Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You have to stay pro disc imo. If everyone had your attitude, their wouldn’t be luxury cars, top restaurants, etc.. The more people quit disc, the less chance we have of dedicated labels releasing rare stuff, desirable titles, cult titles etc..
That would be one of the biggest shames. I’m sorry, but I’m not buying that you are this great, passionate film fan. True film lovers don’t just abandon their passion.

That's not my attitude at all. I was totally against all of the tech components becoming a commodity. Again, its not about I want to happen as the masses end up driving that. I was against the move to Chinese manufacturing.

I started boycotting Walmart back in 1992. I was telling everyone not to shop there because they are just running quality products and labor to the bottom. Unfortunately, Walmart won and we're stuck with them.

I started buying Apple products in 2005 because I just wanted things to work without a bunch of hassle. I pay a premium for that.

I think you are missing my point here in one regard: I'm not saying I'm for a lower quality experience. I'm saying that higher quality experience will come with digital ownership in the future. It may not be on par yet but it is close and will close (and eliminate) that gap in the future.

Also, I think digital allows content producers to release products that might not have as much support on physical media. Because storage is so cheap and bandwidth continues to increase in size and decrease in price they will be able to offer things that were cost prohibitive to release on disc. Remember all these discs have to be stored in warehouses, shipped, and put on shelves.

As far as passion, you are indeed correct. I used to be pretty passionate about movies and watched thousands of them in my lifetime but there got to be a point where movies started sucking pretty hard (in my personal opinion) and I tuned out for a long time and selectively watch movies and started watching more TV and documentaries. Today, I'm even watching a LOT of YouTube.

However, a little of my passion has been coming back. My whole life I was not a big fan of the Action/Adventure genre but recently some bit flipped in my head and I love it now. I just watched all the Mission Impossible movies, Jack Reachers, John Wicks, Bournes, and some others. I followed that up by watching all 20 Marvel movies. (I just finished Avengers Infinity War last night) So maybe I was just watching the wrong movies for this time in my life because when I look at Oscar winners like Birdman (and others) I feel like they are total crap.

Maybe I'm 100% wrong but I've seen this happen too many times to know that the average Joe consumer will choose price over quality and that ruins it for everyone else. And sometimes they choose for convenience. A landline phone is still more reliable and will always have better quality than a mobile phone but who still has a landline and which is more popular. Same thing with digital, it will become more popular as time goes on.

Just my opinions.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

You may want to see the results here before making such statements. Considering what a small % has a 1 Gig fiber why think about a 10 Gig fiber?

Now for some real world data click here. That's right, for January the leader was 4.46 Mbps or about the same as a audio track on a Blu-ray disc.

That is awesome. I started with a 300bps manual connect modem that was a great improvement over the 110bps acoustic coupler modems before it.

Bandwidth will always to grow:

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/law-of-bandwidth/

Go watch this 1993 commercial from AT&T:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfI...ature=youtu.be

Some of those claims seemed ludicrous at a time when we mainly had 9600bps modems. Now it seems ridiculous to think it is not possible.

or how about this one from Quest in 1999 (now Centurylink):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAxt...ature=youtu.be

Bandwidth to your house is going to keep increasing.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

That's not my attitude at all. I was totally against all of the tech components becoming a commodity. Again, its not about I want to happen as the masses end up driving that. I was against the move to Chinese manufacturing.

I started boycotting Walmart back in 1992. I was telling everyone not to shop there because they are just running quality products and labor to the bottom. Unfortunately, Walmart won and we're stuck with them.

I started buying Apple products in 2005 because I just wanted things to work without a bunch of hassle. I pay a premium for that.

I think you are missing my point here in one regard: I'm not saying I'm for a lower quality experience. I'm saying that higher quality experience will come with digital ownership in the future. It may not be on par yet but it is close and will close (and eliminate) that gap in the future.

Also, I think digital allows content producers to release products that might not have as much support on physical media. Because storage is so cheap and bandwidth continues to increase in size and decrease in price they will be able to offer things that were cost prohibitive to release on disc. Remember all these discs have to be stored in warehouses, shipped, and put on shelves.

As far as passion, you are indeed correct. I used to be pretty passionate about movies and watched thousands of them in my lifetime but there got to be a point where movies started sucking pretty hard (in my personal opinion) and I tuned out for a long time and selectively watch movies and started watching more TV and documentaries. Today, I'm even watching a LOT of YouTube.

