 35mm but ultimately finished out to SD 480 so the change to 35mm anamorphic for Generations gave it a proper movie 'feel'

Funny you should mention Generations since David Carson had to fight to shoot anamorphic - Paramount wanted Super35 and "video safe" like VI was.

For me, the biggest thing that makes Generations cinematic was the lighting. Absolutely gorgeous and not "flat" like the TV show had been.

[Geoff D]

Yes, very good point about the lighting and that's another thing that's closing that gap between film and TV. When I watched those S4 eps of Enterprise after finishing DISCO I could not believe how stark and flat and dull the lighting was in ENT. I think that's another reason why jumping straight from DISCO to TOS didn't seem anywhere near as jarring to me despite the latter's vivid primary-coloured style because at least it has some style, something to identify it visually, but from TNG to ENT they all kind of blur together.

Not that there aren't exceptions, when they had the time to do something a bit different on whatever episode, but that's another thing about DISCO: it's not a show that's being pounded out like so much Trek chuck for network or syndication so they've got the time to be able to light it in more of a 'feature' kinda style.

[cynatnite]

When the show first premiered I watched the first couple of episodes and decided I didn't like it. I savaged it pretty good. Then when I heard about what was coming for the second season, I thought I should check it out some more.

The Klingons still look terrible with their looks and uniforms, but they're pretty badass, too. I like them better than I did.

Starfleet uniforms, I still don't care for, but that's really a minor complaint.

I really like the crew of Discovery a lot. Some nice lighthearted moments going forward and great crew interaction really endeared me to them.

The story itself with Starfleet vs the Klingons and the Mirror Universe is really great and kept me riveted. I'm not a fan of the Mirror Universe story lines in other Star Trek episodes, but this one I liked a lot. Far more interesting, IMO.

I've only got a few more left to watch and I'm wishing there were more.

Good show. If there's a UHD release, I'm in!

[L-Rouge]

Speaking of "Generations" I was always fond of the lighting in the ready room as the Enterprise sat in proximity to the Amagosa Star, the set was bathed in a beautiful yellow light.

the shots of the Enterprise looked so much more "cinematic" and "sweeping".

[benji888578]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What do you mean, "if it's not just for the teaser"? They either shot S2 on anamorphic glass or they didn't, and clearly they did judging from the elliptical bokeh, shallow DOF and other tell-tale signs, so ultimately the aspect of S2 means diddly because even if it's cropped to 2:1 it'll still look every inch like an anamorphic show.

I think it looks lovely, even if it does ultimately run the risk of removing a lil' bit of movie magic from the films themselves, i.e. 25 years ago you had TNG shot on 35mm but ultimately finished out to SD 480 so the change to 35mm anamorphic for Generations gave it a proper movie 'feel' IMO but now there won't be hardly anything in it, save for the quality of the VFX perhaps (not that I'm knocking Discovery's effects as I thought it looked rather spiffy, but more gloss could no doubt be added). And the ironical thing is that the TV show may well end up getting a 4K finish, or least it would if it was made for Netflix or wherever, while the recent movies are 2K all the way.

Well, it sounds stupid now, but, my thinking was the teaser could have been cropped to 2.39:1, but, that's not likely. It still isn't my favorite way to go. I do hope they don't dive deeper into the hype, Into Darkness was taking things a bit too far over the edge IMO. But, I like all the ST films, each in various ways. I think Beyond was one of the better films, however, the main trailer was terrible and I think, if the trailer had been done a lot better, it could have brought more action fans in that weren't necessarily ST fans.

FYI: you can get "bokeh" with spherical lenses. There are multiple types of lenses for spherical or anamorphic applications.

I watched it again, I still prefer the 2.0 aspect, but, that's just me, ...maybe I've been to IMAX too many times

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Funny you should mention Generations since David Carson had to fight to shoot anamorphic - Paramount wanted Super35 and "video safe" like VI was.

For me, the biggest thing that makes Generations cinematic was the lighting. Absolutely gorgeous and not "flat" like the TV show had been.

I agree about lighting, I think lighting and composition make a bigger difference than anything, and that this is something done well with DISCO, ...I think the overall production is done pretty well. (I do also like The Orville, however, not always happy with the lighting.)

For Generations, yeah, I love the lighting, but, they also did have to "beef up" the sets, as the sets were designed for the small screen and not intended to be shot for the big screen, similarly, this is the reason for the (transitional) change in uniforms, (according to Ronald D. Moore (or someone else) in commentary).

