Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Krizzle1]

I cant really keep up with this thread sometimes, but yeah, whenever I talk about digital (in this thread) im talking about streaming/subscription services too (Netflix, Amazon)
(^just referring to an article posted a page or two back)

Im failing to see the point of this thread anymore, as its not really bringing in anything new, its just users complaining about the opposing service, I think this thread should be locked.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Krizzle1

I cant really keep up with this thread sometimes, but yeah, whenever I talk about digital (in this thread) im talking about streaming/subscription services too (Netflix, Amazon)
(^just referring to an article posted a page or two back)

Im failing to see the point of this thread anymore, as its not really bringing in anything new, its just users complaining about the opposing service, I think this thread should be locked.

Including all of its spin-off clones? Have you seen how many variations of this thread exist and continue to be spawned? You're their daddy, like it or not.

The main point to this thread, and most threads, is that the people who frequent them enjoy doing so and that alone is more than enough of a reason for it to continue. This comment makes for the 14,611th comment posted in this thread- that speaks to its relevance and to its enduring popularity.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

How many times does one have to say SVOD = Pay TV? EST = physical. When will you people ever learn?

Originally Posted by Krizzle1

I cant really keep up with this thread sometimes, but yeah, whenever I talk about digital (in this thread) im talking about streaming/subscription services too (Netflix, Amazon)
(^just referring to an article posted a page or two back)

This Thread has lasted years, and circumstances have changed dramatically. I think this Thread is still very relevant, and people on both sides have not given up the ship. I do feel like you do, that Digital Streaming should include any form, like SVOD or EST. When you ask most people about Digital Streaming they answer with either Amazon or Netflix. I guess when the Thread started Digital was Digital HD and UV, and then it changed to MA. Digital Collections may have started with Providers like Vudu, but with Links through MA they can be accessed from various other Providers like Amazon. So Digital Streaming should include any form of Streaming, and Physical is just Disc. Having good access to both sounds like the best solution.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

Considering I buy both disc and digital, I'm probably the least biased one in this thread. I don't post much 'pro disc' stuff because, as you indicated, there is already plenty of that here.

And yeah, it would be tough leaving this thread. Steedeel is probably the dumbest poster on this whole site. And yet, I'm addicted to his nonsense. Hell, he might even be a parody account, that's been trolling us this whole time. I don't care. It still entertains me.

This whole time? Ummmmmmm...........Member since 2018. Been visiting this thread for years but just joined last year?

Yeah, I own my house, I have a job I love, I’m very close to my family and I have all the tech I could possibly want, if that is what being dumb brings to my life, dumb can’t be bad!
I mean, “on this whole site’, wow! It’s almost like I touched a nerve!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, I own my house, I have a job I love, I’m very close to my family and I have all the tech I could possibly want, if that is what being dumb brings to my life, dumb can’t be bad!

Careful, that ownership may make you an elitist as well .

[The_Donster]

What up? Have been preoccupied with a new job and haven’t had the opportunity to keep up with the forum, let alone the thread. I’ve been watching various things digitally and physically on my off time. Right now my wife and I are watching Parks & Recreation via Netflix streaming during the week. I’m just too tired to watch more than a few episodes. Then we split it down the middle on our BD 2 disc rental over the weekend. One I want to watch and one we both want to watch. Caught Isle of Dogs last weekend and loved it. A rental will now become a purchase. I’ll most likely get that for her birthday in a few months. Anyway, hope all are well. I’ll post more when I’ve got something relevant to say in the thread.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

I’ve been watching various things digitally and physically on my off time.

Sure hope you enjoy your new job and work. We started a new nature series in UHD on Netflix and it looks good. Looking forward to Bumblebee and hope it does a good job with PQ and immersive audio. On the road for a few days.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

What up? Have been preoccupied with a new job and haven’t had the opportunity to keep up with the forum, let alone the thread. I’ve been watching various things digitally and physically on my off time. Right now my wife and I are watching Parks & Recreation via Netflix streaming during the week. I’m just too tired to watch more than a few episodes. Then we split it down the middle on our BD 2 disc rental over the weekend. One I want to watch and one we both want to watch. Caught Isle of Dogs last weekend and loved it. A rental will now become a purchase. I’ll most likely get that for her birthday in a few months. Anyway, hope all are well. I’ll post more when I’ve got something relevant to say in the thread.

