The Criterion Collection

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

I think the home video market is like a shark. It needs to keep moving forward and eating or it will die.

And I remember the days when Criterion was the forefront- they didn't have to be pushed.

To quote Bu'wheat, "It's been a looooong time since dem days."

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The thought of upgrading my existing Criterion Blu-rays to 4K discs sort of breaks my heart

Moving from great stuff to even better? It makes my heart sing!

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by edmoney

But Kino actually said that they are looking to regrade the colors of the other two to match that of For a Few Dollars More for a potential UHD set. They are currently doing color tests.

From what I understand, there are a lot of issues baked into the masters, which is why their last attempt to correct the colors resulted in the discs that they released. Have they given a specific reason to suggest that they would get it more right this time?

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by regeyer

That was done by most studios with DVD/Blu-Ray Combo Packs. And Criterion tried that. But they failed. Why? Because we have to remember that a large part of Criterion's sales go to DVD only buyers. These people/institutions do not want to pay more to get a Blu_Ray copy they'd never use. So Criterion ditched the dual format releases.

I think Criterion learned from its mistake and won't be trying that again. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to spend more for a UHD/Blu-Ray combo, I thing that there are many Criterion customers who would be unwilling to spend the extra $5-$10 for the dual format release. That's why I don't see that happening.

IMO, they failed because they foolishly reduced the price of their DVDs to $30 - initially BDs and DVDs were the same historical $40 price; meaning that the dual format was a win-win. If they hadn't reduced the price of DVDs, no one would have complained about dual format (except in terms of shelf space!).

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

IMO, they failed because they foolishly reduced the price of their DVDs to $30 - initially BDs and DVDs were the same historical $40 price; meaning that the dual format was a win-win. If they hadn't reduced the price of DVDs, no one would have complained about dual format (except in terms of shelf space!).

You nailed it, IMO.

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

IMO, they failed because they foolishly reduced the price of their DVDs to $30 - initially BDs and DVDs were the same historical $40 price; meaning that the dual format was a win-win. If they hadn't reduced the price of DVDs, no one would have complained about dual format (except in terms of shelf space!).

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You nailed it, IMO.

Are you saying that Criterion DVDs and Blu-Rays were originally sold for $40 each, at the same time? Or are you saying that $40 DVDs were reduced to $30 when they started releasing $40 Blu-Rays?

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

IMO, they failed because they foolishly reduced the price of their DVDs to $30 - initially BDs and DVDs were the same historical $40 price; meaning that the dual format was a win-win. If they hadn't reduced the price of DVDs, no one would have complained about dual format (except in terms of shelf space!).

I disliked the dual format and complained about it and it had nothing to with the price of DVDs.

[RojD]

I give up. Where's the price tracker icon on individual titles?

I can't find the "Price track" button below the cover.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I disliked the dual format and complained about it and it had nothing to with the price of DVDs.

What did you dislike about it?

[regeyer]

If Criterion reduced DVD prices to $30 when Blu-Ray's were released I'd think they had a reason for doing so. I imagine that the buying public would not be willing to pay the same price for a DVD as they did a Blu-Ray.

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by regeyer

Are you saying that Criterion DVDs and Blu-Rays were originally sold for $40 each, at the same time? Or are you saying that $40 DVDs were reduced to $30 when they started releasing $40 Blu-Rays?

Correct on the first one - I don't know when they dropped to $30 but I distinctly remember in the original announcements that there would be no change in price and that both formats would be the same $40.

Here's a post from the early days:

Our first Blu-ray discs are coming! We’ve picked a little over a dozen titles from the collection for Blu-ray treatment, and we’ll begin rolling them out in October. These new editions will feature glorious high-definition picture and sound, all the supplemental content of the DVD releases, and they will be priced to match our standard-def editions.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

What did you dislike about it?

The relatively short answer: I disliked that having made the jump to bluray, I was now being stuck with two extra DVDs of the exact same content and in order to accommodate those extra discs the packaging was often larger in size (see Nashville for example). Criterion claimed the move to dual format was for cost purposes, but now they were expecting both DVD and blu-ray fans to purchase extra redundant discs they did not want. What a massive waste of resources that was.

And, yes, I understand that other labels including major studios do dual-format releases too, and I'm not a fan of those either, but at least they accommodate those extra discs in packaging that is the same size as blu-ray only releases.

[critterdvd]

Originally Posted by regeyer

Are you saying that Criterion DVDs and Blu-Rays were originally sold for $40 each, at the same time? Or are you saying that $40 DVDs were reduced to $30 when they started releasing $40 Blu-Rays?