(bunny trail) One thing some people may not realize and appreciate about TNG (TV), the reflections of people, starfields and such on desks/tables, or glossy panels in engineering, etc., that is actually very hard to do to get the kind of reflections they caught, without getting reflections of the lighting or props or something else you don't want in there...and it looks absolutely fantastic on the blu-rays, since all but a small amount of the effects (phaser blasts and such) were shot on film. ...They made it easier on themselves for series after TNG with no more glass type desks/tables and they reworked panels to avoid reflections. (TNG also had a large budget, at the time, of around 1-1.2mil per episode in the first few seasons, I think it may have been more in later seasons). (end of bunny trail.)

[Geoff D]

All lenses have their own kind of bokeh, I'm talking about the specific elliptical i.e. oval-shaped out-of-focus elements which are unique to anamorphic lenses, and 2x glass at that from what I've seen in the trailer. Why do you mention STID though, are you afraid that anamorphic automatically means some goober off-screen shining a flashlight into the lens to get it to flare like a mofo? Most filmmakers aren't quite that, ah, dedicated to getting that effect, and from what I can see in the trailer the flaring is something that just happens organically (save for the VFX, before Peter corrects me) when on-set lighting passes in front of camera, rather than said goober making it happen. Still looks glorious.

[edit] And the Picard show is apparently happening! Eeek!

[Guydowood]

Patrick Stewart's statement regarding the return of Picard.

I will always be very proud to have been a part of Star Trek: The Next Generation, but when we wrapped that final movie in the spring of 2002, I truly felt my time with Star Trek had run its natural course. It is, therefore, an unexpected but delightful surprise to find myself excited and invigorated to be returning to Jean-Luc Picard and to explore new dimensions within him. Seeking out new life for him, when I thought that life was over.

During these past years, it has been humbling to hear stories about how The Next Generation brought people comfort, saw them through difficult periods in their lives or how the example of Jean-Luc inspired so many to follow in his footsteps, pursuing science, exploration and leadership. I feel I'm ready to return to him for the same reason – to research and experience what comforting and reforming light he might shine on these often very dark times. I look forward to working with our brilliant creative team as we endeavor to bring a fresh, unexpected and pertinent story to life once more.

[ShellBeacher]

Yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Have been going through TNG again in anticipation of this news breaking, in HD/streaming...it's like watching it for the first time again, and I don't think I ever saw every single episode anyway. Stewart sells every episode, even those early season "problem" episodes... he's a treasure. Excited to see what they do with him! I think it would be really cool to see (what I expect will be) a melding of classic TNG aesthetics and Discovery-esque blends of production design for a future-era show that hopefully will reintroduce classic Picard, but also give him some interesting stuff to work with...or as Rocky said..."maybe there's still some stuff in the basement."

There are still stories to tell...

[Geoff D]

What sort of format will it be, I wonder? He's too old to be galloping around the cosmos, Stewart being 15 years older than Shatner when he last assayed Kirk on-screen in Generations.

[Guydowood]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What sort of format will it be, I wonder? He's too old to be galloping around the cosmos, Stewart being 15 years older than Shatner when he last assayed Kirk on-screen in Generations.

hard to say but if going by his statement it sounds as if this should all take place post the Nemesis film and one would awesome he is no longer Captain of the Enterprise and perhaps a Grand Admiral or retired and somehow Starfleet needs him back. It will be interesting to see how this goes and once it goes into production (which is also unknown at this point) the official plot analysis will get released. If he is no longer leading the Enterprise then I guess he didn't listen to Kirk's advice of "Don't let them promote you".....lol

[L-Rouge]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What sort of format will it be, I wonder? He's too old to be galloping around the cosmos, Stewart being 15 years older than Shatner when he last assayed Kirk on-screen in Generations.

Could be Admiral in the rumoured "Starfleet Academy" scenario?

[L-Rouge]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

All lenses have their own kind of bokeh, I'm talking about the specific elliptical i.e. oval-shaped out-of-focus elements which are unique to anamorphic lenses, and 2x glass at that from what I've seen in the trailer. Why do you mention STID though, are you afraid that anamorphic automatically means some goober off-screen shining a flashlight into the lens to get it to flare like a mofo? Most filmmakers aren't quite that, ah, dedicated to getting that effect, and from what I can see in the trailer the flaring is something that just happens organically (save for the VFX, before Peter corrects me) when on-set lighting passes in front of camera, rather than said goober making it happen. Still looks glorious.

[edit] And the Picard show is apparently happening! Eeek!

I read that in a gangster voice.