Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Why do you want to know, you are a Disc guy? Vilya's Specs says 11+Mbps, but it depends on your Bandwidth. It starts off low, and goes up to the maximum and I think Upload and Latency plays a big part in the Bitrate. If you have Netflix you can check this out, they have a good Bitrate checker. Vudu does have a big collection of 4K Movies.

"Disc guys" are allowed to use streaming services. It's the law; look it up. Even I use them.

Bandwidth is not an issue here. Regardless of your ISP's excess bandwidth, Vudu streams UHD content at 11 Mbps and that is the requirement given on THEIR webpage. A Vudu engineer on THEIR forum webpage further states that their maximum/peak bitrates are 15 Mbps for UHD content. You do know what the word "maximum" means, don't you? This same engineer also states that their AVERAGES could be lower than that.

The bitrates do not go above the MAXIMUMS just because your ISP has greater bandwidth. Maximums ARE maximums.

Maximum:

"the greatest quantity or amount possible."

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/maximum

These are Vudu's "specs", not mine.

Sheesh...

[Vilya]

And Vudu lists their requirement as 11 Mbps, not 11"+." The Rtings.com website lists 11+Mbps, but not Vudu itself, to indicate that there is some fluctuation involved, thus the concept of averages vs. peaks.

Rtings.com only uses the "+" symbol with two streaming sources: Vudu and Fandango Now. All other streaming sources show specific bitrates, probably due to the consistency of them as opposed to the somewhat more variable Vudu and Fandango Now.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Neither do most of you guys according to John Sciacca, Sound & Vision. Most of us have Media Rooms, as opposed to Home Theaters dedicated to watching Movies.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

One can see my equipment list by clicking the RED in my signature line but I will do a short recap for you. I use a true 4K (4096) projector with a 133" scope screen in a dedicated home theater room with 100% light control. Floors, walls and ceiling are very low light reflecting surfaces and have been treated to have a low RT60 down to 500 Hz. The sound system has a dedicated Dolby Atmos/DTS:X processor setup and uses 13 loudspeakers driven by 6 stereo and 2 mono audio amplifiers. The system is capable of over 3,600 watts of audio power. I have a dedicated 30 amp AC for equipment, a semi dedicated 20 amp AC for sub-woofers and a dedicated 15 amp AC for lighting. My setup is modest by some standards but exceeds what many others have. Remember my comment about Einstein and the law of relativity?

Because you said you were a vet I tried my best to educate you a little about audio and video quality so you would stop making ridiculous post here and having folks laugh at you. In all my years of BBSing (private, CompuServe, AOL, numerous internet BBS) you are the second person I have dealt with that appeared to be incapable of learning anything. I would like you to prove me wrong, the ball is in your court!

Yes, that's why I said most and not all, I thought you might have a dedicated Home Theater. I use to have an elaborate Sound System, but as you get older and compromise with priorities you have to pick and choose. That's why for my needs my set up is ideal, and the Quality is all I need. You have mentioned CompuServe a couple of time that was one of my Priority Customers as well as an OnLine Resource. As for Streaming I go back to DVD Back-ups putting them on a Local Server, and Streaming to my HDTV. I wrote to Home Theater Magazine, which is Sound & Vision now about Network Electronics before they added Networking on them. So I saw Streaming coming many years ago. To me it's just the natural order of things.....Networks and Servers!

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Groot

But you need the other stories that form the other stories? Why would you care about Y & Z's drama if you have no idea about A & B's motives? You can do highlights because you're aware of the narrative and story and watch the full thing later. Otherwise, it becomes a nonsensical mess unless you watch everyone's 15-20 minute highlights, which at that point you've watched the entire episode anyway thereby making this pointless.

[Vilya]

I may not have a "dedicated" home theater as I have everything except for a projector, but I am committed to it just the same.

I hope I am not going to come down with a case of projector envy! Feelings of inadequacy are so unbecoming for a man of my years.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

The same could be said for gaming. You can’t pick and choose. You are either pro physical across the board or you aren’t. Otherwise you are holding others to standards you arent following yourself.

No it couldn’t. I seek out quality, I find. You do realise gaming is identical. Of course you do, you just want to post your usual (imo) wise ass posts.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I may not have a "dedicated" home theater as I have everything except for a projector, but I am committed to it just the same.

I hope I am not going to come down with a case of projector envy! Feelings of inadequacy are so unbecoming for a man of my years.

Why dont you get a projector? It would make sense with your vast collection. I have plenty of recommendations if you need them.

