Calibration Tales

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

I disagree with your entire post.

especially this:



its quite obvious you are not very informed on the subject, but your opinion is your opinion. Thanks.

I read your sticky, an excellent start to an interesting thread, and it appears that you agree with me wholeheartedly.

Another way is to use a Calibration DVD. This is a very simple way to "do it yourself" and is very inexpensive compared to an ISF calibration. Although it is not as thorough and precise as the ISF, it can be very beneficial to each and every television. There are a couple of different calibration dvd's out there, but two of the most popular are Digital Video Essentials and AVIA Guide to Home Theater. You could potentially save yourself money in the long run by owning a calibration DVD, not to mention producing a much better looking picture. NOTE: The DVD versions will help you adjust for standard definition but may not be ideal with an HD source.

You're welcome.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

and it appears that you agree with me wholeheartedly.

read into that a little more carefully:

Another way is to use a Calibration DVD. This is a very simple way to "do it yourself" and is very inexpensive compared to an ISF calibration. Although it is not as thorough and precise as the ISF, it can be very beneficial to each and every television.

...using a calibration disc gets the owner to take his TV off the torch mode factory presets.



Simple fact that you believe the average user can adjust his/her settings to near perfection disqualifies the entire statement.

For one, some manufacturers do not offer a selectable option for each and every individual setting that is used to produce the picture.

Second, the critical settings are often found in the Service Menu. Which the average user should NEVER go into to mess around with.



Third...

Have you ever had a TV professionally calibrated before?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...using a calibration disc gets the owner to take his TV off the torch mode factory presets.

OK, granted. But anyone can do that.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Simple fact that you believe the average user can adjust his/her settings to near perfection disqualifies the entire statement.

WHOA hold on there, Tex...

There is no such thing as "near perfection", as I noted in my post. Remember all the factors I mentioned that affect the picture? Please tell me that you don't think there is "near perfection" in a cable signal, OTA broadcast, or game box hooked up with component cables...

They'll all look different, and viewers will have different preferences for each. Though they probably won't adjust for them.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

For one, some manufacturers do not offer a selectable option for each and every individual setting that is used to produce the picture.

Definitely not, on the low end. But then, I'm sure you're not advising that someone buying a $600 Dynex pay $400 for professional calibration.

On the higher end, those settings are adjustable.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Second, the critical settings are often found in the Service Menu. Which the average user should NEVER go into to mess around with.

Absolutely, 100% agreed. Those settings are for baseline adjustments for major components after service-bench level parts replacement. User settings are "tweaks" for those baseline adjustments, I think we can agree. And on quality equipment (Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp Aquos, LG high end, you name it) those are pretty broad-ranged tweaks, wouldn't you say?

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Third...

Have you ever had a TV professionally calibrated before?

Family member bought the Best Buy calibration, for the same set I have (his is the XBR 46", versus my 52", otherwise the same). The results were fantastic.

It looked just as good as mine.

Which has been adjusted (not calibrated beforehand...simply adjusted) by my own amateurish hands.

Look, here's my beef. I simply won't agree that quality televisions are so far off the baseline that it takes a 10% upcharge in cost for a new HDTV owner to get what he paid for; that is a stunning indictment of the quality and engineering that goes into decent equipment. It simply is not borne out by my experience, or people who, like me, are extremely critical of expensive electronics.

I know that quality varies by manufacturer, and even model line; I also concede that production line quality can vary, even vary widely. But it's simply going to retard adoption of HD video when people who aren't as technical as we are get the impression that a service must be performed that is 10% to 20% the price of their device, just to get it to the point where it looks good. That does not match facts in the real world, even for videophiles.

I will also state that if this is a real need, sets need to come with light meters and safe user adjustments to get this process done. A TV serviceman can come out and fix my set for less than $200. But simply to adjust it costs two or three times that much? This makes no sense.

I spent my time in the military operating and maintaining radar gear, and the first decade of my working career working in a very well known research laboratory, constantly calibrating test equipment of all kinds. The need for calibration of equipment is obvious to me. I also know the difference between baseline calibration, and adjustment, and the effects of calibration drift.

Consumer equipment generally requires far less tolerance of calibration error than the stuff I used then, though some of the consumer electronics I see now are far more reliable than others. If we want to talk calibration, we must also discuss the maintenance and test cycle for this stuff - something I've not heard once in any of these threads.

I've actually performed calibration, on some pretty exotic stuff. I don't do it on my Sony sets; there's no need.

Have you ever done calibration on electronics, personally?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

WHOA hold on there, Tex...

There is no such thing as "near perfection"

Color (Gamma) has a specific number value. One aspect of "Perfection" is accurately reproducing each and every color for that specific given value. If you cannot reproduce this, than you do not have perfection. No TV that I know of can accurately reproduce every single color. Usually this would require an external video processor. But those can go for thousands of dollars. But this is one reason why the term "near perfection" is used. Regardless of the source, if your tv cannot decode red, green, blue etc correctly then you do not have accuracy.

ISF calibration gets you as close as your TV is physically capable of.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Color (Gamma) has a specific number value. One aspect of "Perfection" is accurately reproducing each and every color for that specific given value. If you cannot reproduce this, than you do not have perfection. No TV that I know of can accurately reproduce every single color. Usually this would require an external video processor. But those can go for thousands of dollars. But this is one reason why the term "near perfection" is used. Regardless of the source, if your tv cannot decode red, green, blue etc correctly then you do not have accuracy.

ISF calibration gets you as close as your TV is physically capable of.

I was going to argue about something, but after reading this closely, I have to agree.

I will note, however, that these settings will be a baseline upon which every normal human being will fiddle - based on other conditions. Something tells me that any tech, or user, ISF certified or not, will go beyond ideal settings to account for non-perfect input and environmental factors.

I get a signal generator, send in the wave, test the output in total darkness, and get chroma and temperature dialed. Then I open the drapes, hook up the Wii, and everything goes to hell, so I start fiddling. Bye bye, baseline.

I still think it's hellaciously subjective.