Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

So people should instead deal with the (much bigger) hassles and costs of getting fast internet?

It's absurd that you call buying a 4K Blu-ray player a hassle yet you have repeatedly stated that people should move, re-wire their house, or even petition their local government in order to get better internet access. How are any of those things a lesser hassle or a lower expense than a little bit of research and a one-time purchase of a 4K Blu-ray player?

People have to decide for themselves what is important. Discs are on the way out, and Quality is not measured in Bitrate alone. The Display and Player are Vidal to the Quality of the Video. If you look at the Hardware Thread Players are down to only a couple, and DV and HDR are all they talk about. You need a Test Disc to set everything up. I don't see that as a plus!

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

People have to decide for themselves what is important. Discs are on the way out, and Quality is not measured in Bitrate alone. The Display and Player are Vidal to the Quality of the Video. If you look at the Hardware Thread Players are down to only a couple, and DV and HDR are all they talk about. You need a Test Disc to set everything up. I don't see that as a plus!

It seems like far less of a hassle than having to contact and petition local government for faster internet. And having some means by which to properly calibrate your equipment is ideal, and test discs help with that. It's not like with streaming, your TV is just properly calibrated by default. You need some means by which to determine that.

I also don't understand your obsession with "discs are on their way out." I see them gradually becoming more niche, but I don't see them disappearing any time soon. And big blockbuster movies still sell very, very well on discs.

Besides, even if discs were to completely disappear in a few years in terms of new releases (which I highly doubt will happen), that's not going to prevent the discs that we have from still working.

And let's break this down further beyond just format, but specific content. I have discs in my collection of some movies and especially TV shows that were only printed for so long before going out of print, and in some cases to obtain them now on the secondary market would be quite expensive. Bare in mind that a good portion of these were purchased back when discs were at their height as a whole, but the content in question was still either more obscure or had a limited audience to sell it to.

If I were to follow your logic, since those titles were "on the way out" within a relatively short amount of time after being released, then I should have never bought those releases. I should have only bought really popular, mainstream content that will continue to be in print continuously for years to come. But it would have meant missing out on content that I enjoy and am glad to have in my collection. And a good chunk of that content isn't available through streaming.

But as it is, I have that content in my collection, and can watch it whenever I want. The fact that there are some shows and movies that are hard to come by now at affordable prices doesn't mean that I should never have bought them back when they were affordable or enjoy them.

Heck, as a gamer, and one who has rarely ever traded/sold anything off, I still have most game consoles and the games for them that I have ever purchased. Most are still in working condition. In a couple of cases I have had to buy replacement systems for one that stopped working or had some kind of issue.... but doing so wasn't too big of a problem as there are enough of them out there.

With video games, while the more recent system generations have gone on longer than ones in the past, it used to be that roughly every 5 years, the next generation of systems would be released. And while there would usually be a period where the previous consoles were still being sold along side the newest ones, it wouldn't generally be too long before they were discontinued.

So that means when it came to gaming, even if someone bought a system as soon as it first came out, they would maybe have about a 5 year period (give or take a year or so) before it's successor would come to the market. And that amount of time would be even less. Given that these systems would be "on their way out" in just a few years, no one should have bothered with them. But then they shouldn't bother with the next ones either since those would have a similar amount of time on the market before the next gen after that comes out.

Do you kind of see where your argument falls apart? If we followed your reasoning, we'd never enjoy most content outside of a relatively limited amount that wouldn't be "on the way out" in some form or another in the not too distant future.



Most of us here who buy physical media still use streaming to some extent or another, even if it is with a service like Netflix. But we don't like to buy specific movies and shows through digital distribution. And even with some of the best internet service, issues with streaming can and still do occur.

I'm not worried about suddenly being unable to watch my discs in the foreseeable future. Much like how I replaced a couple of older game consoles were it was necessary, I'm sure that with DVD now being around for well over 20 years, and Blu-Ray for well over 10 years, obtaining a working player in the future won't be too hard if the ones we have stop working. Heck, while it's only been around for 3 years now, the 4K disc format is already past the "half way point" of the time frames of how long those older game console generations last before the successors come out. So I have no doubts players for that will be reasonably easy to obtain.

Even for short lived formats like HD-DVD, players are available right now on ebay for affordable prices. So anyone with a decent sized collection of those discs can still easily play them if their player stops working and they want to be able to continue using the discs. And with that being the case, being able to watch movies on the more mainstream formats will be nothing to worry about.

So, even if discs are "on their way out," as you put it (which again, I argue that they will become more niche and not disappear - look at the niche resurgence of vinyl records for comparison), it won't be hard to play the ones that we have. And we'll still be able to stream whatever content is available via streaming come that time, so your point is completely moot.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Meanwhile all of us with physical collections will have old, outdated, but completely functional technology. None of our discs or players require continued support of the studios, distributors, or manufacturers to function.

