Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[sapiendut]

From 4:4:4 to RGB is pure conversion, no upsampling done. The disc is 4:2:0, upsampled to 4:4:4, then converted to RGB

[eddievanhalen]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

From 4:4:4 to RGB is pure conversion, no upsampling done. The disc is 4:2:0, upsampled to 4:4:4, then converted to RGB

But when using the HDR Optimizer as it works with RGB video signal to be able todo its processing it has to do Chroma upsampling internally (the Panasonic player) from 4:2:0 to RGB, do the 36 bit (12 bits per primary color) HDR Optimizer does and then output most of us see on the on screen info as 4:4:4 it has to convert processed RGB back to component, 4:4:4 is component video, not RGB. When the 4:4:4 component signal coming from the Panasonic player is input into the TV set it has to be converted back as in the end, display panels only work with RGB video signal.
As far as I knowa 4:4:4 video signal is component, not RGB. I'm saying this from memory if I'm not mistaken the first number in 4:4:4 refers to luminance, the second ir Red minus Luminace and the Third one is Blue minus Luminace. That's not RGB,that's component video. RGB stands for the primaries set straight as Red, Green and Blue, syncronism pulses may be either sent on a different signal or inside one of the primaries signals.
All that is very basic video processing that I learnt back in the late 1990's on the early days of Digital TV, DVD and BD and despite de use of different codecs and HDR as far as I know this hasn't changed.

[sapiendut]

You are correct about that, but there is no upaampling/downsampling being done, only conversion. 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 or vice versa requires sampling. RGB to 4:4:4 and vice versa are merely mathematical conversion.

Both of us are talking about the same thing, actually.

[panasonicst60]

Any way to have Panasonic update firmware to be able to play Dolby Vision on a USB stick? Ryan just released a USB dv calibration and the player is unable to play it....

[Geoff D]

Hmmm. I see Ryan has chosen to encode the DV patterns in a streaming-type profile that uses ITP colour space, I'd rather have it in YCbCr so as to mimic the delivery of the format on disc (well, the MEL version anyway as his patterns are the single stream + metadata type).

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Not sure, but I do not expect any new models anytime soon. Here's why.

The UB9000 has not launched to any other retailers so the UB9000 has not been available to mass market yet.

I don't think they have any major upgrades that can't be managed with firmware updates. Of course, this gave me the opportunity to put in a reminder of my list of enhancement requests.

Hi Robert. Any chance Panasonic will fix Dolby Vision? What about having them add do Dolby Vision support to the USB input, so it can play dv files? Thanks!

[bferr1972]

What is the issue with Dolby Vision? Would like to upgrade from my LG 970, but the Sony 800M2 was eliminated from consideration due to its forced DV mode. So, the Panasonic 820 is the only other option for me, at the moment.

[Geoff D]

The Panny DV mode is brighter and it hard clips highlights as a result.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Panny DV mode is brighter and it hard clips highlights as a result.

Not on LG OLED.

I compared both UHD DV with iTunes DV and UHD HDR10 with iTunes DV and there was no difference in brightness, also no clipped highlights.

I wonder what's the reason of our (and Vinnie Teoh's) different experiences with Panny's player.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

You are correct about that, but there is no upaampling/downsampling being done, only conversion. 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 or vice versa requires sampling. RGB to 4:4:4 and vice versa are merely mathematical conversion.

Both of us are talking about the same thing, actually.

Be careful with this. You have to always take into account the display itself. Yes, whatever display it is will eventually get to RGB for display drivers (whether it is a flat panel or projector) but you don't know what color space they do THEIR video processing in (and there is ALWAYS something being done. So folks that say they should input 4:4:4 or RGB into a display to eliminate conversions don't necessarily know if the display is converting that all over again and going in 4:2:2 was actually better. That is why the patterns for chroma on the S&M disc are so good, he has patterns specifically to identify what is the best method.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Not on LG OLED.

I compared both UHD DV with iTunes DV and UHD HDR10 with iTunes DV and there was no difference in brightness, also no clipped highlights.

I wonder what's the reason of our (and Vinnie Teoh's) different experiences with Panny's player.

I could be wrong, but wasn't Vincent actually showing that effect on an LG OLED in the respective video?

Not ALL content will display the clipped highlights as they're only happening at far above the 1000-nit point. And depending on how things have been set up then you may be clipping out highlight information in the other playback methods you mention, hence there being no apparent difference with the Panny's DV playback.

[Mierzwiak]

You're right, the comparison in his UB9000 review was shown on LG OLED, I believe it was even the same as mine - B8.

But like I said before: it's Panny that's brighter or is it Oppo that's darker? If it's indeed Panny's fault and there's something wrong with its Dolby Vision playback, why streaming version looks the same?

[Geoff D]

It's not just about the brightness, it's the hard clipping of highlights too. Given ALL of the hoopla about Dolby Vision being this amazing system of downconversion you'd think that it would be able to display highlight information that's present on the HDR10 base layer.

If you have The Meg then that's a great one to test because there's some nutty 4000+ nit stuff in that. There's a shot in the conference room (early-ish, when they're debating how to get to the crippled sub) with bright bright skies visible through the windows behind them. Both the HDR10 layer and the OPPO's DV representation are able to reproduce all of the available information in the sky, but the Panny clips it hard.

[Mierzwiak]

OK, so maybe the overall brightness is not affected on DV titles with highlights limited to 1000 nits?

All my DV discs are like that so I can't check it :/

[evoll]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not just about the brightness, it's the hard clipping of highlights too. Given ALL of the hoopla about Dolby Vision being this amazing system of downconversion you'd think that it would be able to display highlight information that's present on the HDR10 base layer.

If you have The Meg then that's a great one to test because there's some nutty 4000+ nit stuff in that. There's a shot in the conference room (early-ish, when they're debating how to get to the crippled sub) with bright bright skies visible through the windows behind them. Both the HDR10 layer and the OPPO's DV representation are able to reproduce all of the available information in the sky, but the Panny clips it hard.

I had the same highlight clipping as well with this and a few other titles when using DV on my ub820 but like you geoff i use my oppo for DV titles now and the ub820 for hdr-10.

[Waboman]

The devil won... again. This time sent my angel to therapy.

Even double boxed FedEx was tough on my new Panny.

[Robert Zohn]

Oh wow, sorry for the rough treatment by Fed Ex! Glad we double box these beauties.

[PissedOffPeoN]

I got a new lg c9 oled and my Panasonic refuses to play hdr on it i got 2.1 compatibles cables and everything and it keeps switching to HDR to SDR from a 4k signal. I have the deep color mode activated and nothing... I just switched them over to my oppo 203 and they worked first try.. WTF Panasonic. I guess they need to firmware patch this.. anyone else having problems? Even tried reconnecting them.

[sapiendut]

I’m sorry, there is no such thing HDMI 2.1 cable. WTF Panasonic? I’ve calibrated multiple LG OLED connected to 820 and 9000. NONE of them had that problem.

[PissedOffPeoN]

Ya i know there is not but.. if its 48 gbps it least qualifies as one for now. After i watch the natural in 4k on my oppo 203 im going to use the lesser HDMI cables and see if it works. This is unacceptable that Panasonic didn't patch it for lg c9 tv though... 4K to sdr is hella lame lol. Oh well i will loose the hdr optimizer and slightly better picture quality but at least i get a 4K signal.