Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500

[RalphoR]

It's looking like the Cambridge unit is becoming a better bargain every day If the 500 is coming in at a grand the 800 is going to make most cringe.
That Zero Signal Terminal is interesting on the 500, though. Must be a new line of receivers coming out that can harmonize with it. Does anyone know if there will be an actual audible benefit from it?

[Robert Zohn]

The Zero Signal Terminal will eliminate any ground noise interference.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

It's looking like the Cambridge unit is becoming a better bargain every day If the 500 is coming in at a grand the 800 is going to make most cringe.
That Zero Signal Terminal is interesting on the 500, though. Must be a new line of receivers coming out that can harmonize with it. Does anyone know if there will be an actual audible benefit from it?

Their previous document for the 2014/2015 players discussed it.

See https://pioneer.com.sg/sg/files/broc...gue%202014.pdf

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

If you're an owner of an OPPO 203/205 or a Cambridge CXUHD is there anything about this new Pioneer (or the new Panasonic) that screams you have to upgrade? Is it just a lateral move?

This is just a guess: So far we just don't know enough.
But with time, more reviews, we will.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I realize Panasonic wants to capitalize on the HDR optimizer marketing but you can't make that the definite reason for a UHD BD player except in certain situations.

In a 4K player that's the main reason: Picture Quality compatible with all displays and projectors...universal picture compatibility, and reliability of course, including support.

For movies the audio is through HDMI, so there isn't much variation between different players, unless some magic sauce was implemented to reduce HDMI jitter...that kind of audio jazz.

For music listening best is an analog turntable with record albums.
Or an open-reel tape deck.

For SACD, Sony makes $100 SACD players that sound pretty good.
For DVD Audio, eBay.

For streaming all movies and music...Panasonic and Pioneer. ...Sony too, LG, Samsung.
Or, add a separate movie/music server/streamer if one is not supplied/supported with your player.

But numero uno in a 4K Blu-ray player is the 4K picture quality.
Then the rest of the features depends of each user.

Oppo will last forever, we will never forget. It's just too bad what happened, but oppefully it's not for eternity; Oppo Digital might resurrect twenty years or so from now, when 16K will be the norm and 3D in 8K resolution.

Evolution is part of man's path into the future, and everything else that comes with it. The best is yet to come.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

It's looking like the Cambridge unit is becoming a better bargain every day If the 500 is coming in at a grand the 800 is going to make most cringe.

FYI both Cambridge Audio and Pioneer have their own corresponding AVR line. The BDP-LX500 and the CXUHD are paired to work with them. For enthusiasts the players prices are not unacceptable. Usually you are paying more for given quality/functionality.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I've tested it on LG and Sony OLED TVs, several Sony, LG and Samsung LCD TVs and a few projectors with excellent results every time. No other BD player was able to perform as well with HDR10 content on every TV. One example is seeing the gradual smooth transition of the bright sky with all of the detail that the sky looks like in real life.

I've done this demo with many folks who have stopped into our showroom to see our engineering production UB820 and UB9000 in person.

Now it's true that I have not tested it with every HDR capable TV and projector so I can't make claims it will give this high performance on ever HDR TV. But this a new revolutionary feature for the video enthusiast and movie loving community.

Sorry to be discussing this on the Pioneer thread. So let's move any further comments to the UB820 and or UB9000 threads.

Robert, you touched the essence.

As for you last paragraph; thank God we are not under the Gestapo and SS regime here.
We have a new Pioneer 4K Blu-ray player coming up, so is a 9000 from Panasonic.
If I go to your store in New York you won't impose on me, you won't restrict me of talking about various players so that I can get a better perspective. That's real life between real friends having real discussions for real learning and real relationships between real customers and real audio/video dealers. I know so, I've been there, back and forth, as you do too.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Indeed... But sadly this player does not offer multi-channel analogue outputs

But it does offer streaming.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Indeed... But sadly this player does not offer multi-channel analogue outputs

You are one of the fortunate few lucky ones; you have an Oppo 203 player.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

JohnAV, is correct, just reconfirmed the UPD-LX500 has 2 RCA analog audio outputs, not 7.1. Sorry my original information was incorrect. Nice to see Japan works on Saturday.