It's great to hear from you; hopefully you'll find time to visit more frequently. Despite your being busy, it sounds like you are doing well; come out and play when you can.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by octagon

That's fine but as I said, I wasn't speaking to quality directly. I was more talking about whether an okay projector is better able to replicate the theater experience at home than an awesome 65" TV.

more or less absolutely.


1) a projector (like movie theatres and everything real arond us) uses reflective lighting while a TV is direct lighting. Even if one could calibrate both to be the exact same lumens reaching you trhere would still be a difference with the TV being more "harsh" on your eye.


2) I have a 65" (diagonal) TV in my Family room and a 10' wide screen in my HT. The two experiences are not comparable, even after I upgraded my FR TV to 4k and still used my 1080p 3d projector. the projector had a more theatre feel because the 10' image filled up more of my field of view then the TV could ever do.


3) A TV is necesserily of fixed aspect ratio. A projector can be set up for variable aspect ratios (i.e. no black bars)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All I am saying is that the room containing one's home theater gear does not have to be restricted to a single purpose. If having a dedicated room gives that room more of a theater "feel", then that's a desirable aesthetic, but the equipment will offer the same performance in either room type if both ambient light and acoustic considerations are addressed and made equivalent.

I agree with you on this.


I hate when people say "dedicated" I prefer "designed primarily as" or something equivalent to that.

when my nieces and nephews where younger and all the holidays where at my place they used to go on the procscenium and use it as a stage and make a show for us. Did that behavior fundamentaly change my room? I don't think so because all the design ansdd set-up did not change.


One of my niece for three years decided she wanted her birthday party to be a BBQ followed by a slumber party at my place. Because a bunch of girls slept on the recliner in my HT did it fundamentalyu change stuff.


My oldest sister has a single row of seating in her "HT" the first row has a sofabed as part of the seating. should that feature disqualify it from being called an HT?


One of my friends has a foosball table and wet bar behind the second row. is that important

I think there should be at leatst 6' of wasted space between the first row and the screen and at least 3' behind the last row. so if someone uses those spaces productively hile not harmingt the movie watching experience then I don't see why it can't be called or thought of as an HT .

----
when you say "If having a dedicated room gives that room more of a theater "feel", then that's a desirable aesthetic, but the equipment will offer the same performance in either room type if both ambient light and acoustic considerations are addressed and made equivalent."


for me that includes proper searing (all of it facing forward). the minut you have someoine sitting perpandicular to the screen he can't have a proper A/V experience.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

This Thread has lasted years, and circumstances have changed dramatically. I think this Thread is still very relevant, and people on both sides have not given up the ship. I do feel like you do, that Digital Streaming should include any form, like SVOD or EST. When you ask most people about Digital Streaming they answer with either Amazon or Netflix. I guess when the Thread started Digital was Digital HD and UV, and then it changed to MA. Digital Collections may have started with Providers like Vudu, but with Links through MA they can be accessed from various other Providers like Amazon. So Digital Streaming should include any form of Streaming, and Physical is just Disc. Having good access to both sounds like the best solution.

I don't think the issue is discussing both but the reality of both.

Studios might have stopped distributing new content on VHS years ago, but people can still watch their VHS tapes and I would guess there are places where people can still buy old content they are interested in buying= (pawn shops, Kijiji, Garage sales....) But the ability to access EST content is paramount on having a healthy EST market. If one day 100% of new content is only available on Netflix (to keep things simple). I won't be able to buy BDs of the latest movies but I will be able to watch the BDs I bought in 2019, But if apple store and MA and Vudu shut down the guy that bought films on those platforms won't be able to watch them even if Netflix is still an option.