However, a little of my passion has been coming back. My whole life I was not a big fan of the Action/Adventure genre but recently some bit flipped in my head and I love it now. I just watched all the Mission Impossible movies, Jack Reachers, John Wicks, Bournes, and some others. I followed that up by watching all 20 Marvel movies. (I just finished Avengers Infinity War last night) So maybe I was just watching the wrong movies for this time in my life because when I look at Oscar winners like Birdman (and others) I feel like they are total crap.

Maybe I'm 100% wrong but I've seen this happen too many times to know that the average Joe consumer will choose price over quality and that ruins it for everyone else. And sometimes they choose for convenience. A landline phone is still more reliable and will always have better quality than a mobile phone but who still has a landline and which is more popular. Same thing with digital, it will become more popular as time goes on.

Just my opinions.

I don’t doubt subscriptions will be the dominating format going forward. Digital HD is not doing that great though. Not for a newish format. All the studios are cited about subscription and rightly so. Have you noticed how quiet the industry is about Digital HD? It’s like they already know it’s flogging a dead horse.

Digital is fine for TVs hanging above the fireplace with built in speakers. 4K and even 720p is going to look absolutely fine even on screens of 50 inches and above. However, fine is never good enough for me. I like my HT.

My job involves visiting many people in their homes and I see the same depressing setup in very one. 4K tv with not a hint of a 4K disc player. It’s like owning a luxury car and never driving it. It’s all Netflix and satellite/cable tv.
In the U.K. tv households are a 99% of the population. I bet only single figures have a 4K UHD player and I would guess less than 15% have Blu-ray players.
I am not about to become on of those stats.

At least there is hope for you if you are enjoying films again, even if is one genre. Mission Impossible Fallout was incredible and it’s just wont be the same on 4K Apple TV.

Dont give up the fight. If we all did that, good things wouldn’t exist.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

A few years ago I had the same outlook as you. Digital can be very appealing at first. I sold nearly all of my blu rays and started a digital library. I soon found that quality wasnt even close to blu ray, sorting titles in a digital locker is a huge pain, buffering issues (even at full connection the movie always starts in SD for a few seconds) and the main fact that you do not even own the movie. Maybe you do not value film like most of us on this thread. But if you want the best quality and want your movies forever you should listen to what these guys are telling you.

I get what you are saying. I don't have bandwidth issues but I fully understand if my internet goes down I cannot watch any of the movies on iTunes.

I also understand that I have DVDs sitting around that I watched once or twice and haven't watched in 15+ years.

A guy at a video store explained home video libraries to me in a unique way many years ago:

When you start out and have like 10 movies you watch them all multiple times in a year. However, as your library grows you watch those original 10 movies less and less until the point that you never really watch them at all. As your library gets bigger more and more titles remain unwatched. I mean when is the last time I threw that E.T. movie in to watch? You can do the same with digital but at least it isn't consuming real estate.

Ultimately I want quality and convenience and don't see them as mutually exclusive.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You have to stay pro disc imo. If everyone had your attitude, their wouldn’t be luxury cars, top restaurants, etc..

Here's the rub with that argument though: most people do have those attitudes about cars and restaurants. Most people look at luxury cars as ridiculously extravagant. More people will eat at McDonalds today than will eat at five store restaurants all year.

And yet there is no shortage of either luxury cars or five star restaurants.

And why? Because markets work.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The more people quit disc, the less chance we have of dedicated labels releasing rare stuff, desirable titles, cult titles etc..

That might suck for me but it in no way obligates other people to subsidize my hobby.

I very well might benefit if more people shared my interests and priorities but that's not up to me. That's up to them.

They get to decide what they're interested in. They get to set their own priorities.

And if that cuts against me from time to time then so be it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Here's the rub with that argument though: most people do have those attitudes about cars and restaurants. Most people look at luxury cars as ridiculously extravagant. More people will eat at McDonalds today than will eat at five store restaurants all year.

And yet there is no shortage of either luxury cars or five star restaurants.

And why? Because markets work.



That might suck for me but it in no way obligates other people to subsidize my hobby.

I very well might benefit if more people shared my interests and priorities but that's not up to me. That's up to them.

They get to decide what they're interested in. They get to set their own priorities.

