Pioneer Elite BDP-LX500

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I like real professional reviews with a battery of tests measurements and unbiased listening and viewing from professional audio pshycoacoustic experts and video certified calibrators. No advertisement, no compensation, no favor, just the full entire truth. ...Like http://archimago.blogspot.com/

Yes you want a real critique, with extensive scope, not a proxy for product retail parties.

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Since no in production Blu-ray players internally decode HDCD anymore, and since no A/V receivers are being made anymore that decode HDCD, the HDCD feature on some older audio CD's has become a dead format that is not supported by anyone anymore.

I better understand your point now in conjunction with (allegedly) no AVRs supporting HDCD any longer. I'm curious how you're able to so comprehensively make that assertion. Do you research EVERY manufacturer's entire AVR line?

Part of the reason I ask is because there is a similar issue possible with regards to DVD-A that I've posted about elsewhere recently that has me curious about the best way to more quickly and easily research how far back one has to go to get a major manuf's AVR that has: 1) m.c. analog inputs; 2) Audyssey; and 3) L and R channel pre-outs for under, say, $1k.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here in the event of a problem with my 203 and the possibility of cessation of then out-of-warranty OPPO player support. If my that were to happen . . . and Sony and Pio were to cease DVD-A support in their 4K UHD BD players in, say, two years . . . I/one might ironically need to go back to a DVD player that supports DVD-A to enjoy those discs to their fullest. Since that goes back to a time before HDMI or at least HDMI supporting high rez DVD-A and SACD, I/one would need an AVR that has those analog connections.

But your comments a couple of days ago about what the BDA should do (which I think there's no chance of happening) regarding bringing back L and R analog outputs to supposedly spur player sales made me wonder about why you don't even mention the aftermarkets such as Audiogon, ebay and Amazon Marketplace.

Instead of positing that consumers and these businesses and churches are SOL, they could do the same thing as I/one might need to do to get an AVR that supports HDCD and/or m.c. analog: Buy an older piece that meets the need.

In under thirty seconds, I found ebay listings for Panny DMP-BDT220s. Analog outs. There's even one for $22.

[LordoftheRings]

Today's MLP (Bob Stuart) from DVD-Audio and HDCD ("Prof." Keith O. Johnson and Michael "Pflash" Pflaumer of Pacific Microsonics Inc., then purchased by Microsoft), have been replaced by the new kid on the block, MQA (Meridian Audio - Bob Stuart).

SACD is still strong (50%+ Classical music).

* I will never play my albums from Michael Jackson, ever.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Yes you want a real critique, with extensive scope, not a proxy for product retail parties.

It's a battlefield out there. It's nice to see Pioneer back in the 4K marketplace...BR universal players.
Pioneer Elite Kuro MicroLED 4K/8K TVs?

[RalphoR]

An 8k Kuro microLED? That would be something.....count me interested if it ever comes to pass.

[Paul.R.S]

"It may just be the most well-built piece of AV equipment I have ever used." --Tony O'Brien

Sheesh.

[Mobe1969]

I've been noticing a stack of posts on the AVSForum thread on the player with so many playback issues on this player. It is not just a few posts, a lot, and a lot of titles. Seems related to 100GB discs.

[RalphoR]

I haven't run into that problem and I have several 100 GB discs

[Rocketstail]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

"It may just be the most well-built piece of AV equipment I have ever used." --Tony O'Brien

Sheesh.

Now if he had said the LX800 was the best built Blu-ray player he had ever used it would be true.

[Rocketstail]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

I haven't run into that problem and I have several 100 GB discs

How can you tell if a disc is 100GB or over?

is this disc 100 GB?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Rocketstail

How can you tell if a disc is 100GB or over?

is this disc 100 GB?

Per the site listing for the US release it’s BD-66.
A BDinfo scan will also confirm how big the data is on a disc.

[hansolo]

Originally Posted by Rocketstail

How can you tell if a disc is 100GB or over?

Usually you can see it visually from data side of the disc. Two bar codes in the inner circle of disc near center hole means two layers (66GB) and three bar codes equals to triple layer (100 GB). You may have to turn the disc to different angles relative to light source in room to see those faint bar codes.

There are no >100 GB discs. Fouth layer option exists in the specification but is not utilized for the commercial UHD BDs available.

[lgans316]

Clickbait title lol. For a moment, thought Pioneer have gone into administration.

[Rocketstail]

Originally Posted by hansolo

Usually you can see it visually from data side of the disc. Two bar codes in the inner circle of disc near center hole means two layers (66GB) and three bar codes equals to triple layer (100 GB). You may have to turn the disc to different angles relative to light source in room to see those faint bar codes.

There are no >100 GB discs. Fouth layer option exists in the specification but is not utilized for the commercial UHD BDs available.

OK thanks! it's just with a few owners talking about problems with 100 GB discs and others not having problems with the same discs it's a bit unusual.