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Shame

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Clearly by this mid June image from a rumor site states Pioneer was making a two tier product line as before with intended competition targets.

Let me ask you this (last two above) and I already know the answer; but I'll ask anyway for the trillions more Oppo owners: are you using the multichannel analog output of your 203?

Do you really think it's going to stop future customers of purchasing this new universal Pioneer 4K Blu-ray player?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by B-52 Bass

I want this but $550 is my limit A $1000is waaay out of my bracket. They really need to stop playing and make these players more affordable

In the OPPO UDP-203 thread I quoted a article that mentioned that one of the reasons why OPPO stopped production on the UDP-203 and UDP-205 earlier then normal, was because of inflation on high quality Chinese parts (OPPO Blu-ray players are priced locked for the life of the player). When inflation occurs a manufacture either needs to up the price on the product or remove features like 7.1 analog outputs, or reduce the quality of the components to keep the price lower. If OPPO Digital INC would have continued in the consumer electronics business a second generation 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player might have had a list price of $800-1,000+ depending on what features would have been offered.


I am very glad Pioneer and Panasonic are making high-end 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players with a list price of $999. Pioneer Elite flagship Blu-ray players at one time sold for a $2,000 list price. Also the $999 list price on the Pioneer and Panasonic are not price locked and possible a year after launch could see a $899 or $799 street price if inflation does not occur to much in the next year or so.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Nice to see competition on feature sets, but price points on the two levels significantly higher than Oppo prices. Oppo 203 $549, Pioneer LX500 $999.

The 203 is fixed (price), the 500 is not (list). We all know what it means.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The 203 is fixed (price), the 500 is not (list). We all know what it means.

Some do.

New readers do not.

And Pioneer prices could increase if Tariffs cause USA price increases.

[LordoftheRings]

I wouldn't underestimate new reader's knowledge, I just would not.

[HDTV1080P]

Pioneer is known for making the best plasma displays (they went out of production in April of 2009) and some of the best A/V receivers on the market. However in the past according to several professional reviews the OPPO Blu-ray players were better Blu-ray players when compared to Pioneer Elite Blu-ray players (Possible, maybe that all can change with the Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500). When a professional review from Sound and Vision magazine or Widescreen Review comes out for the Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500 the reviewer most likely well compare it to the reference discontinued OPPO UDP-203 or OPPO UDP-205 to see which player is better. The Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500 if it does launch in October of 2018 without delay, it well become the only 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player in production that offers the SACD and DVD-AUDIO feature (It is my understanding that all other 2016 and 2017 universal 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players are out of production for the North American market).



It is disappointing that the current BETA spec sheet mentions that the Pioneer BDP-LX500 well not have 7.1 analog audio outputs and instead only 2 channel analog audio outputs. Offering 7.1 analog audio outputs would have most likely raised the list price another $100+, and most people including me use HDMI instead. However, it was smart for Pioneer to at least have 2 channel analog outputs on this Blu-ray player, since that feature is needed for the Pioneer Elite muti-room zone 2 and 3 features found on most A/V receivers (most multi room zone A/V receivers still require analog stereo inputs and well not accept a stereo digital input).



