Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

Bill hunt condemning physical media to the abyss

You would think it didn’t make 4 billion

But studios are only interested in growth not decline , who cares about that 4
Billion or whatever let’s just scrap it

If they are interested only in growth, Digital HD is going to have a short life.

Disc will be fine.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The other thing there was some talk about UHD Players and some Manufactures jumping ship,

No manufacturers of 4K UHD players have announced dropping 4K players. This rumor is spread largely by that same "Einstein" that says no one is making blu-ray players anymore. There is no truth to either claim and that is why no one provides any links to support it. It's just scuttlebutt from butt heads.

And for the millionth time, last year Oppo did not exit the market due to a lack of demand for 4K players. Their parent company wanted to focus on their core business, smartphones, and Oppo stated this as the reason reason publicly. Oppo also dropped headphones and head phone amplifiers; they dropped their entire audio/video product line. Perhaps this means that there is no longer any demand for headphones, too, by the "reasoning" used by some around here?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

Bill hunt condemning physical media to the abyss

You would think it didn’t make 4 billion

But studios are only interested in growth not decline , who cares about that 4
Billion or whatever let’s just scrap it

People like that confuse their desire for something to happen with what is actually happening. People like that will tell you that any decline in any product sales HAS to mean that a total collapse of that product is imminent. Cigarette sales have been declining in the U.S., too. I suppose he believes then that cigarettes are doomed here? It is the same warped logic at work.

People like him have promised us the death of physical media for over 4 years in a row now and instead of repeating his prophecy anew he should be celebrating another anniversary of being dead wrong instead with a nice serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Someone should hand him a new compact disc every time he spouts this nonsense- if he and his ilk were even worth the bother or the cd.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No manufacturers of 4K UHD players have announced dropping 4K players. This rumor is spread largely by that same "Einstein" that says no one is making blu-ray players anymore. There is no truth to either claim and that is why no one provides any links to support it. It's just scuttlebutt from butt heads.

And for the millionth time, last year Oppo did not exit the market due to a lack of demand for 4K players. Their parent company wanted to focus on their core business, smartphones, and Oppo stated this as the reason reason publicly. Oppo also dropped headphones and head phone amplifiers; they dropped their entire audio/video product line. Perhaps this means that there is no longer any demand for headphones, too, by the "reasoning" used by some around here?

Yes keep thinking that about Oppo, they saw the decline in Discs a long time ago. The only Manufactures of UHD Players at CES are Panasonic and Sony, and if they are smart they will have Gigabit Jacks and Streaming Apps.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

Both formats are viable and profitable, I myself would personally shut down streaming altogether If I could but that's just me...There are people out there who will always want physical media and to have something to show for their hard earned buck while others will want to not be bothered with wasting their personal space with a ton of clutter and just enjoy a film when they feel like it from the cloud. It's like arguing over Steak vs. Bologna, some people would rather eat a Bologna sandwich. When the internet crashes, us Hard copiests shall still have our collections and the quality of the video and audio will be far better than streaming for decades to come. Streaming uses less people to bring consumers products which screws the little guy trying to find a job which is why I hate it. But again it has a future. A Friend of mine is a hard core Streamer and hates physical media and has given me crap for several years, he recently broke up with his girl and had to move back in with family in an area with little to no high-speed...he now asks to borrow a lot and has converted to buying physical media again says he might stream to watch stuff on occasion but will definitely be purchasing his favorites...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes keep thinking that about Oppo, they saw the decline in Discs a long time ago. The only Manufactures of UHD Players at CES are Panasonic and Sony, and if they are smart they will have Gigabit Jacks and Streaming Apps.

Hopefully, those streaming apps will be for well known services, not those obscure ones like Netflix and Amazon. Sure hope those apps are easy to use and don't cause confusion.

""The Average Person barely knows about Amazon and Netflix, let along all the other Streaming Providers."

"Streaming Digital has come a long way, but the Average Person is very confused."

^ from alchav21's greatest hits

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=12857

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...5#post15950885

It was in one of Oppo's official press releases and posted on these forums previously. I'd dig it up for you, AGAIN, but you are immune to facts and, frankly, you are not worth the effort.

So only omniscient Oppo saw the "decline" and all of these companies: Samsung, LG, Sony, Phillips/Magnavox, Panasonic, Cambridge, Microsoft, and Pioneer, continue to design, make, market, and sell 4K players across all price ranges worldwide because they are all too stupid to see what Oppo saw last April? I think I can readily determine where the label of stupidity belongs here and it is not with any of these companies.

