Halloween 4K UHD (1978)

[Colson]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Mono should ideally come only from the center speaker -- and it's not just for "purist" reasons, either. Running these tracks from the left/right mains or in an "all channel stereo" mode where dialogue and everything comes from all the speakers in the system -- and believe me, I have vast experience experimenting with these mixes on old DVDs -- causes very strange shifts in the soundfield...especially when running them from the left/right mains (doing so causes a noticeable "comb filtering" effect wherein the dialogue gets lost between the speakers and everything sounds really strange).

Forget about running a mono mix through all speakers of a system; it's an atrocious decision and awful way to listen to the track.

I usually run my mono tracks through the front L and R speakers rather than through the center speaker, simply because my L and R speakers are huge and much better than my center speaker, as a general rule. More a failing of my system than anything. One of these days I'll upgrade the whole setup...

I haven't noticed any problems with this method, though. Sound seems to come from the center, because my speakers are positioned more or less correctly.

[TB5918]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

Also, you can clearly see Michael in his mask driving the car and staring at Laurie and her friends now thanks to the 4k detail. Lots of little things like that you can notice now.

The detail is great! I loved seeing the scene where Michael drives past Loomis. He actually looks both ways before turning onto the street! What a surprisingly conscientious driver...

[fairmat]

Originally Posted by Vorhees13

Apologies if this has been shared, but thought this was pretty good.

▶ Comparison of Halloween 4K Dolby Vision vs Halloween Blu Ray Edition - YouTube

It was this video that was the deciding factor in me ordering the 4K! I'm tentative to order older titles in 4K, but this looks way better than the 35th anniversary edition.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Colson

I usually run my mono tracks through the front L and R speakers rather than through the center speaker, simply because my L and R speakers are huge and much better than my center speaker, as a general rule. More a failing of my system than anything. One of these days I'll upgrade the whole setup...

I haven't noticed any problems with this method, though. Sound seems to come from the center, because my speakers are positioned more or less correctly.

The "my left and right speakers are huge" and/or "better than my center" is the usual argument for pushing these tracks through those channels -- but ideally they should come from the center, as in a surround setup even two-channel mono tracks are appropriately dropped into the center channel via a Pro Logic II system or the like. Dialogue should ideally always come from the center front to provide the illusion that it's originating from the actors on screen (unless there's off-screen dialogue taking place, of course, which could come from anywhere in the sound field).

Strange that you don't get the comb filtering effect playing mono tracks from the left and right fronts -- almost every system I've heard, even those with expertly-placed, toed-in and spaced left/right mains, exhibit this off-putting effect when dialogue stems, action, foley and everything else is stuffed and divided between the front channels.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thanks for that!

Very interesting comparison; seems like, at least in the outdoor sequences, the 4K transfer brightens up the image compared to the 35th Anniversary Blu, almost lifting a veil off of it...

There's a noticeable increase in fine detail, particularly in wide-angled shots, regardless if it's day or night time sequences.

Lionsgate did a fine job with this.

But hey, don't 'upgrade' or whatever, since the pumpkin during the opening credits isn't as orange or some shit.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

There's a noticeable increase in fine detail, particularly in wide-angled shots, regardless if it's day or night time sequences.

Lionsgate did a fine job with this.

But hey, don't 'upgrade' or whatever, since the pumpkin during the opening credits isn't as orange or some shit.

What's your deal today, man?

[Colson]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

The "my left and right speakers are huge" and/or "better than my center" is the usual argument for pushing these tracks through those channels -- but ideally they should come from the center, as in a surround setup even two-channel mono tracks are appropriately dropped into the center channel via a Pro Logic II system or the like. Dialogue should ideally always come from the center front to provide the illusion that it's originating from the actors on screen (unless there's off-screen dialogue taking place, of course, which could come from anywhere in the sound field).

Strange that you don't get the comb filtering effect playing mono tracks from the left and right fronts -- almost every system I've heard, even those with expertly-placed, toed-in and spaced left/right mains, exhibit this off-putting effect when dialogue stems, action, foley and everything else is stuffed and divided between the front channels.

Regarding dialog coming from the center: the fact that it comes identically from both front speakers makes it sound as though it is coming from the center, same as if it were coming from the center.

Perhaps you could explain this combing effect a bit more; maybe I should listen for it intentionally to see if it's there.

[MikeRoda]

Originally Posted by barrycameron

I've read a lot of silly comments in my life, but some of the silliest have been in this thread.

How can the amount of grain on a UHD ruin your experience of this classic movie? Were you brought up with so many silver spoons that you didn't live in a time where we had to wait until it was on TV to record it on a badly worn VHS? And then when the VHS is getting more worn, it gets to a point where you can hardly see anything on the screen, yet you still watch it and LOVE IT!!

Jesus people. it's a 4K transfer regardless of how many grains you can see.

As for the audio: If you can't hear it properly, turn the volume up. JEE!! SUS!