And if that cuts against me from time to time then so be it.

I’m talking from the point of view of fellow collectors. Not the average Joe who struggles with the volume settings.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

want your movies forever

Wanted to add one more thing


Imagine if you will 15 years from now when your movie viewing platform connects to your content device using a QR47 wireless connection which your Blu-ray player obviously doesn't have ...

You still have a VHS player hooked up? 8-Track tape audio player? Cassette? DAT drive? 1.44 Floppy Drive? etc.


I think you see where I'm going with this - nothing is really forever

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I’m talking from the point of view of fellow collectors. Not the average Joe who struggles with the volume settings.

Fellow collectors are no more obligated to subsidize my hobby than is the average Joe.

Nobody but me is obligated to subsidize my hobbies.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Wanted to add one more thing


Imagine if you will 15 years from now when your movie viewing platform connects to your content device using a QR47 wireless connection which your Blu-ray player obviously doesn't have ...

You still have a VHS player hooked up? 8-Track tape audio player? Cassette? DAT drive? 1.44 Floppy Drive? etc.


I think you see where I'm going with this - nothing is really forever

This is the first time quality has gone backwards since VHS launched. I’m sure people will have access to their blurays even 15 years from now. Unless you are suggesting TVs wont have a HDMI connection? I suppose that is a possibility.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Fellow collectors are no more obligated to subsidize my hobby than is the average Joe.

Nobody but me is obligated to subsidize my hobbies.

Fellow collectors want labels to stay afloat. That’s a given.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This is the first time quality has gone backwards since VHS launched.

Is it? CD > MP3 was a fairly significant drop when it first took hold, no?

And that worked itself out over time too, no?

Storage costs dropped, processors in devices got more powerful, codecs got better and bandwidth dramatically increased all of which led to digital music files that are either lossless or virtually lossless.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Fellow collectors want labels to stay afloat. That’s a given.

And if one of those collectors one day decides that it's not that big a deal anymore that is entirely his or her call. It's not mine.

It's not my place to deride or mock somebody simply because they decide my hobby isn't as important to them as it might have once been.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Is it? CD > MP3 was a fairly significant drop when it first took hold, no?

And that worked itself out over time too, no?

Storage costs dropped, processors in devices got more powerful, codecs got better and bandwidth dramatically increased all of which led to digital music files that are either lossless or virtually lossless.

When was the last time you watched a MP3 file?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

And if one of those collectors one day decides that it's not that big a deal anymore that is entirely his or her call. It's not mine.

It's not my place to deride or mock somebody simply because they decide my hobby isn't as important to them as it might have once been.

I think you are the last person to be talking about mocking someone to be frank.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

When was the last time you watched a MP3 file?

Nice deflection but it's a relevant data point.

All of the things even the goofy digital supporters are predicting happened with music. The scale of the practical considerations might be different but the underlying principles are not.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think you are the last person to be talking about mocking someone to be frank.

I'm pretty comfortable with my shot selection, thanks.

I can't say with any certainty that I've never crossed any lines but I'm fairly comfortable with both the content and tone of my posts.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Nice deflection but it's a relevant data point.

All of the things even the goofy digital supporters are predicting happened with music. The scale of the practical considerations might be different but the underlying principles are not.

Different altogether. Music files are nowhere near the size of video. There is a need to keep bit rates very low.

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This is the first time quality has gone backwards since VHS launched. I’m sure people will have access to their blurays even 15 years from now. Unless you are suggesting TVs wont have a HDMI connection? I suppose that is a possibility.

Will they still be called TVs ???

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Will they still be called TVs ???

Hubs?

[Forestt]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Wanted to add one more thing


Imagine if you will 15 years from now when your movie viewing platform connects to your content device using a QR47 wireless connection which your Blu-ray player obviously doesn't have ...

You still have a VHS player hooked up? 8-Track tape audio player? Cassette? DAT drive? 1.44 Floppy Drive? etc.


I think you see where I'm going with this - nothing is really forever

But vinyl is still around and selling well, at least good enough and made a somewhat comeback the last few years. Even younger generations prefer them over cd's. Why? It's the ultimate physical music format for music collectors.

I think we also get one 'ultimate' physical video format in the end for film collectors. It might be the 4k format be if so we can stil play blu rays on those players. 8k is probably one step too much.