If it was just about physical media and 4K players, then why would they also drop headphones? Are they on their way out, too? Are you the last headphone user in the world? They dropped wireless speakers, too? Are those no longer wanted also? Oppo's entire A/V division, Oppo Digital, stopped making ALL products.

There does not need to be a new model of a 4K disc player from each manufacturer each and every year. New models are only introduced when there is a design or price point reason to do so. Even Oppo did not release a new player every single year of their 14 year run.

The obvious fact to those with any intelligence at all is that if manufacturers are continuing to release new models of 4k players, then they have determined that there is a market for them. Any sensible company does thorough market research before developing, manufacturing, and marketing a new product. This extensive market research is done even though they could just seek out your observations when shopping at your local Walmart, but for some curious reason they eschew that and do their own research. With 4K discs seeing 70% domestic growth, 83% worldwide, and with doubling their market share it is only obvious to those in possession of a clue that such players would continue to be made.

Finally, where is your evidence that a single company is dropping 4K players? Nowhere, that's where, because as usual you live in a fact-free fantasy world. Put up a source, drop the subject, or enjoy more remedial guidance.

[johndoyle123]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Hopefully, those streaming apps will be for well known services, not those obscure ones like Netflix and Amazon. Sure hope those apps are easy to use and don't cause confusion.

""The Average Person barely knows about Amazon and Netflix, let along all the other Streaming Providers."

"Streaming Digital has come a long way, but the Average Person is very confused."

^ from alchav21's greatest hits

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=12857

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...5#post15950885

It was in one of Oppo's official press releases and posted on these forums previously. I'd dig it up for you, AGAIN, but you are immune to facts and, frankly, you are not worth the effort.

So only omniscient Oppo saw the "decline" and all of these companies: Samsung, LG, Sony, Phillips/Magnavox, Panasonic, Cambridge, Microsoft, and Pioneer, continue to design, make, market, and sell 4K players across all price ranges worldwide because they are all too stupid to see what Oppo saw last April? I think I can readily determine where the label of stupidity belongs here and it is not with any of these companies.

If it was just about physical media and 4K players, then why would they also drop headphones? Are they on their way out, too? Are you the last headphone user in the world? They dropped wireless speakers, too? Are those no longer wanted also? Oppo's entire A/V division, Oppo Digital, stopped making ALL products.

There does not need to be a new model of a 4K disc player from each manufacturer each and every year. New models are only introduced when there is a design or price point reason to do so. Even Oppo did not release a new player every single year of their 14 year run.

The obvious fact to those with any intelligence at all is that if manufacturers are continuing to release new models of 4k players, then they have determined that there is a market for them. Any sensible company does thorough market research before developing, manufacturing, and marketing a new product. This extensive market research is done even though they could just seek out your observations when shopping at your local Walmart, but for some curious reason they eschew that and do their own research. With 4K discs seeing 70% growth and with doubling their market share it is only obvious to those in possession of a clue that such players would continue to be made.

Finally, where is your evidence that a single company is dropping 4K players? Nowhere, that's where, because as usual you live in a fact-free fantasy world. Put up a source, drop the subject, or enjoy more remedial guidance.

OPPO was a strategic business move towards making the company more mobile phones oriented, the moment OPPO went pioneer and Panasonic jumped in with high end players

You are completely right btw , someone clearly has a agenda to push

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

People like that confuse their desire for something to happen with what is actually happening. People like that will tell you that any decline in any product sales HAS to mean that a total collapse of that product is imminent. Cigarette sales have been declining in the U.S., too. I suppose he believes then that cigarettes are doomed here? It is the same warped logic at work.

People like him have promised us the death of physical media for over 4 years in a row now and instead of repeating his prophecy anew he should be celebrating another anniversary of being dead wrong instead with a nice serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Someone should hand him a new compact disc every time he spouts this nonsense- if he and his ilk were even worth the bother or the cd.

But the guy loves disc, it’s his business.

I believe he is a disc collector like us?

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

A Friend of mine is a hard core Streamer and hates physical media and has given me crap for several years, he recently broke up with his girl and had to move back in with family in an area with little to no high-speed...he now asks to borrow a lot and has converted to buying physical media again says he might stream to watch stuff on occasion but will definitely be purchasing his favorites...

I'll bet you couldn't resist a little smile when he asked you for some titles to borrow after all the stick he's given you.

[Wendell R. Breland]

B&H Photo list > 10 UHD BD player models, did not check Amazon, ABT, Best Buy, One Call, Walmart, etc. but I bet each one has several models for sale.

