Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Geoff D]

Tell your "friend" it's so I know how much of the incoming HDR signal my TV will be able to interpret 'natively' and whether I need to use the HDR Optimiser or not.

[grodd]

That was Aquaman playing in DV while giving me the HDR10 info.
I'll have to go back and check the other data menu out, because it give 2 different ones. It had some frame dependent info also.

[grodd]

This also reminds me of another question. Some DV discs have the audio sync off on my set up. For example I have to adjust the sound delay for Halloween massively or play the original soundtrack.

Does anyone know why this sometimes happens? It doesn't happen on all Dolby Vision discs either.

[Bond84]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a little fuzzy on what the System Gamma Adjustment does. Is it like the gamma setting on the tv (2.2, 2.4, etc)?

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by terminal33

Hey all, I just set up the 820 last night with my Epson 5040 set to output HDR2020 and Projector tone mapping. I was definitely impressed with the picture and with being able to adjust the HDR Optimizer. However, am I right that some would say I should be setting the output of the 820 to SDR2020, and then adjust the dynamic range slider from there?

Also, I noticed that when there was a bright scene (with an explosion), turning the Optimizer off made it a little brighter. I know brighter doesn't always mean better, but I was wondering why that was so. Thanks!

For a projector, yes, I would recommend using the SDR2020 option since projectors have considerably less light output than regular TVs. Ideally, with SDR2020 you'll get a brighter picture with minimal compromise (i.e. clipping) in darker and brighter areas.

I don't have a projector to test it with, but it is likely the explosion looks brighter since the projector is doing all of the tone mapping, but this also means that you'll probably get clipping in bright objects and crushed blacks since the projector's tone mapping is subpar compared to Panasonic's.

But yes, unless you have a light cannon of a projector, I've read from various users (here and in AVForums) that SDR2020 is usually the best mode for projectors. You'll get wide color gamut, 4K, and probably the best HDR tone mapping available for consumer projectors right now.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Tell your "friend" it's so I know how much of the incoming HDR signal my TV will be able to interpret 'natively' and whether I need to use the HDR Optimiser or not.

Also asking for a “friend”, why would I... I mean “my friend”, not use the HDR Optimizer at all time?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Also asking for a “friend”, why would I... I mean “my friend”, not use the HDR Optimizer at all time?

Because it literally doesn't do anything (apart from add a touch of posterisation) with 1000-nit content when one already has a TV that can hit 1000 nits in its sleep. And not every movie mastered to 4000 nits MDL actually hits anything like 4000 nits MaxCLL so again, it's nice to know when to use the Optimiser and when not to. It's a useful tool but it's received far less use chez Geoff than I thought it would, it's not some catch-all panacea for the ZD9.

[sapiendut]

Ah. I forgot. Sorry. I use projector and didn’t think of that. Thanks!!

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Because it literally doesn't do anything (apart from add a touch of posterisation) with 1000-nit content when one already has a TV that can hit 1000 nits in its sleep. And not every movie mastered to 4000 nits MDL actually hits anything like 4000 nits MaxCLL so again, it's nice to know when to use the Optimiser and when not to. It's a useful tool but it's received far less use chez Geoff than I thought it would, it's not some catch-all panacea for the ZD9.

Yep, yup, yip. This was the genesis of my question the other week about getting hold of a list of UHD metadata (which you kindly responded to at the time). Cause if I have a ~1000 nit TV which does a bang up job with HDR anyway, then switching on the optimiser for the majority of discs is a waste o' time. I needed to know when it was worth experimenting with and thanks to the update, I can now get my answers.

Interesting to hear you mention the touch of posterisation though. I'm intrigued.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Yep, yup, yip. This was the genesis of my question the other week about getting hold of a list of UHD metadata (which you kindly responded to at the time). Cause if I have a ~1000 nit TV which does a bang up job with HDR anyway, then switching on the optimiser for the majority of discs is a waste o' time. I needed to know when it was worth experimenting with and thanks to the update, I can now get my answers.

Interesting to hear you mention the touch of posterisation though. I'm intrigued.

Here's a post I made earlier:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In other news, I noticed some banding on HDR greyscale ramps when the HDR Optimiser is engaged. This is something that's always been in the back of my mind re: the Optimiser, whether it had enough of an overhead with bit depth to be able to truly process these images in a 'lossless' fashion, and unfortunately it definitely has an effect, visible in both test patterns (dem ramps) and real world content.

This isn't related to the actual tone mapping itself of the Optimiser because this happens when the Optimiser circuit is engaged and the image isn't being outwardly modified at all, e.g. playing 1000-nit MDL content on the 1500-nit Super High mode. There's no objectively measurable difference on such content re: mapping or light levels with it on or off, but simply by turning the circuit 'on' the image is being routed thru that processing, and it shows.

