Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I say Digital is Digital, don't separate one from the other. There are various levels of Quality depending on your set up. Just don't put down Digital Streaming until you look at your own set up.

We know what you say and it has never made any sense.

let's limit ourself to A/V quality (i.e. forget ownership, choice....)

1) If Richie has a Gb internet connection can he choose on any streaming provider to stream at Gb speed? or to a spead equivalent to UHD BD? The answer to both of those is an absolute no. Do all the streaming providers offer all the same AV options as UHD BD does?

2) If Joe has a slow internet connection with a crappy ISP does it matter? No, he might not have a choice of ISP and even if he has a choice for a better connection that would improve the streaming quality if he does not want to pay more every monh for a better internet connection that is the reality he lives in.

3) Physical media is a closed system ( data comes of disk and is used by decoders) no matter how small the streaming system is it is never closed, even if bob is a ppor student living by himself with only his phone and a router and landline connection for data for his phone he can still be there watching something when his phone decides to DL some SW updates, dl some attachements in e-mails... when you expand this to a household and multiple fdevices, a PC might be DL updates, a tablet DL emails, Bob strweaming on the TV, his spouse streaming on a different TV, their kid playing an on-line game.....

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Click here and look at the bottom line. Its real simple, Netflix is spending more on streaming than they are taking in. They just increased their debt load, again. Now their debt is many billions and their legal obligations for future content is many billions more.

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

Not commenting with any of the other points but just happened to click the financials link because I was curious. I learned to read and create these in a college accounting but I'm a bit rusty but pretty much can read the main things correctly.

Cash Flow is different than the balance sheet and income statement. It is more of a guide of how liquid they are.

At a glance, Netflix has assets worth $26 Billion Dollars and liabilities of about 21 Billion so they are worth more than what they owe. The shareholders own 5.25 Billion in Equity.

As far as income goes it looks like they made 1.21 Billion in profit on on 15.8 Billion in revenue in 2018 making it their best year ever.

So Netflix is definitely making money.

NightMovie901 Don't forget

1) Netflix= streaming + DVD renntal (+ production company)while Wendell
clearly talked about streaming. You would need to go into greater details then the consolidated sheet

2) I don't see where you got those numbers from Wendell link

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey don't pop a vein, you guys are the ones that said Discs are better because they have more Bandwidth than Streaming.

yes, the same why I know a 1$ bill is less then a 10$ bill which is less then 100$ bill.

There's a lot more than just Bandwidth, and as Equipment Manufactures drop out those capabilities just stand out more. Quality is all in what you perceive and enjoy, but if you are going on mere Specs and Stats then you have to look at the best equipment available and that is costly. You guys are the ones that said "Good Enough," and that goes for both Digital and Physical!

Yes there is more then just BW, but that is immaterial to the point. To go with my previous point, every day at work we make popcorn, on Friday I ran out of oil for the machine so I went across the street to the dollar store to get some oil now if all I had was a 1$ bill that would have been OK (since it is food and so no sales tax) but if I paid with a 10$ bill I would have had 9$ back and if I paid with a 100$ bill I would have had 99$ back.


Same here there is a difference even if you want to admit it or not.

Even if someone where to build a cheap B&W TV, you might not say "the blues or reds...." look better on the UHD BD then streaming, but the low BW of streaming will destroy the B&W component as well and so there will still be a difference. Yes if someone takes a Ferrarie on a bad overgrown bumpy dirt path they might have more issues then a Jeep, But even with a Jeep the bad overgrown bumpy dirt path will be more uncomfortable then driving on a newly paved highway.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know when you guys start attacking the person, I hit a nerve. I think it shows a lot more class when people respect each other.

but respect should be earned

[Vilya]

I like peach cobbler a la mode.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by octagon

Can a home theater shopper get 'the best' for $10k or would that shopper have to settle for 'good enough'?

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure the economy minded consumer could save a nickel and get gear that's totally adequate for under $10k but for those that value the best home video and audio presentation possible $10k would barely cover speakers, no?

Even for a lower rent audio/videophile $10k is a pretty limited budget.

We're talking about a display and a receiver and what...8-12 speakers? Media player(s), gear furniture, speaker wires, interconnects, remotes...$10k doesn't sound like a whole lot.

Sure, if it just gots to be good enough you could put a very nice setup together for under $10k but a real home theater? For somebody who values quality?

$10k probably ain't gonna cut it.

cost depends on what you want (so it makes such a discussion moot IMHO. You can sit on a log, existing couch or run out and buy the best reclining d-box seats there is. Theere would be a BIG difference in $, it will affect thye experience, but in the end it won't affect A/V quality.
If you are building a room so that you can watch with 30 of your closest friends you nedd a big bright 4k projector (very expensive), if you ware building a room for 1 person a decent size TV can do the job (a lot cheaper)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I think they absolutely should. It would be absurd to expect that a one time purchase means that the providers should be required to continue supporting every product they've ever released forever. It's perfectly reasonable for them to drop support for unprofitable products.