Nothing last forever, tell that to the Oppo people, they are looking for Firmware updates for some of their failed Discs. When a Manufacturer stops support for their Hardware, unless you fix it yourself, that Hardware will fail. Technology waits for no one!

[Dynamo of Eternia]

While I understand people who were into Oppo products being disappointed at the discontinuation of their Blu-Ray and 4K players, the larger point is that there are still plenty of other players to play those discs on if for some reason maintaining their Oppo players or finding reasonably priced replacements on the secondary market becomes too much of a problem.

Panasonic is making some nice, higher end players these days.


Also, with regards to firmware updates, those are easy enough to find a work-around for, even if the company that made the product no longer hosts the firmware updates for download, those are easy enough for people to back up and host elsewhere for those who need it to get it. A single firmware update file is far easier to worry about obtaining "unofficially" than a lot of purchased digital movie and TV content that disappears.


I also wonder how necessary firmware updates even are these days. I'm sure they still update some features, but this was more of an issue in the early days of Blu-Ray when the format, itself, was still evolving (i.e. the edition of BD-J/BD Live after the format had launched), requiring firmware updates just to play discs at all.

These days this isn't as much of an issue. While firmware updates may enhance and improve some aspects of how the player works, these days it usually doesn't prevent the discs from simply working at all if you don't update it. And even a non-updated player that can play the discs is likely offering much better picture and especially much better sound than any streaming options do.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Technology waits for no one!

You make a door knob look smart.

[Vilya]

I am not up to an extended discussion, but I have to respond to a few of alchav's statements.

Discs are not "on the way out"; sales of them, generally, are in decline, but the vast majority of that decline is due to steep drops in dvd sales. Discs will, at the worst, become a niche market, but a viable market nonetheless.

There are MANY 4K disc players on the market, not just "a couple", and they are offered across a wide range of prices. Sony, LG, Philips, Panasonic, and Pioneer all offer 4K players and most of them offer more than one model.

You do not need a test disc to use a 4K disc player; they are used with a 4K disc player to calibrate your 4K TV thereby optimizing the 4K TV's performance with ALL video sources, not just playback from discs. Similar test discs, used on a blu-ray player, were offered to calibrate 1080p TVs before them. They are nice to have, but they are entirely optional.

Discs are not uniquely failing to play on Oppos. Some recent 4K discs are problematic, but they are problematic on every brand of player. Oppo is still supporting their 4K players with firmware updates, and warranty service, as needed.

All of my older disc players, such as my Oppo 93, have long ceased to receive firmware updates, but they continue to play flawlessly. Even my 1997 Pioneer Laserdisc player is still working fine.

The hardware, and the discs played with them, endure quite well. As someone who has collected physical media for well over 30 years I can attest to this fact. I still own, and can still play, every physical format that I have ever purchased.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

They are looking for firmware updates for the discs that previously worked on their players? The players stopped playing old discs? Every disc that already works on my players will continue to work on those players (and other similar players) for many decades.

What will do when technology has moved on past digital purchases and none of your Vudu, iTunes, or Sony Ultra movie collections works anymore?

Technology has already moved on from digital purchase and much faster than music downloads did. Subscription streaming is the new king for digital lovers.

[cheez avenger]

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Technology has already moved on from digital purchase and much faster than music downloads did. Subscription streaming is the new king for digital lovers.

Nah. Unlike music, you still have to wait 5-6 months before a title is available on a subscription service

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

Nah. Unlike music, you still have to wait 5-6 months before a title is available on a subscription service

Which people are doing. Us film fanatics are the minority. Once modern audiences see it at the cinema, I think they are happy to wait. Also, do t forget, Netflix, Disney, Apple and Amazon are going to be releasing new films straight to their service in the near future. (Some already are)

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Which people are doing. Us film fanatics are the minority. Once modern audiences see it at the cinema, I think they are happy to wait. Also, do t forget, Netflix, Disney, Apple and Amazon are going to be releasing new films straight to their service in the near future. (Some already are)

Hey guys I was looking at Vudu today, and they have Early Releases and in Theaters Now before DVD. So you can start watching Movies way before they come out on Disc. That is one of the great perks of Streaming, that you can watch stuff in an instant. These Streaming Providers are not messing around....You want something we will show it to you right now!

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey guys I was looking at Vudu today, and they have Early Releases and in Theaters Now before DVD. So you can start watching Movies way before they come out on Disc. That is one of the great perks of Streaming, that you can watch stuff in an instant. These Streaming Providers are not messing around....You want something we will show it to you right now!

