Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by kraven

It has nothing to do with what was posted or my response. It's just more brown nose cheerleading.

It very much has to do with your response. People in this thread loudly complained just recently that they wanted the flat fee shipping model Hamilton Book does, now they are getting it - and result is complaints to go back to the old way.

No one is acting like they are making up the rates going up. You are acting like they had nothing factored into the price already for shipping. They did. The price of the blus aren't going to drop that factored in money for shipping, so it costs $5 more now to order from DF.

DF already said on Facebook the base price of items was going to drop so where is your evidence it won't? Prices may not be updated yet but as you know with DF price changes don't happen immediately (they like to take down the store and re price everything).

Also price likely isn't going to drop $5 per item. It may be something like $2 with the assumption under the old "free shipping" model the $4 (now $5 w/2019 increase) was built into the base price assuming an average order of 2 items. So if someone orders 1 item DF lost a little more profit under free shipping model, while if they ordered 3 items they gained a little more profit under free shipping model. Now, like Hamilton, idea is to see the real base price - total w/ shipping will likely be a bit more expensive for those who order 1 at a time, the same for orders of 2, and a savings for orders of 3+ - same way Hamilton Book isn't always the best deal ordering only 1 item at a time.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

A 4 oz. package going from coast to coast via 1st Class now costs $4.06.

A 5 oz. package going coast to coast -- which a single Blu-Ray can easily weigh if it contains a booklet or is packaged even a tad more heavily -- is now $4.81.

I can see all of those USPS rates in my Ebay account when I go to ship a 1st Class package from MA to CA (Ebay gives users a discount, but those are the actual USPS rates before those discounts are applied).

So saying a Blu-Ray costs $5 to ship 1st Class actually isn't inflated at all -- especially not when you factor in the cost of the mailer and or any other shipping materials. The Media Mail increases are tiny, though, and really is the method that ought to be used to hold costs down (still costs $2.75).

This is just flat-out inaccurate, because nobody pays those prices (or at least they shouldn't). The discount on eBay is the same discount you get for buying postage through Paypal or even through the USPS's own website. I would again refer you to the chart I posted earlier, which has the actual prices, and again, the biggest increase is 43 cents. The point is that this .43 increase is being used to rationalize a new $5 shipping charge, which is ridiculous.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

This is just flat-out inaccurate, because nobody pays those prices (or at least they shouldn't). The discount on eBay is the same discount you get for buying postage through Paypal or even through the USPS's own website. I would again refer you to the chart I posted earlier, which has the actual prices, and again, the biggest increase is 43 cents. The point is that this .43 increase is being used to rationalize a new $5 shipping charge, which is ridiculous.

This is a straw man argument.

DF said on Facebook that they would be dropping the base price of items and adding a flat fee $5 shipping rate.

This isn't just because 2019 rates (although that plays a significant part), its a whole change of shipping model (obviously) that basically emulates Hamilton Book or Diabolik - which people loudly complained just weeks ago was the "best" method of charging for shipping.

In fact, if you recall one of our members here compared DF's prices directly to Hamilton Book's prices (which you commented on, btw, preferring the lower Hamilton Book base prices) without factoring in Hamilton Book's $4 flat fee shipping per order - and the group decided that Hamilton Book's $4 per order model was more reasonable since many people order more than 1 title at a time and would be overpaying on DF for base price on big orders. Well, now you've got Hamilton Book's model at Dark Force (plus an extra buck for much faster delivery), so those who complained they wanted flat fee now have exactly what they asked for.

Likely base prices will drop ~$2 per titles once things are re-priced and you'll need to order a couple of items at once to get the same overall price via the old "free shipping" model - just the same as how ordering one item from Hamilton Book (or Diabolik) at a time often does not yield the the best price. But, order a couple items it will probably cost the same, or order 3+ and you will likely save some money under the new model.

People wanted the flat fee shipping, people got the flat fee shipping. Predictably, people continue the nonstop DF complaining anyway.

[CrowKiller]

Originally Posted by TwiStedByDeSign86

CrowKiller, check your PMs. Mardi Gras Massacre.

Guess I can finally take that off the need list. Went ahead and ordered one. Thanks again.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

No but the increases are substantial enough now using 1st Class mail to the point where many businesses online are going to have to either a) raise their shipping rates or b) raise the product price to compensate for the difference. DF is hardly alone here.

Either way the rates are what they are and DF isn't wrong that it basically costs $5 to use 1st Class to mail a single Blu-Ray. If it's a BD that's 2 discs or has a booklet (or just uses a heavier mailer) it's at least 5 oz. and that's $4.81 from coast to coast. Doesn't even include the cost of that mailer.