I did grow up in the time you describe, but here is my point. I've already owned the original bd of this film, which looked stunning, since then I've upgraded my home theatre to 4K and spent over $7K on it, so when this titled was announced I was thrilled to re-buy it. The end result is, I'll say it again, a downgrade from the original bd. No point of sugarcoating it. I'm posting this here to help people make a better decision. Buy the original BD if you truly want to be wowed by this film and regular HD is, as of now, the only way to do it. This 4K disc should have never been released.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Colson

Regarding dialog coming from the center: the fact that it comes identically from both front speakers makes it sound as though it is coming from the center, same as if it were coming from the center.

Believe me -- it's not the same thing as the track coming just from the center channel solely.

Perhaps you could explain this combing effect a bit more; maybe I should listen for it intentionally to see if it's there.

Here's one link I stumbled upon; look down towards the middle of the page where they talk about the comb filtering effect...I can research some more for you if you'd like:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/newb...atibility.html

Notably:

Mono out of 2 speakers gives you massive comb filtering. Just play some pink or white noise and move your head side to side and hear for yourself how drastically the sound changes. That's never an issue with single speaker "true" mono, which is why I prefer one speaker for mono.

The comb filtering won't be a problem with headphones because your ears will be fixed equidistant from the drivers (assuming you wear them correctly), so that's not a bad way to go.

* I see now that this wasn't that great of an explanation regarding comb filtering; let me see if I can dig up more info...

In a proverbial nutshell, comb filtering causes a strange "echo" effect when playing, say, 2.0 mono (or 1.0 mono) tracks from the two main channels...I've heard it on every one of my systems, like clockwork, and even (as I stated) heard it on demo setups at trade shows when gear was "expertly set up." The dialogue sounds downright WEIRD coming from the two mains; it's difficult to describe, but comb filtering is most off-putting.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

What's your deal today, man?

"What's YOUR Deal?" - Harbaugh and Carroll After 2009 Stanford-USC Game - YouTube

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Colson

I usually run my mono tracks through the front L and R speakers rather than through the center speaker, simply because my L and R speakers are huge and much better than my center speaker, as a general rule. More a failing of my system than anything. One of these days I'll upgrade the whole setup...

I haven't noticed any problems with this method, though. Sound seems to come from the center, because my speakers are positioned more or less correctly.

Weirdly my KEF center is the beefy one out of my set up (amazing used deal)
I run the mono thru that.

[MikeRoda]

Originally Posted by slimdude

I don't think you understand the image of 4K! 4K have an tendency to make film grain more apparent because, of its higher 2160 resolution. On a standard 1080p Blu-ray, the grain doesn't show as much. The standard Blu-ray disc is included with the 4K, you can see it for yourself. Besides, Halloween was John Carpenter's first film, and it was not a big budget production. Halloween was a B movie.

That's not true. Take the original Spider-man, the original bd of that film was horrible, in my opinion, the amount of grain made it impossible for me to watch. Then It came out on 4k, I grabbed it and was, again extremely disappointed by the amount of grain, that appeared moving on the screen, However, the big surprise was with the attached regular bd to the 4k, that was perfection.

I own over 40 4K discs and most of them are spectacular and grain free, including many back catalog titles. But honestly, for me, the deal breaker for Halloween in 4K was how pale it looked. dead. no colors. Can't watch it.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

"What's YOUR Deal?" - Harbaugh and Carroll After 2009 Stanford-USC Game - YouTube

MY deal?

I'm just going by the way you're responding to people on here today, pal.

I get what you mean when you say:

People crying about audio on a UHD release. What else is new. Not to mention that guy’s post was within the context of PQ.

Also, I’ll use that word any time I please. Because this place can be absolute cancer at times. As evident in the last several pages of this thread.


...because the reference to "cancer" can indeed be an accurate one when describing what goes on in this forum at times (and depending on the thread). I will give you that.

It's just a little harsh to read when someone may have been personally touched by the affliction, or lost many relatives/friends/spouse et al to the "big casino" as it's called. That's all I'm pointing out.

However, the reference to insulting the other member for not being able to afford something was uncalled for IMO.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by MikeRoda

That's not true. Take the original Spider-man, the original bd of that film was horrible, in my opinion, the amount of grain made it impossible for me to watch. Then It came out on 4k, I grabbed it and was, again extremely disappointed by the amount of grain, that appeared moving on the screen, However, the big surprise was with the attached regular bd to the 4k, that was perfection.

I own over 40 4K discs and most of them are spectacular and grain free, including many back catalog titles. But honestly, for me, the deal breaker for Halloween in 4K was how pale it looked. dead. no colors. Can't watch it.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

I run the mono thru that.

As you should...

[Colson]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Believe me -- it's not the same thing as the track coming just from the center channel solely.



Here's one link I stumbled upon; look down towards the middle of the page where they talk about the comb filtering effect...I can research some more for you if you'd like:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/newb...atibility.html

Notably:

Mono out of 2 speakers gives you massive comb filtering. Just play some pink or white noise and move your head side to side and hear for yourself how drastically the sound changes. That's never an issue with single speaker "true" mono, which is why I prefer one speaker for mono.