For a few years there everything was $39.99 regardless of the format. Criterion didn't feel it necessary to upcharge customers who wanted "a more authentic experience".

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by critterdvd

For a few years there everything was $39.99 regardless of the format. Criterion didn't feel it necessary to upcharge customers who wanted "a more authentic experience".

Which is exactly the approach I thought they should take for UHD: add a UHD disc into the Blu-ray package at no added MSRP.

Of course, the backlash they encountered doing this the last time means they probably won't want to try it again.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So, let's start the pool: will Criterion enter the UHD market in time?

Honestly, I don't see it happening because, as a previous poster (regeyer) said, "physical media is dying a slow death".

In terms of the dual format debate, I still think the best way to solve this for everyone is a single disc that is readable/compatible/backwards-compatible on every type of player, whether its DVD, Blu-ray, or UHD. Therefore, if someone with a 15 year old DVD player wants to watch Moonrise Kingdom in good ol' 480 SD, they can play it on their system, but if someone has the newest 4k UHD HDR media player and wants to watch that, they can choose the UHD option on the disc. Of course, I see it more likely that this new type of disc will require a new media/disc player to watch it (but if only backwards-compatibility was possible, like it was on old Apple Macbook operating systems). Obsolescence is a real pain in the ass though.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by jw007

Honestly, I don't see it happening because, as a previous poster (regeyer) said, "physical media is dying a slow death".

In terms of the dual format debate, I still think the best way to solve this for everyone is a single disc that is readable/compatible/backwards-compatible on every type of player, whether its DVD, Blu-ray, or UHD. Therefore, if someone with a 15 year old DVD player wants to watch Moonrise Kingdom in good ol' 480 SD, they can play it on their system, but if someone has the newest 4k UHD HDR media player and wants to watch that, they can choose the UHD option on the disc. Of course, I see it more likely that this new type of disc will require a new media/disc player to watch it (but if only backwards-compatibility was possible, like it was on old Apple Macbook operating systems). Obsolescence is a real pain in the ass though.

As you noted, I see a lot of technical hurdles to this approach, not the least of which is the various region-coding and DRM for the different formats.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

The relatively short answer: I disliked that having made the jump to bluray, I was now being stuck with two extra DVDs of the exact same content and in order to accommodate those extra discs the packaging was often larger in size (see Nashville for example). Criterion claimed the move to dual format was for cost purposes, but now they were expecting both DVD and blu-ray fans to purchase extra redundant discs they did not want. What a massive waste of resources that was.

And, yes, I understand that other labels including major studios do dual-format releases too, and I'm not a fan of those either, but at least they accommodate those extra discs in packaging that is the same size as blu-ray only releases.

The only thing I will say in their favor is that I like to consider my collection to be a library of sorts which can be used by my friends. Including the DVD copy gives me something I can lend or just give to friends who either don't have a blu-ray player or have demonstrated that I can't trust them to return the disc in the condition it was lent out in.

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

. . . or have demonstrated that I can't trust them to return the disc in the condition it was lent out in.

I think we all have friends/family like that.

[critterdvd]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

The only thing I will say in their favor is that I like to consider my collection to be a library of sorts which can be used by my friends. Including the DVD copy gives me something I can lend or just give to friends who either don't have a blu-ray player or have demonstrated that I can't trust them to return the disc in the condition it was lent out in.

This is why I loved combo packs. I have several siblings who I would trust to borrow my discs, but they have children I do not trust. Having the blu-ray/DVD combo packs were perfect because I could loan (or give) the DVD without having to worry about it coming back scratched and covered in Ice Cream.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Which is exactly the approach I thought they should take for UHD: add a UHD disc into the Blu-ray package at no added MSRP.

So incur a huge new cost and eat a ton of profit. Sure.

Originally Posted by edmoney

But Kino actually said that they are looking to regrade the colors of the other two to match that of For a Few Dollars More for a potential UHD set. They are currently doing color tests.

I've re-graded TGTBTU to match the Mondo and while it mostly looks great, there are a handful of shots that are so ruined they can't be fixed, especially the final image. If they are doing a UHD, they need to go back tot he original scans and start over, because putting a band aid on another band aid doesn't fix anything. (And they already tried "re-coloring" TGTBTU once, and made it look worse.)

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

So incur a huge new cost and eat a ton of profit. Sure.

Back when they 1st went Blu, they mentioned the cost of including both would be absorbed by the savings from not having to produce two different styles of packaging.