[HDTV1080P]

Pioneer Elite products are known as high quality items with excellent build quality. In the old days Pioneer Elite products had a 2 year warranty, however starting around 4 years ago new Pioneer Elite products now have a 3 year parts and labor warranty. Back in 2008 Pioneer Elite plasma screens were the best of the best in picture quality and build quality. In April of 2009 Pioneer stopped making plasma screens, however up until the year 2016 the classic 2008 Pioneer PRO-141FD and PRO-101FD was used as a reference display to compare all other displays too. For 8 years, the 2008 model Pioneer plasmas had an overall better picture quality. However, in 2016 4K OLED flat panel screens offered deeper blacks with better static resolution when compared to the 2008 1080P Pioneer plasma screens. The main advantage of plasmas over OLED is plasmas have better motion resolution. It is really amazing to see a Pioneer flat panel screen being used as a reference display for 8 years.



Pioneer Elite A/V receivers are also one of the best in the industry. However, when it comes to Blu-ray players the 2016 OPPO UDP-203 is still used as a reference 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player to compare every other Blu-ray player coming on the market.



The reference 2016 OPPO UDP-203 with a $549 list price is a much better Blu-ray player when compared to the 2018 Pioneer Elite UPD-LX500. In addition, the Pioneer UDP-LX500 has double the list price, at $1099. OPPO Blu-ray players were engineered in the USA and assembled in China. Pioneer Blu-ray players are engineered in Japan and assembled in China (Both OPPO and Pioneer use high-end Chinese parts).However because OPPO Digital INC back in January of 2018 stopped making Blu-ray players, the Pioneer UDP-LX500 by default is the best replacement on the market for those that need a universal 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player that plays SACD’s and DVD-Audio discs. However, the 2018 Pioneer UDP-LX500 4K Blu-ray player is half the price when compared to Pioneers older BDP-09FD 1080P Blu-ray player that had a list price of $2,200. The old Pioneer BDP-09FD had 4GB of internal memory for BD-LIVE and 7.1 analog audio outputs. The new Pioneer UDP-LX500 does not have any internal memory for BD-LIVE and requires one to plug in an external USB drive that is at least 1GB in size to use BD-LIVE. In addition, the new Pioneer UDP-LX500 for $1,099 only has 2.0 channel analog audio outputs and no 7.1 analog audio outputs. The old reference OPPO UDP-203 for $549 has both 1GB of internal memory for BD-LIVE plus 7.1 analog audio outputs. In addition, the OPPO UDP-203 has 3 USB ports (2 rear USB 3.0 ports and 1 front USB 2.0 port). The new 2018 Pioneer UDP-LX500 has one rear USB 3.0 port and one front USB 2.0 port. Other advantages of the OPPO UDP-203 is worldwide universal power supply, HDMI input, in/out trigger, WI-FI, etc. Now the new Pioneer UDP-LX500 does have 1Gbps networking Ethernet jack just like the OPPO UDP-203, but the Pioneer lacks WI-FI. Most people that are spending $1,099 on a Blu-ray player in theory are going to have a wired home network with an Ethernet jack. In addition, there might be some picture and sound quality advantages with the Pioneer UDP-LX500 not offering WI-FI on the circuit board. In addition, both the OPPO UDP-203 and Pioneer UDP-LX500 do not offer any streaming features, and the Ethernet jack on both players is used for firmware updates and playing video/audio files on one’s private home network.



4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs, Blu-ray 3D, standard Blu-ray, DVD video, audio CD, SACD ,and DVD-Audio discs are supported on the Pioneer UDP-LX500. According to the Sound and Vision magazine review the Pioneer UDP-LX500 appears to only convert DSD audio files to PCM, however the user manual mentions that only under certain video resolution settings the Pioneer UDP-LX500 well bitstream a DSD file from a SACD. The Pioneer has the rare source direct feature that is only found on high-end Blu-ray players like the OPPO UDP-203.



The Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 has excellent mechanical build quality, however the software that runs the Blu-ray player could use some improvements to make it closer to the quality of a OPPO Blu-ray player. The Pioneer UDP-LX500 is not perfect and it sounds like it might need a firmware update to correct some issues. While the Pioneer UDP-LX500 passes most of the video tests, it fails some of the video tests that the OPPO UDP-203 passes (both the Pioneer and OPPO use the same video chip). Also the Pioneer UDP-LX500 had trouble playing back some 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs that the OPPO UDP-203 plays just fine. A future firmware update in theory should fix these issues.


Overall, for those consumers that already own a 2016 OPPO UDP-203, it is strongly recommend that one keeps their OPPO Blu-ray player since even in 2019 the OPPO outperforms all other Blu-ray players on the market. However, OPPO no longer makes Blu-ray players and the Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 is a close second to the OPPO but at double the original list price. In theory after a few future firmware updates to the Pioneer UDP-LX500, the Pioneer should pass more video tests and have less playback glitches.