[brap hawg]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Does anyone know what the quality of VUDU's UHD streams are like? On a fast 200mbps 'high-speed cable' connection?

Why do you care? If you are are going to consume a show or movie via streaming then you obviously don't care about quality.
I don't think they should be allowed to call it an "UHD" stream, as even the """""UHD""""" streams have a fraction of the bitrate of even a regular blu-ray, a disc which was released in 2006.
It is one of the ways the industry is sabotaging physical releases and lying to get people to switch to digital, these streaming companies are allowed to call their streams HD and UHD even though they aren't when compared to discs that call them self HD and UHD.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by brap hawg

Why do you care? If you are are going to consume a show or movie via streaming then you obviously don't care about quality.
I don't think they should be allowed to call it an "UHD" stream, as even the """""UHD""""" streams have a fraction of the bitrate of even a regular blu-ray, a disc which was released in 2006.
It is one of the ways the industry is sabotaging physical releases and lying to get people to switch to digital, these streaming companies are allowed to call their streams HD and UHD even though they aren't when compared to discs that call them self HD and UHD.

My personal opinion is that they are UHD in colour only. Sometimes, background detail is ******* abysmal! It’s not uncommon (imo) to see digital HD with huge chunks of pixelation also.

Disc every time.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Groot

They need to be bought out or merge and have some minor store changes, but they have kinda flatlined on the loss front. It's not getting worse, growth just isn't getting better to make a huge difference yet. But book sales as a whole aren't down that much. Second tier shops like Half Price are growing. I don't think, at least not until e-ink is a better, that book stores are gonna disappear. Independent book stores are even making a comeback, same for vinyl stores.

I am definitely rooting for them as my wife and I still buy books from them, whether on their website or brick and mortar. But I have personally been through the scenario where a White Knight comes in and buys a company that has seen better days. 2 years later, we filed chapter 11. I am not saying that this is a for sure thing, but retail history certainly has cases where it does happen.

My comment about books going away however was tongue in cheek in response to another poster’s logic. I am fairly confident that we will acquire them elsewhere, even if B&N goes under.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I hope I am not going to come down with a case of projector envy!

It is akin to Poison Ivy, once you get it, hard to get rid of.

A just in case you did not know about these places. A/V Science Discussion. Started by the folks that started the original A/V Science Forums. A/V Science Sales here, my contact is Mike Garrett. You can buy stuff here that you will not find in big box stores except Best Buy Magnolia Design Centers. The Design Centers do carry some high end stuff but nothing like A/V Science Sales.

You may be surprised by the picture quality of something like the JVC DLA-NX7 with a MSRP of $8,000 or some of the less expensive Sony models. Lots of stuff to research and think about.

[Vilya]

I have been tempted to buy a projector for a very long time and I may yet do so. I was really hoping to see a model with Dolby Vision come along and maybe that will happen soon, but at what price point? The lifespan and cost of replacement bulbs, or laser light sources, concern me also.

Then there is the screen to buy; I know next to nothing about those presently. I would also have to do some room preparation as everything is far too bright and reflective currently.

The jumbo screen size and the fact that projectors still support 3D is a very big incentive. A project like this would cost a sizable amount to do right and I am uncertain as to how much I need to budget for such an undertaking in total.

I need to update my sound system, too, as my Denon AVR is outdated and I would also want to add more speakers. I haven't shopped for speakers in a very, very long time. Another question is would I even want to stay with AVRs or go all separates again?

Lots of things to consider and much research to be done. Suggestions are always welcome, but best sent in a PM as I do not want to derail the thread.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Does anyone know what the quality of VUDU's UHD streams are like?

Just be aware that streaming hardware requirements is a big CF if you want it all, as in UHD, HR10, Dolby Vision and immersive audio (Dolby Atmos/DTS:X). A AVS member has put together a spreadsheet here.

As to quality, it is all over the map. Some of the recent movie titles can look quite good but you will see some aberrations on occasions. Macro blocking, mosquito noise and banding will be visible.

Most catalog HDX titles, forget about it! Big hit or miss, several of my DVD titles (DVD2HDX) look and sound better than the same title via HDX.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by brap hawg

Why do you care? If you are are going to consume a show or movie via streaming then you obviously don't care about quality.
I don't think they should be allowed to call it an "UHD" stream, as even the """""UHD""""" streams have a fraction of the bitrate of even a regular blu-ray, a disc which was released in 2006.
It is one of the ways the industry is sabotaging physical releases and lying to get people to switch to digital, these streaming companies are allowed to call their streams HD and UHD even though they aren't when compared to discs that call them self HD and UHD.