It does not matter if we are talking physical or digital with rentals (e.g. the guy paid blockbuster to watch X on VHS then he paid them again to watch it on DVD then again on BD then he paid VUDU to rent it digitally in the future scenario when the only choice is Netflix he will pay them to rent it on Netflix.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't think the issue is discussing both but the reality of both.

Studios might have stopped distributing new content on VHS years ago, but people can still watch their VHS tapes and I would guess there are places where people can still buy old content they are interested in buying= (pawn shops, Kijiji, Garage sales....) But the ability to access EST content is paramount on having a healthy EST market. If one day 100% of new content is only available on Netflix (to keep things simple). I won't be able to buy BDs of the latest movies but I will be able to watch the BDs I bought in 2019, But if apple store and MA and Vudu shut down the guy that bought films on those platforms won't be able to watch them even if Netflix is still an option.


It does not matter if we are talking physical or digital with rentals (e.g. the guy paid blockbuster to watch X on VHS then he paid them again to watch it on DVD then again on BD then he paid VUDU to rent it digitally in the future scenario when the only choice is Netflix he will pay them to rent it on Netflix.

I know what you are trying to say, and the people that prefer Physical have that Disc to play anytime they want. On the other hand we are living in some exciting times where access to any Content is just an App away. Even Criterion Channel has gone Streaming. All the major Studios and Providers have gone Streaming with their own Content. Your scenario of Netflix is not realistic, their Streaming Service does not include Renting or Buying. Change it to Amazon, my Collection, Renting, and Buying are there. Digital Streaming just has so many options, the only draw backs I see are set up, access, and Bandwidth.

[dublinbluray108]

Just a few thoughts about Disney+ & a few other things that caught my interest.

I presume Disney+ now have all the newest online rights to every episode of The Simpsons on their own app. That will probably mean that FX Networks app rights will be no more for showing new episodes of The Simpsons for people living in the U.S. after November 12th. Is the FX Networks app a free streaming service from Fox or is it a paid service? I was also hearing stuff being reported about Frozen 2 being a streaming exclusive for Disney+ along with other movies as well. I suppose this decision is for the international markets including the U.S.

I myself have a fair number of Disney Blu-rays in my collection at home. My own profile page on this website actually displays them. I also own some DVDs & Blu-rays from Marvel studios like Spiderman, Iron Man & The Hulk along with a few more characters. I don't think that this service is for me because I personally don't see a lot of value in paying for it when I already own some Blu-rays at home.

When my own country (Ireland) & the UK both have multiple linear TV subscription options for both National Geographic & ESPN right now; it could become a really confusing & complex situation for new Disney+ customers here to have access to this new online service as well as paying for a monthly linear TV subscription. There will probably be a decision later on to not include these services on Disney+ separately. They could be provided with a bundle with BT Sport for ESPN because BT have their own channel in these markets called BT Sport ESPN HD. Sky could do this in theory as well as they also have their own movie channel showing Disney movies for Sky Cinema subscribers in these two countries. They also have the Disney channels provided on their own TV package which includes the kids channels.

All of this stuff is available from National Geographic & ESPN is virtually available on every linear Pay TV service in the UK & Ireland apart from those who have Virgin Media Ireland cable subscriptions in the Republic of Ireland. Virgin Media Ireland have their own channels called Virgin Media Sport available for free on their own cable platform & on a mobile subscription that shows non exclusive rights such as live european football from The Champions League & Europa League, non ROI qualifiers for Euro 2020 and Formula E rights.

Then you have the current situation with Disney Life not being potentially available later on in these countries. It will probably become replaced soon with Disney+ once it's eventually launched. The selection I have heard is terrible value for money. That opinion also applies to prime video Ireland too. For €3 a month; people in my own country by & large only get access to the prime video originals & a few movies and nothing else.

My own local supermarket in Dublin has a small selection of physical media available for movies & music. It's good that they have them available for customers. But no choices for Blu-rays are on offer from their shelves. Only a limited selection of DVDs & CD's are available in stock.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Careful, that ownership may make you an elitist as well .

