Birds of Prey (2020)

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by miribeau

No. However, some people are forgetting that we are discussing a specific film, from multiple angles, covering topics of interest and concern, including alterations to character and wardrobe.

We are not discussing, and are not meant to be discussing, how certain women on this board or, indeed, anywhere in the world, might feel about men looking at them, specifically, because they are not actresses in this film. I think sometimes people here forget that they are not the actors in question, when evaluating things like costume choices.

I would like to remind everyone that, unless you are the actress on the screen, who has signed a contract promising to use her voice and physical body to make money for a studio, we are not discussing you nor is anyone attempting to objectify you.

PLEASE, again, let's try to keep this thread on the topic of this specific film. I remain very interested in what people think about this new version of Harley, the direction the film is taking, your desire or lack thereof to see this film, and so on. I happen to care about the DC franchise and want to see it succeed but I am concerned about what they are doing here and genuinely find your opinions on the topic of this film to be interesting. So, let's try to keep this on topic and save political discussions for political forums.

I'm a bit behind on the DC movies. The last one I watched was Suicide Squad. What I'd like to see is how the average moviegoer will respond to DC juggling all these different movies. Joker, the new Batman, Birds of Prey and the continuing DCEU with Wonder Woman etc. Audiences are used to reboots but to be rebooting big characters whilst still continuing with your movie universe is very unique.

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I'm a bit behind on the DC movies. The last one I watched was Suicide Squad. What I'd like to see is how the average moviegoer will respond to DC juggling all these different movies. Joker, the new Batman, Birds of Prey and the continuing DCEU with Wonder Woman etc. Audiences are used to reboots but to be rebooting big characters whilst still continuing with your movie universe is very unique.

I'm an average moviegoer and while I can't vouch for Suicide Squad, since I haven't seen it yet, but I can say that DC's juggling act makes no difference to me as long as it's something that separates itself from the MCU assembly line and present something unique. The new Joker is the best example. That's one I'm looking forward to when it opens and will check out Shazam when it hits Blu-Ray.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I'm a bit behind on the DC movies. The last one I watched was Suicide Squad. What I'd like to see is how the average moviegoer will respond to DC juggling all these different movies. Joker, the new Batman, Birds of Prey and the continuing DCEU with Wonder Woman etc. Audiences are used to reboots but to be rebooting big characters whilst still continuing with your movie universe is very unique.

I would think the Average movie goes, does not frequent message boards. Or are aware of the various incarnations of these movies. So they will either embrace it based on word of mouth, or will skip it and wait for home viewing.

I am leaning more towards skipping it and waiting for home viewing.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

I'm an average moviegoer and while I can't vouch for Suicide Squad, since I haven't seen it yet, but I can say that DC's juggling act makes no difference to me as long as it's something that separates itself from the MCU assembly line and present something unique. The new Joker is the best example. That's one I'm looking forward to when it opens and will check out Shazam when it hits Blu-Ray.

The Phoenix Joker film is another good example of reinvention with appeal. Unfortunately, the company is looking for an interconnected universe, of the kind Marvel has created. When the film was announced and described, with that very French style, which is what that actor really knows how to do, I thought it would be wonderful to see the different Jokers, believing that the younger, Leto Joker would continue in the Robbie series and this significantly older Joker would stand alone. Actually, the actor isn't as old as they wanted him to look in the film and they went out of their way to age him, rather than using makeup to make him look younger, so he is quite unique, as compared to the recent Jokers and the circulating photos look quite good.

However, they seem to be writing Joker into this solid, sad-crazy-clown genre, with that classic look, as a gateway to doing it that way permanently. That makes me nervous, given how well Leto and Robbie fit together in the more modern version. I would love to see the Phoenix version with a Harley in the red and black catsuit/cap combo, to complete the picture. I don't see why they can't just do both versions, the older version with older actors and the younger version with the slightly younger (or at least younger looking), hipper cast, if that makes sense.