Exactly. And if you're finicky or OCD, you can also buy the disc/digital combo and get instant access to the content. In fact, you'll be getting an additional copy of the digital version included with your hardcopy purchase.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Exactly. And if you're finicky or OCD, you can also buy the disc/digital combo and get instant access to the content. In fact, you'll be getting an additional copy of the digital version included with your hardcopy purchase.

Yes, sometimes you can get Disc+Digital but this time it was only Digital no Discs.

[Vilya]

If I was that anxious to see a specific movie, I would have seen it at the actual theater on the biggest screen and with the most awesome sound available in my region.

Cable TV offered on demand viewing of early release titles long before Vudu ever did and even before Vudu even existed. Nothing new about this at all.

I can easily wait for the physical release, buy the movie once, and get it both on disc and with a digital code. I certainly have no need for two digital codes and I can not be bothered to sell any unwanted codes.

I seldom even bother to redeem the codes that I already have. Out of all my collection, I have only redeemed about 134 codes total; I just don't have much interest in messing with them. I have not even watched any of these redeemed digital copies, either, as I have the superior disc available.

With nearly 8000 titles in my collection now across all formats, it is not like I can't find anything to watch until the next new hot movie gets released on disc. I often receive more new discs in a given month than I get around to watching as it is. Waiting a little longer to get a physical copy is no hardship and I get the best of both disc and digital code when I do.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If I was that anxious to see a specific movie, I would have seen it at the actual theater on the biggest screen and with the most awesome sound available in my region.

Cable TV offered on demand viewing of early release titles long before Vudu ever did and even before Vudu even existed. Nothing new about this at all.

I can easily wait for the physical release, buy the movie once, and get it both on disc and with a digital code. I certainly have no need for two digital codes and I can not be bothered to sell any unwanted codes.

I seldom even bother to redeem the codes that I already have. Out of all my collection, I have only redeemed about 134 codes total; I just don't have much interest in messing with them. I have not even watched any of these redeemed digital copies, either, as I have the superior disc available.

With nearly 8000 titles in my collection now across all formats, it is not like I can't find anything to watch until the next new hot movie gets released on disc. I often receive more new discs in a given month than I get around to watching as it is. Waiting a little longer to get a physical copy is no hardship and I get the best of both disc and digital code when I do.

If you ever want to donate your digital codes to the cause, please do not hesitate to send them my way. I will gladly make use and get enjoyment out them.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Exactly. And if you're finicky or OCD, you can also buy the disc/digital combo and get instant access to the content. In fact, you'll be getting an additional copy of the digital version included with your hardcopy purchase.

You guys are hilarious. Quality be dammed, give it me now. Not the Steedeel way. Never will be. I have a deep rooted love of cinema and while the finest presentation exists, I’m all over that. I don’t and won’t sacrifice quality. Good things come to those that wait.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You guys are hilarious. Quality be dammed, give it me now. Not the Steedeel way. Never will be. I have a deep rooted love of cinema and while the finest presentation exists, I’m all over that. I don’t and won’t sacrifice quality. Good things come to those that wait.

Streaming Quality keeps getting better, now they are working on a new Codec VVC (Versatile Video Coding) to bring 8K Quality Streaming down to 40Mbps. It's not about more Bitrate, but Quality Bitrate. Also if you are going to wait for some Movies and TV Shows in Disc, your going to be waiting a long time because it's not coming!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming Quality keeps getting better, now they are working on a new Codec VVC (Versatile Video Coding) to bring 8K Quality Streaming down to 40Mbps. It's not about more Bitrate, but Quality Bitrate. Also if you are going to wait for some Movies and TV Shows in Disc, your going to be waiting a long time because it's not coming!

Don’t be silly.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming Quality keeps getting better, now they are working on a new Codec VVC (Versatile Video Coding) to bring 8K Quality Streaming down to 40Mbps. It's not about more Bitrate, but Quality Bitrate. Also if you are going to wait for some Movies and TV Shows in Disc, your going to be waiting a long time because it's not coming!

And they don't need to. If it's not worth the bother to put on disc, it's probably not something people will be anxiously waiting to see anyway. And if they do want to see it, they won't be averse to watch it on streaming if that's the only way to see it. (at least I won't). There is very little that I want to see that doesn't make it to disc.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming Quality keeps getting better

Only in your in mind!!! And streaming is totally all about bit rates. The streaming providers want the lowest bit rates possible for a given quality level. This has been referenced and explained to you on several occasions.

I know you have a learning and retention disability, why don't you state what it is and post here. If you can not do it then have someone else do it for you. There is no shame in it!!