Proud of it mate! I work, I earn, I reap benefits.

Can’t stand people who are fit and able and choose not to work. They rely on handouts from the state for all their days. If you are fit, you should work.

By the way, that doesn’t mean people who have retired early. Nothing wrong with working then being in the position to retire early.

[Wendell R. Breland]

For streamers that live in the Twilight Zone. Below is a list of the major studios and what they are doing. Info from past articles from the only trade rag, Media Play News, formerly known as Home Media Magazine.

• Columbia/Sony - AVOD (Crackle) for several years now. Closed the Sony Pictures store. Provides digital codes with disc.
• Disney/Fox - SVOD late 2019. SVOD/AVOD Hulu for several years. Provides digital codes with disc.
• Lionsgate - SVOD (Starz) for several years now. No digital codes with disc.
• MGM - No SVOD streaming and none announced. No digital codes with disc.
• Paramount Pictures - No SVOD streaming and none announced. Closed the Paramount Pictures store. No digital codes with disc.
• Universal - SVOD sometime in 2020. Provides digital codes with disc.
• Warner Media - SVOD sometime in 2020. Provides digital codes with disc.

Criterion streaming was available for several years as part of FilmStruck which went defunct. Now Criterion has reemerged as the Criterion Channel.

Want to do some real fun, try to figure out what combo of streaming providers/hardware has UHD, HDR, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos/DTS:X and does it properly.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know what you are trying to say, and the people that prefer Physical have that Disc to play anytime they want.

not realy my point that was more of an aside

On the other hand we are living in some exciting times where access to any Content is just an App away. Even Criterion Channel has gone Streaming. All the major Studios and Providers have gone Streaming with their own Content.

won't disagree with that, I can see the benefit for renters.

1) Looking at the 3 VHS tapes and saying "no I want to watch something else", getting dressed, putting on a coat, shovel the drive way, take the car, rush to Blockbusters, finding out the new releases you want are all already out, making it back watching the film and then needing to do it all again to bring it back is a pain.

2) looking at the 5 DVDs h owned, then looking at the two DVDs from Netflix, deciding "I don't realy feal like Iany of those but I will see the ones sent by Netflix so that I can send them back" or "I really don't want any of those I will go out to the redbox machine and get a different film are also quite painful

3) go sit in front of the TV pick Netflix "no the movie is not there" go to amazon "no not there either" go to Disney "there it is, that is what I want to see", and even if you want to see something and can't find it on any of the apps/platform there is a lot of other choices that make it a lot less painful then 1 or 2

but I am a collector and back when the rest of the world was stuck with the pain of #1 I did the math and decided I can afford to buy a copy of the film I want and so for ages things have been "more exciting" then streaming is today for the renters. Today I go down, start the popcorn maker, start the system, pick a film put in my BD player all before the popcorn is done and sit band watch the film. I don't need to wait for my projector to warm up before I start the process, I don't need to type out the titles or scroll through lists to find what I want and I don't need to look through different services to find what I want to watch.

Now don't get me wrong, from a convenience/quality of life point of view there is very little difference between #3 and let's call my situation #4 while there is a big difference between 1 or 2 and 3 but for me 3 is not that exciting because it is not better then what I have now (or had for a very long time).

Your scenario of Netflix is not realistic, their Streaming Service does not include Renting or Buying. Change it to Amazon, my Collection, Renting, and Buying is there. Digital Streaming just has so many options, the only draw backs I see are set up, access, and Bandwidth.

not sure what you mean by what is in bold. For example I bought my house, payd some guy once and I can do what I want with it. This guy I know moved here for a two year project, when he was here every month he had to pay rent to continue using the house he lived in and when he left and stopped paying rent he could not continue using that house (let's say decide to come for Vaccation and stay there). For me buy= pay once use it how you want, rent= pay and use by what is in the rental agreement. If somene likes SW and watches it each May 4th if they buy it on BD or on Vudu (don't know if it ios there, but let's assume it is or let's pick a different film) they pay for it once and can watch it on subsequent years. On the otyher hand if someone rentys it on Vudu they would need to pay the next year to watch it again. If someone streamed it last year on Netflix will they need to pay netflix again to stream it again next month or won't they be able to see it again if they decide to stop paying Netflix?