The comb filtering won't be a problem with headphones because your ears will be fixed equidistant from the drivers (assuming you wear them correctly), so that's not a bad way to go.

* I see now that this wasn't that great of an explanation regarding comb filtering; let me see if I can dig up more info...

In a proverbial nutshell, comb filtering causes a strange "echo" effect when playing, say, 2.0 mono (or 1.0 mono) tracks from the two main channels...I've heard it on every one of my systems, like clockwork, and even (as I stated) heard it on demo setups at trade shows when gear was "expertly set up." The dialogue sounds downright WEIRD coming from the two mains; it's difficult to describe, but comb filtering is most off-putting.

Ah, the moving your head side to side bit actually does clarify it. Yeah, that happens with my setup. I guess it doesn't bother me?

Until I get a nicer center speaker (hopefully soon!) I'll keep doing it the way I'm doing it, but I appreciate the clarification. I do concede that mono from one speaker is (obviously) the superior way to go, I only do it the way I do it because my center speaker buckles when there is music + sound effects + dialog, etc. Just not clear enough in those circumstances.

On that subject, any recommendations for nice center speakers? I suppose I'd have to upgrade the whole setup, but if I could get away with just swapping the center speaker, I'd love to, as I do love my L and R speakers.

[RustinCohle]

Just saw the AMC Theatres programming memo. They will be playing this Wednesday and Thursday the 10th and 11th at 7:30. Tickets should be on sale ASAP.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Colson

Ah, the moving your head side to side bit actually does clarify it. Yeah, that happens with my setup. I guess it doesn't bother me?

Until I get a nicer center speaker (hopefully soon!) I'll keep doing it the way I'm doing it, but I appreciate the clarification. I do concede that mono from one speaker is (obviously) the superior way to go, I only do it the way I do it because my center speaker buckles when there is music + sound effects + dialog, etc. Just not clear enough in those circumstances.

Mono was designed to be played from one speaker, even from the days of classic theater presentations (many have argued that speakers were placed originally around a theater and that the mono tracks were played from all of them simultaneously, but it's not true. Most, if not all, theatrical mono presentations were made via speakers near or behind the screen to nail the dialogue to that position). Now, BELIEVE me, I originally agreed that mono sounds "too weak" or "not powerful enough" when coming just from the center position -- after all, we have these awesome surround setups and we're only using one channel for these films/mixes. But after a LOT of experimenting with sound field modes and switching back and forth between the number of speakers used, I came to conclude and accept that these older mono soundtracks BELONG and sound best in the center channel; it's why I have my AVR set to take two-channel signals and drop them into the center via Pro Logic II (which works great for stereo surround mixes but drops the entire track of a 2.0 mono mix into the center only).

Additionally -- after watching an old film with its mono track coming from the center only, it really makes you appreciate the full force satisfaction of a 5.1+-channel soundtrack if you listen to one immediately following the older title.

If your center buckles during mono playback because all elements are being pushed through it -- music, foley, dialogue, etc. -- you definitely need to beef this part of your system up. However, my center slightly distorts a bit whenever I push the volume of these mono mixes up too high -- you have to be careful with the volume sometimes. So there is some validity in your observations.

On that subject, any recommendations for nice center speakers? I suppose I'd have to upgrade the whole setup, but if I could get away with just swapping the center speaker, I'd love to, as I do love my L and R speakers.

Ideally, your center, left and right channels should be timbre-matched from the same brand and same line of speaker; what are you running as your mains?

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by MikeRoda

That's not true. Take the original Spider-man, the original bd of that film was horrible, in my opinion, the amount of grain made it impossible for me to watch. Then It came out on 4k, I grabbed it and was, again extremely disappointed by the amount of grain, that appeared moving on the screen, However, the big surprise was with the attached regular bd to the 4k, that was perfection.

Movies (in general) are going to have grain because it's film, unless you're watching home videos that's been made with a camcorder.

Originally Posted by MikeRoda

I own over 40 4K discs and most of them are spectacular and grain free, including many back catalog titles. But honestly, for me, the deal breaker for Halloween in 4K was how pale it looked. dead. no colors. Can't watch it.

Well the best thing I can tell is to resell it on ebay as a used item and take a small loss, or give it to somebody as a gift... A man's junk is another man's treasure!

[Dickieduvet]

Received my UK copy today, just watched the first 10 minutes...

Anyone else noticing the horrendous and clearly obvious banding issue? It starts about 3:15 as Michael is prowling outside the Myers house and continues & worsens as he enters the back of the house.

Never seen anything like this on a UHD before, the black area at the bottom of the screen is darkening in steps upwards as the shot pans.

Happens in a few shots of the Smith's Grove section too.

I've had a brief look through the rest of the film and haven't seen it anywhere else.

Anyone else with the UK disc confirm this issue? Surely if it was on the US release somebody would've mentioned it.

Thanks