On the content side, the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) noted that Ultra HD Blu-ray, both hardware and software, experiencing approximately 40% and 60% growth, respectively, in 2018, with catalog, local/regional and episodic TV titles increasingly joining new release theatricals on the format.
Standalone Ultra HD Blu-ray player sales for 2018 are expected to surpass 2017 by 44%, and growth of another 30% is anticipated for 2019, according to Futuresource data cited by the BDA. Meanwhile, 15% of all Blu-ray players shipped worldwide in 2018 are expected to be Ultra HD Blu-ray, with 25% projected in 2019 (excluding Xbox One sales), according to data cited by the BDA. The worldwide UHD Blu-ray player installed base is expected to reach 4.5 million by the end of 2018. As of December 2018, there were 29 4K UHD BD player models and 11 4K UHD recorder/player models for a total of 40, according to the BDA.

Global 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray sales continue to grow steadily, with an 83% increase in 2018 vs. 2017, and a further growth of 45% forecast for 2019, according to the BDA. Ultra HD Blu-rays are expected to account for 11% of Blu-rays sold worldwide in 2018, rising to 22% by 2020 and 40% by 2022, according to the BDA.

About 430 4K UHD Blu-ray titles were available in the United States by the end of 2018, the BDA reported, with such notable recent catalog releases as 2001: A Space Odyssey, The Matrix and Close Encounters of the Third Kind and such episodic TV releases as “Game of Thrones,” “Planet Earth 2” and “Dr. Who: Twice Upon a Time.”

BDA president Victor Matsuda was especially impressed with Lionsgate’s decision to release Twilight, which skews to a younger audience, on 4K UHD Blu-ray.

“Recognizing the business possibilities in reissuing that type of title was really encouraging,” he said.

With streaming 4K UHD still dependent on the pipeline to the home (Netflix recommends 25Mbps for 4K), the fact that most users’ service is less robust makes the physical disc more compelling, he said. Only 21% in the U.S. manage to meet the Netflix standard, while such European countries as Germany, France and the United Kingdom manage even less of a percentage.

It appears some members here have a very narrow field of view of technology and should stop posting nonsense because it makes them look very ignorant to folks that have a wider field of view.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

B&H Photo list > 10 UHD BD player models, did not check Amazon, ABT, Best Buy, One Call, Walmart, etc. but I bet each one has several models for sale.


It appears some members here have a very narrow field of view of technology and should stop posting nonsense because it makes them look very ignorant to folks that have a wider field of view.

I think this brewed from an article on ‘The Digital Bits’ Wendell. As I understand it was stating it was the beginning of the end for disc mainly because of the lack of new UHD and Blu-ray players.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

B&H Photo list > 10 UHD BD player models, did not check Amazon, ABT, Best Buy, One Call, Walmart, etc. but I bet each one has several models for sale.


It appears some members here have a very narrow field of view of technology and should stop posting nonsense because it makes them look very ignorant to folks that have a wider field of view.

Thanks for posting detailed factual information. Why certain people insist on making up unsubstantiated fearmongering claptrap nonsense when there is actual verifiable sales data readily available to refute them is mystifying. The only things they are accomplishing are to reveal their bias and to clearly mark themselves as, frankly, idiots. I could've candy coated that, but seeing as they post this drivel on a recurring basis, they deserve to be plainly called what they prove themselves to be with nearly every post that they write.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think this brewed from an article on ‘The Digital Bits’ Wendell. Bill Hunt as I understand it was stating it was the beginning of the end for disc mainly because of the lack of new UHD and Blu-ray players.

As 4K UHD has a 6.2% market share, doubled from 2017, 29 stand alone players plus 11 drives seems more than sufficient to meet the current demand.

From bruceames:

"UHD BD market share growth vs. Blu-ray is actually better than Blu-ray vs. DVD, and is forecast to have a 40% share of Blu-ray/UHD in four years. Blu-ray only had a 27% share 6 years after launch."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=25

4K discs and their players are doing just fine.

The person you reference seems conflicted; alternatingly loving and bashing the format. Perhaps he should do less faulty "analysis" and more therapy instead? From doing a little reading elsewhere, it seems he may be bitter and depressed because his own forum website is failing even after openly begging for donations to keep it afloat. It sounds a lot like old fashioned sour grapes.