When it comes to this specific Harley vehicle, it doesn't seem to have that kind of appeal. A film of women all ditching men and saving the day, while self-actualizing isn't so much reinvention as a rehashing of so much of what people talk about on the news. Where this alternative Joker is seeking to distinguish and break away a bit, to seek a slightly different ground, Birds seems to be seeking to be more mainstream and cover the same ground as so many Diane Keaton rom-coms, without the romantic comedy angle.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by mwynn

I would think the Average movie goes, does not frequent message boards. Or are aware of the various incarnations of these movies. So they will either embrace it based on word of mouth, or will skip it and wait for home viewing.

I am leaning more towards skipping it and waiting for home viewing.

Considering how popular comic book movies are I'm sure the audience will eventually know about these titles, maybe not right now in the development/filming of the movie, but when the trailer hits for the new Batman etc, there might be a few wondering what happened to Affleck.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by miribeau

The Phoenix Joker film is another good example of reinvention with appeal. Unfortunately, the company is looking for an interconnected universe, of the kind Marvel has created. When the film was announced and described, with that very French style, which is what that actor really knows how to do, I thought it would be wonderful to see the different Jokers, believing that the younger, Leto Joker would continue in the Robbie series and this significantly older Joker would stand alone. Actually, the actor isn't as old as they wanted him to look in the film and they went out of their way to age him, rather than using makeup to make him look younger, so he is quite unique, as compared to the recent Jokers and the circulating photos look quite good.

However, they seem to be writing Joker into this solid, sad-crazy-clown genre, with that classic look, as a gateway to doing it that way permanently. That makes me nervous, given how well Leto and Robbie fit together in the more modern version. I would love to see the Phoenix version with a Harley in the red and black catsuit/cap combo, to complete the picture. I don't see why they can't just do both versions, the older version with older actors and the younger version with the slightly younger (or at least younger looking), hipper cast, if that makes sense.

When it comes to this specific Harley vehicle, it doesn't seem to have that kind of appeal. A film of women all ditching men and saving the day, while self-actualizing isn't so much reinvention as a rehashing of so much of what people talk about on the news. Where this alternative Joker is seeking to distinguish and break away a bit, to seek a slightly different ground, Birds seems to be seeking to be more mainstream and cover the same ground as so many Diane Keaton rom-coms, without the romantic comedy angle.

I think Birds of Prey will be a hit. It appeals to everyone imo, those wanting a feminist driven movie and those who are looking for a movie with eye candy (the mileage for the latter group will vary of course), but I think estimates of its failure here are a bit premature. I personally just want a fun movie, if the filmmakers social agenda gets in the way then that'd be a shame, but I don't care if they're fully clothed or half nude, as long as the movie is good.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

Considering how popular comic book movies are I'm sure the audience will eventually know about these titles, maybe not right now in the development/filming of the movie, but when the trailer hits for the new Batman etc, there might be a few wondering what happened to Affleck.

I'll be wondering that for the rest of my life. I had gotten used to him, then actually liked him in the role, and I'm not going to live forever. I can't say I understand firing an actor with genuine directing talent, of the kind that can aid him in setting one heck of a scene, improving on anything he is asked to do.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I think Birds of Prey will be a hit.

With a $75m budget and a release just a week before Valentine's Day this is going to be a very profitable film for WB. Not only will it open well, but it'll probably have a smaller than usual drop as couples go see it the 2nd weekend.

Look at what is coming out around it and it should be the clear box office winner among the releases a few weeks ahead and after it.

• Limited Partners (Par.) - 1/10
• Underwater (Fox) - 1/10
• Bad Boys for Life (Sony) - 1/17
• Just Mercy (WB) - 1/17
• The Voyage of Doctor Dolittle (Uni.) - 1/17
• Run (2020) (LG/S) - 1/24
• The Turning (Uni.) - 1/24
• Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) (WB) - 2/7
• Peter Rabbit 2 (Sony) - 2/7
• The Photograph (Uni.) - 2/14
• Sonic The Hedgehog (Par.) - 2/14
• Untitled Kingsman Movie (Fox) - 2/14
• Bloodshot (Sony) - 2/21
• The Call of the Wild (Fox) - 2/21

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I think Birds of Prey will be a hit. It appeals to everyone imo, those wanting a feminist driven movie and those who are looking for a movie with eye candy (the mileage for the latter group will vary of course), but I think estimates of its failure here are a bit premature. I personally just want a fun movie, if the filmmakers social agenda gets in the way then that'd be a shame, but I don't care if they're fully clothed or half nude, as long as the movie is good.

