Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Mose Harper

It'll be worth the wait

Listening to it right now.

[eddievanhalen]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

And in off-topic news, the La-La-Land/Intrada CD box of the Star Trek: Motion Picture soundtrack still hasn't shipped. Grrr.

If you're talking about the La La Land Star Trek TMP 3 CD set that was released back in 2012 and there's also an 2 LP set release (which I also own) from 2016 that sounds outstanding.
If you are also talking about the new Superman The Movie 3 CD set from La La Land I also have it and it sounds great, it's the only release of the Superman soundtrack to use the first generation multitrack tapes from the recording sessions.
The trick with such important releases from La La Land is to PREORDER THEM from the La Land website and when release times is close be insistent with your order being shipped. I live in Spain and I got it right when it was released but I know of people in the US that didn't get their sets yet.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

If you're talking about the La La Land Star Trek TMP 3 CD set that was released back in 2012 and there's also an 2 LP set release (which I also own) from 2016 that sounds outstanding.
If you are also talking about the new Superman The Movie 3 CD set from La La Land I also have it and it sounds great, it's the only release of the Superman soundtrack to use the first generation multitrack tapes from the recording sessions.
The trick with such important releases from La La Land is to PREORDER THEM from the La Land website and when release times is close be insistent with your order being shipped. I live in Spain and I got it right when it was released but I know of people in the US that didn't get their sets yet.

I pounced on the Supes set, still waiting on ST:TMP set to ship.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Mocorongo

35mm film only available at 1080p which is a mere 10% of its original resolution?

In what universe?

The Donner Cut of II was very likely edited and finished in HD, so the master for it would only exist at 1920x1080.

A 4K release would mean either upscaling that master, or completely reconstructing the cut with new 4K scans of the original theatrical version and all of the extra scenes unique to that cut, and then recreating (or at least re-rendering) all of the new effects at the higher resolution. (Sort of like what was done for Star Trek: TNG, but at 4K.)

I could always be wrong, but I really don't see that happening.

[Mocorongo]

Superman II’s Donner Cut had additional scenes filmed in 2006, mixed into it. I mean the one Lois is typing at the end or the actor that appears to be Clark, saying “Lois, what have you done”. Among others such as the one with the S LOGO, after Superman is hit by a bus.

Do you want us to believe all of this was filmed with a cheap 2006 (and 1080p, of course) camera, and also most of the material used for that Donner Cut (that is also available for the theatrical version) isn’t available at much higher resolution? 4K is only HALF OF THE ORIGINAL RESOLUTION FROM A 35mm FILM, perhaps even less. It’s not even close if you think about 65mm.

I know this is Warner we are talking about, but even them are not THAT stupid. Remember about all additional scenes from Superman movies? Yep, they were only made available at 720x480 until NOW. And in very bad shape/quality. Superman IV for example only has the workprint, while in the TV edit we have the tornado and USSR scenes completed. That doesn’t mean these finished scenes do not exist or are limited to a laserdisc resolution, it’s just that Warner didn’t bother including them.

It took them decades to release the 3 hour cut for STM so it’s ridiculous to assume there are no more high quality versions out there. And BTW while the theatrical cut from II suffers from the same color issue as the sequels, its quality is much better than the current 1080p Blu-ray from the Richard Donner Cut.

When Warner stops being stingy you’ll see all of this available.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Mocorongo

4K is only HALF OF THE ORIGINAL RESOLUTION FROM A 35mm FILM, perhaps even less.

Maybe on Krypton, but here on Earth, under our relentless yellow sun, even the most ideal 35mm exposures are rarely going to yield more than 3K viewable spatial resolution.

[StrayButler91]

Originally Posted by BNex99

The Donner Cut of II was very likely edited and finished in HD, so the master for it would only exist at 1920x1080.

A 4K release would mean either upscaling that master, or completely reconstructing the cut with new 4K scans of the original theatrical version and all of the extra scenes unique to that cut, and then recreating (or at least re-rendering) all of the new effects at the higher resolution. (Sort of like what was done for Star Trek: TNG, but at 4K.)