It's REALLY hard to capture the ramps in a photo, all they do is come out looking awful either way but you'll just have to take my word for it that the ramps are smooth as buttah without it. I looked at some real world content instead, stuff that I know from recent discussions in the UHD movies threads that can be tipped into bandingsville if the processing is throttling the bit depth somewhere. I checked the final shot of Exodus on UHD disc where they're all walking into the distance with the bright sky overhead, something that Velvet mentioned, and while the gradations look rather good with the Optimiser off there's a faint but definite 'rainbow' effect that occurs with the Optimiser on, even though this title isn't being remapped at all (MaxCLL o nit, MaxMDL 1100-nit)

Another example is the Sony UHD disc of Blade Runner 2049 which had some quite vocal protests from some members who could see bad banding on their TVs, whereas it looked *slightly* questionable on mine but nothing overtly murderous. The MaxMDL is 4000 nits but the MaxCLL is 457 nits so there's no remapping going on here by the player with the Optimiser on but, again, banding in some scenes is quite pronounced with it enabled. This I did manage to get a photo of, make of it what you will (factoring in the extra compression from the image hoster):

Optimiser OFF



Optimiser ON



It might be hard to make out but there's a definite 'rainbow' effect in the ON pic about three-quarters of the way up, as well as visible false contouring in the 'hump' just below it. I've yet to check this with content that has better-defined gradations and I'm fairly certain that it won't be too obvious because a better source = cleaner processing thereof, 'twas ever thus, but with stuff that runs out of bit depth real fast then it's not a pretty sight.

Yes, I'm running the Panny in upsampled 12-bit output BUT I've checked this with the 10-bit priority output as well and the exact same effects are visible. And double yes, people will say "well, don't leave it on then with BR2049 if you don't need to do any remapping!" but that's not the point as I can also see the banding on a 0-10000 nit greyscale ramp. I've used those specific examples of actual content to show that this is a quirk with the Optimiser's processing pathway, regardless of it doing any remapping or not.

Boy, I bet y'all are SO glad I bought one of these.

[Geoff D]

Basically it's not something that's super obvious in all content unless the source is running out of bit depth already, in which case it can make very mild banding rather more overt. But if anyone here has a Sony TV then setting the Smooth Gradation to Low will counteract any added banding from using the Optimiser.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

For the UB9000, we're getting a firmware update to support Control4 IP programming codes.

I also expect we'll have further firmware updates with IP and IR discrete codes to follow and user settings for the idle player power down.

See bolded above... Yes, please, yes, please, yes, please!

Mark

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

but I'm still looking to find out what the Ghostbusters movies are reading for the metadata, not just the two older movies but the newer one as well. Can anyone help a Geoffy out?

Optimizer on (Middle/high luminance).




Optimizer on (Super high luminance).




Optimizer off.





Optimizer on (Middle/high luminance).




Optimizer on (Middle/high luminance).








I'm still having the same issues after the most recent update, I was hoping that would be a thing of the past.

Sometimes when playing UHD discs, HDR is not being recognized/shown properly (washed out picture). I have to stop the movie and start the disc again in order for it to display the picture correctly.

Also my player sometimes freezes during the boot sequence after turning it on. It won't get past the "welcome" message on the front display. Have to unplug the power, sometimes more than once. And sometimes the player won't even turn on, not by the power button on the remote or the one on the player itself. Have to unplug the power cord and then hope it gets past the "welcome" message after that.

[Geoff D]

Thanks DJR. Christ almighty look at those brightness figures, it's as we've been saying in the software threads: Sony do love to blast the shit out of their catalogue HDR grades.

[Aston_Martin_DB5]

Finally bit the bullet and purchased a refurbished unit off ebay. This was practically brand new. Switched it on and downloaded the latest firmware and gonna test it out tonight on Aquaman.

[WutDaFunk]

Originally Posted by Aston_Martin_DB5

Finally bit the bullet and purchased a refurbished unit off ebay. This was practically brand new. Switched it on and downloaded the latest firmware and gonna test it out tonight on Aquaman.

Please update us! I'm specifically interested in knowing how dark scenes with blacks look. I'm hoping black levels aren't affected, even though the rest of the picture might be elevated with DV. I have an OLED, so dark details are the only thing holding me back from buying right now.

[grodd]

Originally Posted by WutDaFunk

Please update us! I'm specifically interested in knowing how dark scenes with blacks look. I'm hoping black levels aren't affected, even though the rest of the picture might be elevated with DV. I have an OLED, so dark details are the only thing holding me back from buying right now.

Dark details are fine. It's really the strongest highlights/upper tone where I believe Panny runs a bit hot.

[terminal33]

Originally Posted by samlop10

For a projector, yes, I would recommend using the SDR2020 option since projectors have considerably less light output than regular TVs. Ideally, with SDR2020 you'll get a brighter picture with minimal compromise (i.e. clipping) in darker and brighter areas.

I don't have a projector to test it with, but it is likely the explosion looks brighter since the projector is doing all of the tone mapping, but this also means that you'll probably get clipping in bright objects and crushed blacks since the projector's tone mapping is subpar compared to Panasonic's.

But yes, unless you have a light cannon of a projector, I've read from various users (here and in AVForums) that SDR2020 is usually the best mode for projectors. You'll get wide color gamut, 4K, and probably the best HDR tone mapping available for consumer projectors right now.

I see, thanks!

[Mandeep]

Purchased the Panasonic UB820 a few days back.

Plz help.

How to turn off Optimizer when playing a Dolby vision movie disc?

Can i select HDR format on a dolby vision encoded disc? if yes, then how?

Thanks

[evoll]

Originally Posted by Mandeep

Purchased the Panasonic UB820 a few days back.

Plz help.

How to turn off Optimizer when playing a Dolby vision movie disc?

Can i select HDR format on a dolby vision encoded disc? if yes, then how?

Thanks

The optimizer does not work on DV discs, only HDR-10 discs so no need to turn it off.
To turn off DV go into the settings menu and turn DV off so that way all UHD discs will only play in HDR-10.