For the European region B version of this Pioneer BDP-LX500 it has a worldwide power supply of 110-240 volts at 50-60Hz, most likely that same power supply well be ported over to the North America region A model. The Panasonic region A Blu-ray player is listed as only 120 volts at 60Hz (plus Panasonic does not support SACD and DVD-AUDIO discs). Looks like there is at least one USB 2.0 front and one USB 2.0 rear interface on the Pioneer BDP-LX500 (The OPPO UDP-203 has two USB 3.0 rear jacks and one USB 2.0 front jack). Hopefully 1Gbps networking well be supported on the Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500 instead of just 100Mbps networking. Even though I am a Pioneer fan, I am disappointed that the specs on this Pioneer player in terms of input and output jacks is not as good when compared to a OPPO UDP-203. For a player that is almost double the price at the minimum the input and output jacks should be the same or better. Pioneer Elite products are engineered in Japan and manufactured in China using high end Chinese parts. Pioneer Elite products also come with a 3 year parts and labor warranty.



Regardless of what the professional review says once released, the Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500 well become the best in production universal 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player on the market for those that need both SACD and DVD-AUDIO support (The reason is there is no longer any other universal 4K models to choose from unless someone else decides to make a universal player for the North America market). If 20th Century Fox and other studios decide to release 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs with HDR10+ then for existing OPPO UDP-203/UDP-205 owners to consider upgrading their Blu-ray player, then Pioneer needs to issue a HDR10+ firmware update to the BDP-LX500. Unless the Pioneer BDP-LX500 receives a HDR10+ firmware update at this time it appears the OPPO UDP-203 is a better universal 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player (pending an official professional review, but the input and output jacks are better on the OPPO UDP-203 before the review even starts).

[JohnAV]

Some images from audionet.com of the Pioneer UDP-LX500. Yes it shows AK4490EQ being used for DAC. The SoC is likely a MT8581 as you see the companion MT8577A in a image below.

Specific link https://www.audionet.com.tw/thread-10922-1-1.html









More images on their site please visit them.

[JohnAV]

Here is a translated link of the above UDP-LX500 teardown article from previous post

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

[sa5150]

How does this DAC compare to some of the top players Oppo,Panasonic and Sony units ?
How about video processing ?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by sa5150

How does this DAC compare to some of the top players Oppo,Panasonic and Sony units ?
How about video processing ?

Lets discuss Audio differences, as the video differences are typically discussed in these threads a bit too much.

The Oppo UDP-205 is considered best in its class for audiophiles. It's equipped with two ESS Technology ES9038PRO DACs for both stereo and 7.1 channel analog audio. The ES9038PRO is the flagship of the ESS PRO series. It sets a new benchmark for audio excellence with its best-in-class 140 dB of dynamic range in a 32-bit, 8-channel DAC.

The Panasonic UB9000 model is using the AK4493 DAC Dynamic range, S/N: 123dB, THD+N: -113dB

The Sony x1000 model is using some high performance 32 bit DAC (DSD 11.2 MHz, LPCM 192kHz capable) are the only details I find.

The previous Pioneer BDP-LX88 was using the ESS SABRE32 Reference DAC (ES9018) which is from an earlier generation of players (Oppo 105 for example)

I expect Pioneer to choose the latest Reference DAC for the unannounced UDP-LX800 compared to Panasonic using the AK4493EQ for its top player.

The Pioneer UDP-LX500 will be using the AK4490EQ DAC.

So if you want to compare the AK4493EQ to the AK4490EQ
DR, S/N 123 db compared to 120 db
THD+N -113 db compared to -112 db.
Sampling Rate 8kHz to 768kHz compared to 30kHz to 768kHz

Yes between the two AK DACs not much difference!

So I'd wait for the UDP-LX800 if you can't get a reserved final run Oppo UDP-205 if your an audiophile. Yes both are SACD/DVD-A capable.

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks for breaking this down!

I've always wondered if the average human ear/brain can discern the differences between S/N of 120 db and 123 db or THD+N of -113 db and -112 db. Maybe an otologist can pipe in and tell us.

I my high-end 2-channel critical listening system the big advantage I can appreciate is the large dynamic tonal range and clarity and detail of every note. My strong suite if video, but I would think some of the advantages I'm enjoying are related to the Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise spec of my system.