Select quotes from the Sound and Vision magazine review

“The Pioneer Elite UPD-LX500 has joined my list of recommended Ultra HD Blu-ray players. I'm thrilled to now know of a solid option for universal disc playback. Also, the Pioneer's first-rate tone mapping makes it an excellent choice for projector owners. While its interface could use a bit of sprucing, disc playback was for the most part was reliable, regardless of the format being played. I wouldn't call the LX500 a perfect replacement for an Oppo, but it comes closer than most.”

“I didn't see an option to output a DSD bitstream in the player's setup menus,…”


“It has now been a full year since Oppo Digital ceased production of its popular Ultra HD Blu-ray player lineup.”



“Unfortunately, the LX500 lacks an HDMI input—a distinguishing feature found on Oppo models that let you use the player's video processing and scaling with external HDMI sources.”

“At this price point, I was disappointed to see no balanced or multi-channel analog outputs.”


“But the Pioneer's onscreen structure was not nearly as polished as what I'm used to seeing with my Oppo player and navigating through video media consequently proved cumbersome.”


“Based on my test results, the Pioneer looks to be based on the same video chip used in my Oppo player, though it lacks the Oppo's fine-tuning options (video-based de-interlacing, aspect ratio control, etc.).”


“I spent a couple weeks using the Pioneer as my daily disc spinner and eventually grew accustomed to the interface, which I would rate as faster and more robust than the Panasonic's.”

“The LX500 is definitely another player I'd recommend along with the Panasonic for those with projection setups who seek improved HDR tone mapping over what their projectors can deliver.”



“The LX500 had some difficulty loading a UHD Blu-ray of Lucy, a disc I spin regularly for testing, and one that has created problems with other players in the past. I also experienced freeze- ups and even image break-ups on occasion. These problems cropped up with a few titles, including Blade Runner 2049. Playing the same disc, which showed no signs of abuse or damage, in my reference Oppo UDP-203 player revealed no such issues.”

Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 Ultra HD Blu-ray Player (Sound and Vision magazine Review link)

[RalphoR]

I've never owned an OPPO but I'm sure it was/is a great universal player. Not sure how they were able to pack the 203 with so much tech for the price point they came in at. Obviously, it wasn't sustainable.

As for the LX500 I haven't experienced any of the issues from the article(s) quoted above. All I can say is it's an excellent universal player that does everything I require it to do. It might not be quite as loaded as the OPPO but I'm not sure what I'm missing that I'd absolutely have to have.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

I've never owned an OPPO but I'm sure it was/is a great universal player. Not sure how they were able to pack the 203 with so much tech for the price point they came in at. Obviously, it wasn't sustainable.

As for the LX500 I haven't experienced any of the issues from the article(s) quoted above. All I can say is it's an excellent universal player that does everything I require it to do. It might not be quite as loaded as the OPPO but I'm not sure what I'm missing that I'd absolutely have to have.

If my 3 year old OPPO UDP-203 were to every break and I could not get it repaired. The Pioneer UDP-LX500 would become my first choice as a replacement since it comes very close to the OPPO UDP-203. According to a old Widescreen Review magazine article one of the reasons why OPPO Digital INC stopped making Blu-ray players was because of inflation in high quality Chinese parts. Also OPPO Digital INC had a policy that their Blu-ray players are price locked for the life of the player. And at $549 because of inflation in high quality Chinese parts the player could not be made anymore. In theory if OPPO Digital INC did every start making 4K Blu-ray players again, the replacement for the OPPO UDP-203 might be a $799 list price which would be only $300 cheaper then the Pioneer. On Amazon used OPPO UDP-203's are selling for $1,200 right now and new ones for around $2,000.


Hopefully the 2018 Pioneer UDP-LX500 well be sucussful in America, if so we might see Pioneer launch a new and improved 4K Blu-ray player in 2020.

[LordoftheRings]

That's a nice review of a solid Universal 4K Blu player (23 pounds) by a solid AV reviewer.

[Mobe1969]

Can anyone with the unit comment on the subtitle options? The Panasonic has luminance and position options, that aren't in the manual, so was wondering what the Pioneer might be able to do.

Cheers

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

In my honest and experienced opinion, Sound & Vision and Widescreen Review are mainly advertisement. Some of their articles are informative but the reviews too vague, without substance.

Been there for a very long time; meaning I'm familiar with the style, the writers, the purpose, since both their inception and along the years' transformations.
Second hand adds mags.

I am the one that was doing the DVD Benchmark you linked to from Secrets before. With Sound and Vision the limitation is the work count, because it is based on a print magazine article. So it is trying to cover the main points without getting lost in the smallest details that probably don't matter to more than 99.9% of the readers. There is certainly no incentive for me to be flattery or cater to the product though. I don't get paid any different from a good or bad review or received any pressure to.