I could always be wrong, but I really don't see that happening.

It should be at least 2K resolution, particularly since Warner anticipated theatrical screenings. Not that 2K and 1080p are that far removed, but 2K has slightly higher resolution and bit depth. But yeah, no chance it was finished photochemically, so your point stands.

And I don't see Warner splashing out the cash to bring the Donner Cut to 4K. It's locked to 2K. It's the equivalent of a DI from a 2006 movie.

[Mocorongo]

The Donner Cut looks bad because it was released 13 years ago, when Blu-ray was new. Expecting some sort of remastering on the same level of what is done today would be delusional. The whole thing looks baaad, even worse than Lester’s theatrical cut with that schizophrenic color grading. If they aren’t going to bring it in 4K at least do us a favor and make it look less bland.

I mentioned the deleted scenes from Superman movies because they have all been made available in DVD quality and with obvious signs of needing proper restoration, even in Blu-ray releases, which is shameful. For example, why Warner released 19 minutes from the extra scenes (edited for the TV version) of Superman 3 in 4:3 and SD quality? Was this movie shot that way or it’s just them being lazy again?

If this is the only available source why haven’t they done the same for II and IV? And why the 3 hour cut from STM in 1080p only? Or 1984’s Supergirl?

Am I the only one thinking they are sitting on many things either to release them later or due to not wanting to spend much on it? With TV shows I always heard excuses about companies not being able to re-release them in 1080p, and over the years everyone that said this was impossible was proven wrong.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Mocorongo

Superman II’s Donner Cut had additional scenes filmed in 2006, mixed into it. I mean the one Lois is typing at the end or the actor that appears to be Clark, saying “Lois, what have you done”. Among others such as the one with the S LOGO, after Superman is hit by a bus.

Do you want us to believe all of this was filmed with a cheap 2006 (and 1080p, of course) camera, and also most of the material used for that Donner Cut (that is also available for the theatrical version) isn’t available at much higher resolution? 4K is only HALF OF THE ORIGINAL RESOLUTION FROM A 35mm FILM, perhaps even less. It’s not even close if you think about 65mm.

I know this is Warner we are talking about, but even them are not THAT stupid. Remember about all additional scenes from Superman movies? Yep, they were only made available at 720x480 until NOW. And in very bad shape/quality. Superman IV for example only has the workprint, while in the TV edit we have the tornado and USSR scenes completed. That doesn’t mean these finished scenes do not exist or are limited to a laserdisc resolution, it’s just that Warner didn’t bother including them.

It took them decades to release the 3 hour cut for STM so it’s ridiculous to assume there are no more high quality versions out there. And BTW while the theatrical cut from II suffers from the same color issue as the sequels, its quality is much better than the current 1080p Blu-ray from the Richard Donner Cut.

When Warner stops being stingy you’ll see all of this available.

The issue isn't that the material isn't there - although it appears that the Donner cut was finished on a potato, as befits the shonky dollar-fifty VFX - it's whether they will do it all again in the 4K realm any time soon (see also: Star Trek The Motion Picture Director's Edition). I think we'll see a 4K HDR transfer of the theatrical cut of II well before a 4K of the Donner cut.

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Maybe on Krypton, but here on Earth, under our relentless yellow sun, even the most ideal 35mm exposures are rarely going to yield more than 3K viewable spatial resolution.

Yep. With the sharpest glass on the slowest stock shooting a test card in lab conditions which is oversampled at 6K/8K in the actual scanning then it can just about manage 4K, but in the real world? Nah.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The issue isn't that the material isn't there - although it appears that the Donner cut was finished on a potato, as befits the shonky dollar-fifty VFX - it's whether they will do it all again in the 4K realm any time soon. I think we'll see a 4K HDR transfer of the theatrical cut of II well before a 4K of the Donner cut.


Yep. With the sharpest glass on the slowest stock shooting a test card in lab conditions which is oversampled at 6K/8K in the actual scanning then it can just about manage 4K, but in the real world? Nah.