Depends on what is considered a hit $75 cost and making $500M? Sure. Especially for an R Rated movie.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by captveg

With a $75m budget and a release just a week before Valentine's Day this is going to be a very profitable film for WB. Not only will it open well, but it'll probably have a smaller than usual drop as couples go see it the 2nd weekend.

Look at what is coming out around it and it should be the clear box office winner among the releases a few weeks ahead and after it.

• Limited Partners (Par.) - 1/10
• Underwater (Fox) - 1/10
• Bad Boys for Life (Sony) - 1/17
• Just Mercy (WB) - 1/17
• The Voyage of Doctor Dolittle (Uni.) - 1/17
• Run (2020) (LG/S) - 1/24
• The Turning (Uni.) - 1/24
• Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) (WB) - 2/7
• Peter Rabbit 2 (Sony) - 2/7
• The Photograph (Uni.) - 2/14
• Sonic The Hedgehog (Par.) - 2/14
• Untitled Kingsman Movie (Fox) - 2/14
• Bloodshot (Sony) - 2/21
• The Call of the Wild (Fox) - 2/21

Peter Rabbit is likely to garner a nice audience. I'm assuming the Kingsman Prequel will make a large sum, and be more of an attractant for the kind of girl-power audience that might not want to see Birds, once discussion gets going as to who Harley is actually supposed to be. Then you'll have the kind of girl-power violence-fantasy oriented women who will want to see Birds.... But Bloodshot, that's just got everything doesn't it? Bloodshot will make a really nice chunk of change, given the combination of the lead actor (Vin's films do well, typically), it being an action oriented comic film, it starring the seductress from Westworld and it starring the main male-attraction from Outlander. Men will want to see if for that particular woman or because VD is quite good at doing all things action-film. Women will flock to this film, just to see Mr. Outlander, at least every woman I know. I'll see it for Vin, just to watch him kick some you-know-what.

I don't know. I'm not sure Birds wins that contest.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by miribeau

Peter Rabbit is likely to garner a nice audience. I'm assuming the Kingsman Prequel will make a large sum, and be more of an attractant for the kind of girl-power audience that might not want to see Birds, once discussion gets going as to who Harley is actually supposed to be. Then you'll have the kind of girl-power violence-fantasy oriented women who will want to see Birds.... But Bloodshot, that's just got everything doesn't it? Bloodshot will make a really nice chunk of change, given the combination of the lead actor (Vin's films do well, typically), it being an action oriented comic film, it starring the seductress from Westworld and it starring the main male-attraction from Outlander. Men will want to see if for that particular woman or because VD is quite good at doing all things action-film. Women will flock to this film, just to see Mr. Outlander, at least every woman I know. I'll see it for Vin, just to watch him kick some you-know-what.

I don't know. I'm not sure Birds wins that contest.

Bloodshot is coming out later though and as mentioned the Valentine weekend will be profitable for Birds of Prey.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

Bloodshot is coming out later though and as mentioned the Valentine weekend will be profitable for Birds of Prey.

Of course it will be profitable. It's a question of whether it will come close to what the original-concept Harley could have banked, as a draw, for the film audience. I'm not sure "new" Harley has the same draw, especially when added to the overall females-only vibe. If I were a man, I wouldn't see a film about all women, only women, for women, etc., and absolutely would assume it is a "chick flick", no matter how many people involved with the film claim that it's not.

Of course I'm waiting to see the official long trailers and all of that but, given what we saw in the official T6 trailer, girl-power run wild, running right over Arnold Schwarzenegger, I'm not sure if this film isn't doing the same thing with the Harley/Joker scenario. Adding a film sequence with Joker, only filmed from behind, for the purpose of the big breakup and explanation of Harley's sudden desire to be a hero, only adds to the concern that this film could end up derailing this portion of the franchise, meaning the Harley/Joker Mad Love film they delayed, in order to make this film, would be written off the list.

As an aside, who thought this was a Valentine's Day appropriate film? Maybe they included her love affair with Poison Ivy?

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

Depends on what is considered a hit $75 cost and making $500M? Sure. Especially for an R Rated movie.

The question is whether they will go through with the R rating.