People on here are acting like they're making it up and inflating their rates -- they're not at all. Go to USPS and try to ship a 4 or 5 oz. 1st Class package from east to west coast, which is where the biggest increases are, and see what you get.

This doesn't apply to MEDIA, though, which is what Hamilton uses and is the most economical form of shipping and DF may want to implement that...it just takes longer (and leads to complaints from the impatient lol).

I've had boxes weighing several pounds ship for under $5 via media mail from across the United states and arrive in under 5 days. Media Mail shipping in theory could take longer, but more often than not it's the folks doing the mailing that simply aren't as timely with their drop offs to the post office that are the cause for the delay. To be perfectly honest I have no idea why companies haven't made media mail the de facto standard to ship movies with more expensive options also available at checkout. Media Mail rates are cheap enough that those costs could/should be factored into pricing for companies like shout factory which would allow for free shipping at a much, much lower threshold than there current $50 standard or if nothing else, shipping rates better than the ridiculous $7 they charge currently. Media Mail also includes tracking (though it's rarely as accurate as other rates) but additional tracking options could likely be included as well if needed.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

I've had boxes weighing several pounds ship for under $5 via media mail from across the United states and arrive in under 5 days. Media Mail shipping in theory could take longer, but more often than not it's the folks doing the mailing that simply aren't as timely with their drop offs to the post office that are the cause for the delay

Per USPS estimation, media mail I believe is 2-9 days and First Class is 2-5 days if I recall. In my own experience generally first class takes 2-4 days and media mail 4-7 days. The biggest downside to media mail I've found is packages seem to get more beat up, so they need beefier packaging if you plan to ship something that could get damaged easily (like a blu w/ slipcover for instance). During holidays when USPS is overwhelmed I've also seen media mail frequently sit at the hubs for days as its the lowest priority while first class generally keeps moving. When I ship an item 100% of the time I go with First Class if the price difference is only a dollar or two more than media mail.

One other side note - USPS reserves right to open and inspect all media mail packages. I once traded in like $400 of DVDs a long time ago to a reputable DVD online store, and sent via media mail. Mysteriously, around half the DVDs were stolen on the way... probably due to an "inspection" as it went directly to the DVD store's warehouse.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Per USPS estimation, media mail I believe is 2-9 days and First Class is 2-5 days if I recall. In my own experience generally first class takes 2-4 days and media mail 4-7 days. The biggest downside to media mail I've found is packages seem to get more beat up, so they need beefier packaging if you plan to ship something that could get damaged easily (like a blu w/ slipcover for instance). During holidays when USPS is overwhelmed I've also seen media mail frequently sit at the hubs for days as its the lowest priority while first class generally keeps moving.

All fair points which is why I think offering other options at increased prices would be smart as well. But generally speaking throughout the year with a bit of foresight (ie bubble wrap) the extra day or two delay isn't likely going to bother too many folks when they can save several dollars per order. You are correct about orders possibly getting a bit more beaten up... Media mail orders are also subject to inspection so at random the post office may open an order to see what it inside before resealing it, so that could be problematic in rare cases, but again for the vast majority of the year and orders media mail would likely me perfectly fine.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by delicreep

Vinegar Syndrome uses media mail, at 4 bucks. I've never had any issues ordering from them except the expected longer shipping times, but even that's hardly an issue. My January package took 5 business days to go from Connecticut to California. I have no problem with that.

I wonder why VS packages arrive so fast, they seem to get to me quicker than anything else (except Ronin). I am still waiting on packages from Hamilton Book and Grindhouse Video that shipped days before my last VS order that I arrived Monday. Maybe they actually ship them everyday and the other companies just create the shipping label and have specific days they hit the post office?

[JasonMichael]

Originally Posted by Ruined

This is a straw man argument.

DF said on Facebook that they would be dropping the base price of items and adding a flat fee $5 shipping rate.

This isn't just because 2019 rates (although that plays a significant part), its a whole change of shipping model (obviously) that basically emulates Hamilton Book or Diabolik - which people loudly complained just weeks ago was the "best" method of charging for shipping.

In fact, if you recall one of our members here compared DF's prices directly to Hamilton Book's prices (which you commented on, btw, preferring the lower Hamilton Book base prices) without factoring in Hamilton Book's $4 flat fee shipping per order - and the group decided that Hamilton Book's $4 per order model was more reasonable since many people order more than 1 title at a time and would be overpaying on DF for base price on big orders. Well, now you've got Hamilton Book's model at Dark Force (plus an extra buck for much faster delivery), so those who complained they wanted flat fee now have exactly what they asked for.