Exactly. Reminds me of the conversation over at AVS I looped you into a while back...where Madshi and Javs were insistent we needed 8K scanning for 35mm.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by StrayButler91

It should be at least 2K resolution, particularly since Warner anticipated theatrical screenings. Not that 2K and 1080p are that far removed, but 2K has slightly higher resolution and bit depth. But yeah, no chance it was finished photochemically, so your point stands.

And I don't see Warner splashing out the cash to bring the Donner Cut to 4K. It's locked to 2K. It's the equivalent of a DI from a 2006 movie.

I guess it could've been theatrical 2K. And there are some 2K films from 2006 that have been upscaled for UHD, so it's technically possible. But I doubt they'll go to the trouble (and the reconstruction idea is almost certainly out of the question).

Honestly, we were lucky to get it at all, let alone in HD. A few years earlier, and it might have been finished in standard def like the Director's Edition of Star Trek: TMP.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Mocorongo

The Donner Cut looks bad because it was released 13 years ago, when Blu-ray was new. Expecting some sort of remastering on the same level of what is done today would be delusional. The whole thing looks baaad, even worse than Lester’s theatrical cut with that schizophrenic color grading. If they aren’t going to bring it in 4K at least do us a favor and make it look less bland.

I mentioned the deleted scenes from Superman movies because they have all been made available in DVD quality and with obvious signs of needing proper restoration, even in Blu-ray releases, which is shameful. For example, why Warner released 19 minutes from the extra scenes (edited for the TV version) of Superman 3 in 4:3 and SD quality? Was this movie shot that way or it’s just them being lazy again?

If this is the only available source why haven’t they done the same for II and IV? And why the 3 hour cut from STM in 1080p only? Or 1984’s Supergirl?

Am I the only one thinking they are sitting on many things either to release them later or due to not wanting to spend much on it? With TV shows I always heard excuses about companies not being able to re-release them in 1080p, and over the years everyone that said this was impossible was proven wrong.

My biggest issue with Superman II theatrical BD is the damn contrast boosting.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Exactly. Reminds me of the conversation over at AVS I looped you into a while back...where Madshi and Javs were insistent we needed 8K scanning for 35mm.

Well, we do need oversampled scanning at the point of turning the analogue into the digital (exact same principle applies to mastering music at bit depths and ranges beyond human hearing), but what we don't need is 8K masters from 4/35 because there's nothing left for it to give.

[Jb162009]

Does the UK release have both the extended and theatrical release in 4K?

I've being trying to read through this thread and reviews on amazon UK and a review on amazon says US release does whilst UK release doesn't. But unsure on of they mean its not on both 4k & blu ray or just 4k.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Jb162009

Does the UK release have both the extended and theatrical release in 4K?

I've being trying to read through this thread and reviews on amazon UK and a review on amazon says US release does whilst UK release doesn't. But unsure on of they mean its not on both 4k & blu ray or just 4k.

I don't believe the extended cut was remastered in 4k this time.

[TXMoviebuff77]

Shame it’s not the extended version. Guess I’ll just wait for the inevitable box set release. I mean they did it for Batman right? Surprised Returns hasn’t gotten a 4K release. Not the best movie but certainly gorgeous to look at & sounded great on Blu.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by TXMoviebuff77

Shame it’s not the extended version. Guess I’ll just wait for the inevitable box set release. I mean they did it for Batman right? Surprised Returns hasn’t gotten a 4K release. Not the best movie but certainly gorgeous to look at & sounded great on Blu.

They might be waiting on the dust to settle over the whole Kevin Spacey thing. And Brian's public issues, too.

Dunno, I liked the film well enough, I'm sure we'll see it someday.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Maybe on Krypton, but here on Earth, under our relentless yellow sun, even the most ideal 35mm exposures are rarely going to yield more than 3K viewable spatial resolution.

Harris said great 35mm tops out at 6k.
4k is fine, after that you do not get a ton.

[TXMoviebuff77]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

They might be waiting on the dust to settle over the whole Kevin Spacey thing. And Brian's public issues, too.

Dunno, I liked the film well enough, I'm sure we'll see it someday.

You do have a point there.

[strumdogg]

I'm totally going to watch this now (after the fireworks).