I occasionally stream, but I do so to determine if a title is worth purchasing on disc or I do so when I know I only want to see something once, such as a documentary on a topic of moderate interest or a film about which I am only slightly curious. Streaming is a sampler platter and a research tool for me. I would miss it if it were unavailable to me; it is a far better deal than cable TV in my opinion.

I would not go so far as to say streaming customers do not care about quality at all, but I would argue that they likely do not care as much. The convenience factor bridges the gap for them perhaps? People have different priorities and criteria.

Some are unaware of the differences between a 4K stream and a 4K disc simply because they have not seen a 4K disc therefore they have no reference frame with which to compare- it is hard to appreciate something you have not experienced. Others do not see the difference as significant enough and that is their decision to make, whether it is an informed choice or not.

Their choice does not prevent me from enjoying mine, so I do not concern myself overmuch with how other people watch movies. I certainly state my preferences to anyone who will listen, but I do not lose sleep over their decisions. I firmly believe that there are more than enough of us who appreciate the many benefits that physical media provides to not only sustain it, but to ensure that it thrives. There's that indefatigable optimism again.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Lots of things to consider and much research to be done. Suggestions are always welcome, but best sent in a PM as I do not want to derail the thread.

If not a member of the forums that I linked above, then I would join. Kris Deering and zombie10k are projector gurus. Don't forget about the used market, zombie10k changes projectors every time there is a major change in the wind direction.

[dublinbluray108]

I just heard that Google Play have unveiled free 4K upgrades today for people in the U.S. and Canada so far. I suppose Google are slow in allowing this offer go into other countries. How do iTunes do this by comparison; do they offer free 4K upgrades in every country yet?

Who you do think will offer this feature next in the states?

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No it couldn’t. I seek out quality, I find. You do realise gaming is identical. Of course you do, you just want to post your usual (imo) wise ass posts.

Yes, it is identical to the argument you make against digital streaming for 7+ years. You are replacing quality and ownership for convenience because you are too lazy to switch the disc when you are into a game? Own it or go home.

[The_Donster]

It is very interesting when it comes to UHD or streaming experiences between the members who stream here. I’ve not watched too much streaming outside of Daredevil S2 on Netflix, The Good Place on the NBC and Match Game 73 on the YouTube apps, but VUDU, Amazon and Netflix was solid for me. Yes, depending on the app and the source there is some buffering that Wendell has mentioned, but it is usually unnoticeable outside of the NBC app more than the rest.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

The same could be said for gaming. You can’t pick and choose. You are either pro physical across the board or you aren’t. Otherwise you are holding others to standards you arent following yourself.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No it couldn’t. I seek out quality, I find. You do realise gaming is identical. Of course you do, you just want to post your usual (imo) wise ass posts.

Originally Posted by The_Donster

It is very interesting when it comes to UHD or streaming experiences between the members who stream here. I’ve not watched too much streaming outside of Daredevil S2 on Netflix, The Good Place on the NBC and Match Game 73 on the YouTube apps, but VUDU, Amazon and Netflix was solid for me. Yes, depending on the app and the source there is some buffering that Wendell has mentioned, but it is usually unnoticeable outside of the NBC app more than the rest.

I've always said it's all Digital, that 1:1 is coming for Streaming Video. I have done it with DVD and Blu-ray, Kaleidescape has done it with 4K so it's not impossible. If you have the Bandwidth and are set up properly. I don't experience the Buffering or Degradation with Bitrates in the 16Mbps range. So Streaming is only going to get better, and it will catch up to Disc very soon!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Yes, it is identical to the argument you make against digital streaming for 7+ years. You are replacing quality and ownership for convenience because you are too lazy to switch the disc when you are into a game? Own it or go home.

Ok, let’s go over this one final time. Quality doesn’t come into it. It’s IDENTICAL in A/V quality. Secondly, you can’t buy 60% of the store’s VR games on disc. FACT.

Ownership is not something I can do anything about with VR games. Did you miss the part where I said I still buy flat games on disc?

Finally, you obviously don’t understand how VR works.

Your ‘across the board’ argument is silly. I buy groceries digitally, I advertised my previous home digitally, I write up reports digitally, I order Pizza digitally, I buy some Christmas presents digitally etc..

Some of those will be forced in years to come.

Your argument is flawed, face it.