Likely base prices will drop ~$2 per titles once things are re-priced and you'll need to order a couple of items at once to get the same overall price via the old "free shipping" model - just the same as how ordering one item from Hamilton Book (or Diabolik) at a time often does not yield the the best price. But, order a couple items it will probably cost the same, or order 3+ and you will likely save some money under the new model.

People wanted the flat fee shipping, people got the flat fee shipping. Predictably, people continue the nonstop DF complaining anyway.

The point is moot until DF lowers their prices. The flat fee shipping should've been launched at the same time as prices were dropped, but amazingly the Demon could introduce the shipping charge immediately while promising lower prices in the future. I'm sure even your constantly rolling eyes can see why cynics might not believe the prices are coming down.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

This is just flat-out inaccurate, because nobody pays those prices (or at least they shouldn't). The discount on eBay is the same discount you get for buying postage through Paypal or even through the USPS's own website. I would again refer you to the chart I posted earlier, which has the actual prices, and again, the biggest increase is 43 cents. The point is that this .43 increase is being used to rationalize a new $5 shipping charge, which is ridiculous.

I sold a bunch of blurays recently (in December) and shipped each one from Los Angeles to various parts of the USA via First Class.

I have some of my receipts right here...the postage was $3.75 and the single blu-ray sized padded envelopes were $1.79 each.

So, $5.54 was my total (maybe it's less if someone has a USPS account and buys envelopes in bulk?).

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by indravayu

I sold a bunch of blurays recently (in December) and shipped each one from Los Angeles to various parts of the USA via First Class.

I have some of my receipts right here...the postage was $3.75 and the single blu-ray sized padded envelopes were $1.79 each.

So, $5.54 was my total (maybe it's less if someone has a USPS account and buys envelopes in bulk?).

Generally speaking people/companies aren't paying for an envelope one at a time. Buying in bulk is an overhead cost that would only add pennies on the price of each product offered/sold when spread across all titles offered.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

Generally speaking people/companies aren't paying for an envelope one at a time. Buying in bulk is an overhead cost that would only add pennies on the price of each product offered/sold when spread across all titles offered.

Also keep in mind though Dark Force isnt Amazon or even Screen Archives in terms of volume so I imagine they are still paying a comparatively high amount for packaging supplies to bigger sites due to low volume.

[TripleHBK]

A quick 2 minute search of amazon shows that they offer 6x10 white waterproof bubble mailers in 25 packs for $8.39. Assuming the Demon has prime shipping and only orders this small 25 pack one at a time that still is around $10 for 25 envelopes which breaks down to $.40 per envelope and not $1.79. I'm sure their are far better deals for buying 50 - 100 at a time available that would be well within the limits of what makes good business sense.

I'm not arguing for or against the current pricing/shipping methods he is utilizing, but one of the biggest farces I see (not just here but everywhere) is that shipping HAS to be cost prohibitive. It has certainly gone up in price for sure, but like most things the impact the increases have are often wildly over stated. Taking one quick look at Shout Factory's pricing scheme and it become immediately apparent that they are making quite a bit of additional revenue by charging $6.99 for a single movie.

[HorrorBlu]

For the bargain $9.95 titles, I can see how it would be an issue.

However, when you're charging $24.95 for a blu-ray and every cent of that is going directly to you (no Amazon, eBay commission, etc taking a cut), then yeah, they're probably just being greedy.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by HorrorBlu

For the bargain $9.95 titles, I can see how it would be an issue.

However, when you're charging $24.95 for a blu-ray and every cent of that is going directly to you (no Amazon, eBay commission, etc taking a cut), then yeah, they're probably just being greedy.

Their storefront (ie I'm sure bigcartel did) and payment processor might take a cut or cost money I'm sure.

[splintersan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Their storefront (ie I'm sure bigcartel did) and payment processor might take a cut or cost money I'm sure.

Which I'm sure they have never even thought about including in the price in the past.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Their storefront (ie I'm sure bigcartel did) and payment processor might take a cut or cost money I'm sure.

Then, of course, there's your cut Nobody shills for free

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ruined

This is a straw man argument.

Based on the rest of your post, you have no idea what this means.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

Then, of course, there's your cut Nobody shills for free

Doesnt get more original than this!

Looking forward to your continued nonstop complaining.

[noirjunkie]

Everyone, the best thing we can all do at this point is just put Ruined on our ignore lists (I'll lead the way). There's no point in engaging with him anymore.