As for the rest, like I said I used Netflix as an example, but if you prefer lets make the point with Amazon. Let's assume Amazon is the only choice and digital purchases drop to the point where Amazon decides to drop it and only offer rentals


1) Amazon anounces "we will grandfather in people that bought films on our purchase side and so you won't need to pay again to watch them but new content will be unavailable for purchase"

or

2) Amazon anounces " due to our contracts with the studios not only will new purchases be disalawed but any prior purchase becomes void and you will need to rent it to see it."

if someone cares about collecting digital copies of films he won't be able to do so even if the rental option is still there. The only difference between 1-2 are for titles bought in the past.


the truth is that the discussion should be even more granular (if someone cares about buying VHS tapes it does not matter if you can still buy the latest film on DVD or BD or UHD BD and if someone likes buying a digital copy on Vudu it does not matter if you can buy it on iTunes or Amazon if Vudu closes shop)

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It's great to hear from you; hopefully you'll find time to visit more frequently. Despite your being busy, it sounds like you are doing well; come out and play when you can.

Life hasn’t been too bad since the move. Love the new job, but it hasn’t been without its challenges since I completed my training. Had a couple of bad teammates that made the job harder than it should have been. More to that story, but don’t want to sideline the thread too much. Appreciate the well wishes.

[dublinbluray108]

My digital copy of The Monuments Men has disappeared from my Flixster Video library. I still have the Blu-ray of the movie.

Other stuff I found today was that DVD & Blu-ray sales have halved in the past five years according to an MPAA report.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

Also an exclusive for Star Wars fans here in which, an anonymous source from Disney UK, says Disney is doing work to release the entirety of The Skywalker Saga on 4K Blu-ray in 2020. This is huge news for fans of the movie because it could mean at long last that the original cut of the original Stars Wars will be released on physical media.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/film/c...alker-saga-4k/

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

My digital copy of The Monuments Men has disappeared from my Flixster Video library. I still have the Blu-ray of the movie.

Other stuff I found today was that DVD & Blu-ray sales have halved in the past five years according to an MPAA report.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

Also an exclusive for Star Wars fans here which says Disney is doing work to release the entirety of The Skywalker Saga on 4K Blu-ray in 2020. This is huge news for fans of the movie because it could mean at long last that the original cut of the original Stars Wars will be released on physical media.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/film/c...alker-saga-4k/

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

My digital copy of The Monuments Men has disappeared from my Flixster Video library. I still have the Blu-ray of the movie.

Other stuff I found today was that DVD & Blu-ray sales have halved in the past five years according to an MPAA report.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

Also an exclusive for Star Wars fans here in which, an anonymous source from Disney UK, says Disney is doing work to release the entirety of The Skywalker Saga on 4K Blu-ray in 2020. This is huge news for fans of the movie because it could mean at long last that the original cut of the original Stars Wars will be released on physical media.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/film/c...alker-saga-4k/

It's a shame about your digital movie; hopefully it will return after a brief hiatus. Digital titles like to take little vacations like this from what I have read many times in the digital forums.

As for that article, it combines sales and rentals within both physical and streaming providing a distorted picture of both. The sustained double digit growth lies with subscription streaming.

DVD sales account for the vast majority of the decline in physical sales. Look at the drop in DVD sales over just the last five years alone:

2014: $4.662 billion
2015: $3.960 billion
2016: $3.431 billion
2017: $2.822 billion
2018: $2.246 billion

DVD sales are down nearly 51.8% compared to 2014.

Blu-ray (+ 4K UHD) sales:

2014: $2.122 billion
2015: $2.022 billion
2016: $2.023 billion
2017: $1.888 billion
2018: $1.863 billion

Blu-ray sales are down 12.2% compared to 2014. Blu-ray is slowly declining while 4K UHD disc continues to grow.

Source:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1057