One person posted this comment for consideration:

"If anyone is interested, Bill posts these "sky is falling" op-ed pieces a couple of times a year, right before he asks for donations to save his website. Within a week or two, he will ask the readers to give what they can. It isn't a coincidence. "

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=49

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think this brewed from an article on ‘The Digital Bits’ Wendell. As I understand it was stating it was the beginning of the end for disc mainly because of the lack of new UHD and Blu-ray players.

As Wendell's post clearly points out, and any precursory internet search will verify, there are 40 devices capable of 4K disc playback alone.

As indicated earlier, a search on Best Buy alone reveals 85 matches when searching for a blu-ray player.

Best Buy even carries a handful of stand alone, not portable, DVD players from brands like Sony and LG.

There is NO shortage of hardware to play ANY 12 cm disc format. Hell, most players still support 3D even.

You would think such people would put more effort into their fictional fear mongering to include at least a shred of credibility. It takes little effort to refute such stupidity.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

As 4K UHD has a 6.2% market share, doubled from 2017, 29 stand alone players plus 11 drives seems more than sufficient to meet the current demand.

From bruceames:

"UHD BD market share growth vs. Blu-ray is actually better than Blu-ray vs. DVD, and is forecast to have a 40% share of Blu-ray/UHD in four years. Blu-ray only had a 27% share 6 years after launch."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=25

4K discs and their players are doing just fine.

The person you reference seems conflicted; alternatingly loving and bashing the format. Perhaps he should do less faulty "analysis" and more therapy instead? From doing a little reading elsewhere, it seems he may be bitter and depressed because his own forum website is failing even after openly begging for donations to keep it afloat. It sounds a lot like old fashioned sour grapes.

One person posted this comment for consideration:

"If anyone is interested, Bill posts these "sky is falling" op-ed pieces a couple of times a year, right before he asks for donations to save his website. Within a week or two, he will ask the readers to give what they can. It isn't a coincidence. "

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=49

Good to know, thanks.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Good to know, thanks.

It sounds like he creates a hyperbolic clickbait article and once a bunch of people come to see what all the fuss is about, he then hits them up for money to keep his floundering website going. A classy operation if true.

The much venerated blu-ray king himself, Geoff D, had this to say about him:

"Bully for you. So why was he actively talking down 4K for ages...until it actually came to market and he saw the light?"

See Geoff's full post here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=56

The person we are discussing seems a bit off and lacking in credibility as a result.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think this brewed from an article on ‘The Digital Bits’ Wendell. As I understand it was stating it was the beginning of the end for disc mainly because of the lack of new UHD and Blu-ray players.

Been reading Bill's site since he started (1997?). I did not get the same vibes from that article as some others got. IMO, he is PO'ed at the lack of studio support for physical media when compared to yesteryear. Support being: big announcements, press releases, big setups at PoP in B&M's, restoration of catalog titles, etc.

[Steedeel]

Either way, my comments about streaming exclusives and the fact there is no point in investing in Digital HD seems to be a shared view with other members now. The only difference being, they are not getting mocked with insults and gifs.

I repeat again, any HT fan who has invested in digital should be ashamed of themselves.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Either way, my comments about streaming exclusives and the fact there is no point in investing in Digital HD seems to be a shared view with other members now. The only difference being, they are not getting mocked with insults and gifs.

I repeat again, any HT fan who has invested in digital should be ashamed of themselves.

I do not recall anyone mocking you for discussing streaming growth or promotions aimed at driving it higher.

You were mocked for all of your comments about only viewing content on watches or phones. You were ridiculed for saying that big screen TVs were endangered. You were laughed at for saying that long form content was imperiled by the non-existent shortening of attention spans, to name a few.

When you mix the rational with the irrational, it is the irrational that gets remembered.

As Geoff D said regarding your posts:

"With all due respect, it's when you mix these sentiments in with "we're all gonna be viewing movies on watches!!!" that people start to go down the looney-tune route with what you say. "

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=82

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not recall anyone mocking you for discussing streaming growth or promotions aimed at driving it higher.

You were mocked for all of your comments about only viewing content on watches or phones. You were ridiculed for saying that big screen TVs were endangered. You were laughed at for saying that long form content was imperiled by the non-existent shortening of attention spans, to name a few.

When you mix the rational with the irrational, it is the irrational that gets remembered.

As Geoff D said regarding your posts:

"With all due respect, it's when you mix these sentiments in with "we're all gonna be viewing movies on watches!!!" that people start to go down the looney-tune route with what you say. "

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=82

Yeah, people conveniently forget the other stuff. No surprises there. There is a stack of evidence in this very thread. I must go over it in the next week.

People are starting to wake up and smell the coffee but it’s too late.