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I think Birds of Prey will be a hit. It appeals to everyone imo, those wanting a feminist driven movie and those who are looking for a movie with eye candy (the mileage for the latter group will vary of course), but I think estimates of its failure here are a bit premature. I personally just want a fun movie, if the filmmakers social agenda gets in the way then that'd be a shame, but I don't care if they're fully clothed or half nude, as long as the movie is good.

I'm not sure that anyone was estimating its failure but the concern is whether the social platform will be placed above making a good, fun movie as the people just want to be entertained.

[scifisuperfan]

I can predict now that Suicide Squad > Birds of Prey without going to the Unpopular thread.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by miribeau

Of course it will be profitable. It's a question of whether it will come close to what the original-concept Harley could have banked, as a draw, for the film audience. I'm not sure "new" Harley has the same draw, especially when added to the overall females-only vibe. If I were a man, I wouldn't see a film about all women, only women, for women, etc., and absolutely would assume it is a "chick flick", no matter how many people involved with the film claim that it's not.

Of course I'm waiting to see the official long trailers and all of that but, given what we saw in the official T6 trailer, girl-power run wild, running right over Arnold Schwarzenegger, I'm not sure if this film isn't doing the same thing with the Harley/Joker scenario. Adding a film sequence with Joker, only filmed from behind, for the purpose of the big breakup and explanation of Harley's sudden desire to be a hero, only adds to the concern that this film could end up derailing this portion of the franchise, meaning the Harley/Joker Mad Love film they delayed, in order to make this film, would be written off the list.

As an aside, who thought this was a Valentine's Day appropriate film? Maybe they included her love affair with Poison Ivy?

I don't think the feminist stuff will keep people away because they might not even be aware of it. So it wouldn't really make much difference which character traits Harley has. People who want to see Margot Robbie in the role will go regardless. There might be folks who just aren't interested in a female superhero movie and might not watch it for that reason. But I think the amount of people who are aware of the feminist agenda and decide not to bother with it will be quite small. Of course, once everyone watches the movie then there might be a lot more people annoyed with the changes but by that point they've already handed over their cash

[wallendo]

Margot Robbie did a great job as Harley Quinn, a great job as Tonya Harding, and did well in Wolf of Wall Street.
Looking at her IMDB page, she is future Harley Quinn roles in Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad, "Untitled Joker/Harley Quinn project", and Gotham City sirens. Warner Brothers needs to decide who and what Harley Quinn is and be consistent. I would hope that this character is not ruined by changing personality from movie to movie. Unfortunately, Warner's track history with DC films has been to exploit, not develop, its characters.

[imsounoriginal]

Best thing DC can do is not worry about continuity and just use the character in whatever way works best for each individual movie. MCU gets away with it all the time (i.e. Banner's ability to control the Hulk varies from movie to movie) and no one bats an eye.

In other words: continuity is overrated. Just make good movies.

[Erzengel]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Best thing DC can do is not worry about continuity and just use the character in whatever way works best for each individual movie. MCU gets away with it all the time (i.e. Banner's ability to control the Hulk varies from movie to movie) and no one bats an eye.

In other words: continuity is overrated. Just make good movies.

I feel that the Banner/Hulk transformation is kind of easy to understand.

In TIH, by the end of the movie, he's mastered transforming into the Hulk at will as shown later in the Avengers. However, the trick has always been transforming back into Banner which is why he needed Natasha in AOU and shown again in Ragnarok. IW introduced the wrinkle that the Hulk was actually scared for a change which prevented Banner from turning into the Hulk. In Endgame Banner combines him with the Hulk. I really don't see this as a continuity issue.

[moviegeek1992]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Best thing DC can do is not worry about continuity and just use the character in whatever way works best for each individual movie. MCU gets away with it all the time (i.e. Banner's ability to control the Hulk varies from movie to movie) and no one bats an eye.

In other words: continuity is overrated. Just make good movies.

Continuity for movies is not needed, but for characters it is important. Look at the X-Men films, they're all over the place in terms of continuity but the characters, especially Wolverine is consistent in his personality throughout the series. Changing Harley movie to movie might be fine the first time around but afterwards the fanbase for that character will be careful approaching future installments as they wont be sure if it'll be an incarnation of Harley they would like or loathe.