But we, as customers, should know better than to buy a product that requires continued support to function when there are plenty of alternatives that don't.

agree 100%

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

NightMovie901 Don't forget

1) Netflix= streaming + DVD renntal (+ production company)while Wendell
clearly talked about streaming. You would need to go into greater details then the consolidated sheet

2) I don't see where you got those numbers from Wendell link

The disc by mail portion of Netflix is all but dead. The production company recovers its expenditures through the streaming service so I’ll stand by my original statements.

[Vilya]

I was up until 4 AM; I feel all but dead.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was up until 4 AM; I feel all but dead.

Have you watched Fire Walk With Me yet?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Krizzle1

Happy b'day Steedeel!

Thanks man.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Happy Birthday Steedeel! Take some time away from this loony bin and go have a great time! Maybe treat yourself to a nice new shiny 4K disc that you've been wanting, too?

Cheers! I had a good day.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

The disc by mail portion of Netflix is all but dead. The production company recovers its expenditures through the streaming service so I’ll stand by my original statements.

I know it is a far cry from where it used to be, but $212 million in revenue last year shows that there are still people who prefer the option of disc by mail...myself included. Even though Netflix sold off that arm of the company, and distribution centers have been reduced, they are still turning a considerable profit.

https://www.techspot.com/news/79536-...2-million.html

[avs commenter]

My parents still use Netflix disc. It's still a great option for those who live in rural areas or have slow internet

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I know it is a far cry from where it used to be, but $212 million in revenue last year shows that there are still people who prefer the option of disc by mail...myself included. Even though Netflix sold off that arm of the company, and distribution centers have been reduced, they are still turning a considerable profit.

https://www.techspot.com/news/79536-...2-million.html

If my math is correct 212 million on 15.8 billion of revenue equates to about 1.34% of revenue so basically an insignificant portion. Being that there is no expectation for that 1.34% to grow I would say they are focused on the other 98.66% and new avenues of revenue that can be realized and grown.

[AmishParadise]

Originally Posted by NightMovie901

The disc by mail portion of Netflix is all but dead. The production company recovers its expenditures through the streaming service so I’ll stand by my original statements.

All but dead? So dramatic. A measly 212 million by your calculation. Okay, I'll play along. So 212 million is insignificant? Insignificant to who? And why should I care? Please tell me. Just because the percentage is but a fraction of total revenue doesn't make it insignificant. Yeah, why bother right? What could Netflix possibly do with 212 million?

Do you have a point to make? Doesn't sound to me like you do. Oh yeah, the end of physical media is near. Streaming is the future, yada, yada, yada. New flash. Netflix can walk and crew gum at the same time. They're not going to say no to 212 million in revenue. And about the future, the future is what the free market dictates. As long as there is a market for a given service you can bet someone will step up to provide it, even a market that only generates a measly 212 million in annual revenue.

[Vilya]

I am pretty sure that if I saw $212M lying around that I'd do my best to pick it up. Grabbing 2,120,000 $100 bills might require a few trips, though.

My sister still uses Netflix's disc by mail service; all she has is 12 Mbps DSL internet service; DSL is all that is offered where she lives. She is just one of many that the big ISPs have no interest in reaching; apparently it's not worth the investment for them to do so. People like her will continue to be left out of this streaming future that many here just assume is available to all.

It is also my understanding that Netflix's disc selection includes many titles that are unavailable on their streaming service, which is good because I find that their streaming selection, while very large, is also very mediocre for the most part.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Cheers! I had a good day.

I'm glad that you had a good day, but I think that I instructed you to have a great time. You'll just have to try again until you get it right.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by AmishParadise

Do you have a point to make?

Not sure why pro streamers continue to use the success of SVOD to make streaming look like it has some big advantage over physical media sales. SVOD is just another form of pay TV and as such represents a fairly small revenue amount when compared to traditional pay TV.

Physical sales ≠ SVOD
Physical sales = EST
SVOD = Pay TV

Currently physical sales is almost double that of EST. One would think with 230 million connected devices in the US that EST would be doing much better than it is.

Last I heard Hulu was still losing money, anyone heard different?

[NightMovie901]

Originally Posted by AmishParadise

All but dead? So dramatic. A measly 212 million by your calculation. Okay, I'll play along. So 212 million is insignificant? Insignificant to who? And why should I care? Please tell me. Just because the percentage is but a fraction of total revenue doesn't make it insignificant. Yeah, why bother right? What could Netflix possibly do with 212 million?

Do you have a point to make? Doesn't sound to me like you do. Oh yeah, the end of physical media is near. Streaming is the future, yada, yada, yada. New flash. Netflix can walk and crew gum at the same time. They're not going to say no to 212 million in revenue. And about the future, the future is what the free market dictates. As long as there is a market for a given service you can bet someone will step up to provide it, even a market that only generates a measly 212 million in annual revenue.

The revenue does not factor in COGS so who knows how much of that 212 million they keep as income.

My point is that Discs are an insignificant part of Netflix's business at this point. I'm not making any commentary on anything other than that.

I mean the margin of error and a lot of numbers we see is +/- 3% so that 1.34% falls in the margin of error.

Regarding, the free market stepping up to provide what someone wants I will leave you with this example:

Basically EVERY cable and satellite subscriber would prefer to buy channels ala carte. That market demand is HUGE. Has it happened? Will it happen?